help needed

[Anonymous]

just to say this form is the best form i,ve been on it not crap some stuff on here is

Unknowen,
Always be mindful of your spelling and punctuation.It is difficult for us to understand what you are trying to say,and it what context it is being said in,if we cannot understand what you are typing.

 

[ReapHer_6]

Just a thought. Once I read a discussion on a board (before I found this one). The discussion was about weather posting the information concerning the recovery and refining was a good idea (safe for the public or not). I read both sides. I stood on the fence and just lurked. I will not go over the discussion here, but one comment rang out and it translates (well I think) to the common question peolpe ask here.

People seem to pop on to this forum and ask for the "way to get gold off *what ever*" all the time. Many times members here try to explain to them the complexity concerning recovery and refining. I can only imagine your guys pain and the "oh, no here we go again" feeling... They see gold on memory chips and want to recover it and make money (which is logical)....Then there is the board that is so tired of this question.

The new member probably thinks everyone is stuffy or just mean as they have no ide the complexity of ther question and the tiring nature of trying to answer this question just about every day... I think this comment sums it up pretty well.

A fireman in the discussion I mentioned above said something like, Your question is like asking a fireman to give out the steps to putting out a major fire in your house. It is impossible. Each fire has it's set of variables, and each needs different sets of tools, and tactics..

For some reason I liked his analogy. Trying to answer a new members question of show me the way is... impossible. The variables are too great. I don't know if any of this helped, but for me the fireman gave me a way to answer the interested friends and family when they ask .. hey how do you do it? I don't want to act better then them or put them down, but I can't begin to explain it either.

Ok, Time to get focused on work.

Good Day all.

John S.

 

[butcher]

ReapHer_6,
Good post,
We just need to remind them that firemen train hard to do their job, they spending time studying, and get help learning from veteran firefighters.

It would be foolish to run into a burning building without some idea of what is in there, and how to deal with the fire and the dangers involved in that fire.

Here we seem to get people who jump into the building, and then yell help,
You try to help them out and they are so confused by the smoke (color of gold), they do not understand the complexity of the situation, think they already know the way out, and want you to tell them what they want to hear, it is hard to direct them out of the burning building when the will not listen, do not understand enough to know what your telling them and continue with trying to do what they think best without even wanting to follow directions, to make things worse, you can pull them from the fire and they run right back in to the burning building thinking they can do it better if they get back in there without even listening to you tell them they need to spend time learning about the fire, the dangers and the building.

Sometimes I fell pulling new members from the fire takes the resources of the firefighters from helping each other learn, but then again sometimes we all learn watching another new member burn himself.

John I like reading your posts, they are very insightful from my point of view.

The other day I was tired, and really did not have the time to spend (I should have to help anybody here), I quickly read a question you posted on aqua regia, I almost started to try and give you answer in my view of the problem, I was glad I did not, as I did not read your question close enough and thought you had made the same mistakes most all new members make, another member gave advice, and then I reread your original post and notice things in it I missed, the first time I read it (I then seen you did not make the newbie mistakes) so here we get so used to answering the same old question I almost (or did assume) you were just another newbie in a burning building, until on second reading I could see you have been doing your homework, and actually knew something about these fires.

 

[nickvc]

I'll assume that when you say some of the stuff posted is rubbish its because you either don't understand it or because the response is along the lines of read HOKE, have you read HOKE or use the search function.
We aren't trying to be clever or awkward just trying desperately to point new members onto the right path to them understanding that recovery and refining using highly dangerous chemicals and some fairly complicated processes isn't a set in stone process, there can be variables to the norm and frequently are depending on exactly what is in the mix your trying to recover/ refine.
By reading and studying you start to see just how huge a subject this really is, by doing set processes in the accepted way can avoid a headache and a loss of values, by throwing whole circuit boards into AR is almost guaranteed to give give you mess you will come to regard with desperation as no gold will appear, various slimes and compounds will form that make filtering a nightmare and the amount of acids used will be way out of proportion to what should be used and the storage and safe disposal is even worse.
If you come to the forum hoping to get rich from a few boards and a couple of mobile phones I'm afraid your going to be very disappointed, even if you have a thousand towers and a box full of phones if you don't process them correctly your going to spend more on chemicals and in time than you can recover economically.
Refining e scrap has to viewed as a hobby, maybe if your skilful and diligent, a paying one but to make real money you need volumes and the skills to know how to process them, what to sell on, what to cherry pick and how to refine the parts you have separated.
I will honestly say I'm no expert on e scrap but there are many I would regard as such on the forum and their skills and knowledge are freely available for all but reading and research is needed to access this goldmine. Give yourself 10 years plus and you may know a fraction of this subject and be aware of how much more there is to learn.

 

[kurt]

first off thanks all for replies im not being sarcastic to no one or try to be mister know it all im just tired of diiging throu pages and not finding what i want.. ive been a member for about a month and done nothing but reading and still so many pages to read with that said i have a base knowlage of the hazardes and fumes i am not doing this in my kitchen im smarter than that not much more but that smart..im seeking info from people who have done this prosses and how they got their best results for getting gold from motherboards and ect...

UnKnOwEn4:20) - Having read this entire tread - It is clear to me that you are just another person that has heard about the gold in electronic's & like so many of those other people you "just want the GOLD" --- but you don't really want to "LEARN" all of what you need to do to get it. - You "want" it to be something that is "quick & easy"

Well - I am sorry - but it is NOT something that is quick & easy - sooooo - it does not matter how much you may want the quick & easy answer - you are not going to get it - BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST (caps to make point clear - not yelling)

If you want to get quick easy gold from electronic's - I would suggest that you go to boardsort.com - they pay a "very good" price for electronic boards - then take the money you get selling your boards to them & go buy some gold with it.

Kurt

 

[ReapHer_6]

After reading the last 2 posts I want to chime in. I am a new member. I think everyone here had close to the same idea when they started. What separated the rock stars from the groupies is time, dedication, tenacity, and I will even venture to say smarts....

I started my computer repair business 12 years ago. I saw the gold and knew one day I will be in the position to recover it. I did not know how, but I was determined to do it. Even my partner said I was nutz. I saved every single circuit containing board that was headed for the landfill. About half way through my journey I decided I was going to order a kit of chemicals from a certain dealer that we are all know here (so I won’t name the company). I bought some glassware, and snuck into the basement. Well I d@mn near killed myself and my growing family. Luckily they were not home at the time. I shelved the idea until I could "school up".

This year I sold off the residential side of my business (yes I still get their boards . This allowed me to focus only on my corporate clients and afforded me the time and some funds (and a new facility) to begin dedicating to recovering and processing e scrap.

I have spent hundreds of hours (really) in this forum reading. I printed Hokes book, and purchased GSP's - PDF's. I purchased some glassware. I zeroed in on the key players here and read everything I could find that they posted..I watched all of Sam's videos, and scoured Steve's site. I then started collecting the chemicals. I was astounded by the hundreds of items you need to stock a VERY SMALL lab. Pipettes, filtering, smelting, Glass.... Not to mention the time and engineering of tools to aid in reduction, fume scrubbing, safety gear. Then, and only then did I revisit the notion of reclaiming the gold. Since I have started I have closed in on 1/2 oz of recovered Au. I am sure I have lost way more than I have recovered, probably 3 times as much. I have spilled stuff, I have exploded (ok instantly vaporized) solutions. I have dropped samples. I have broken crucibles with my small amount of values. I even boiled off a great batch and after wiping up my area did I realize how much of the values were on my paper towels.. I have had 1 or 2 accidents that only because of this forum did I not hurt anyone including myself. I consider myself relatively smart. One day I had a massive boil over and that would have been bad enough but because of my scrubber design the values and acids were sucked throughout the entire scrubbing system virtually shutting me down for days and stinking up the place.

Only now, after I finally got a fume hood (Thanks to Harold's persistence) am I able to make good mistakes, like precip problems and what to do with this precip or that filter... I am still losing values. (D@mn it sucks, but after all without the proper chemical education the only thing one can do it is to put in the time.) At least now most of the losses are sent to the stock pot for cementing with copper. I guess what I am saying here is I am a newbee with some intelligence, some funds (small, amounts) some time, a dedicated small lab, a gathering of the basic supplies, and safety gear. It has been a long journey. I have 1/2 oz to show for it... think about it. At today’s spot price of est. 1700.00, I have.. $850.00??

I have literally tons of scrap. Some ultra high military grade missile board quality. I look at them often, but I am NO WHERE NEAR "schooled up" for the task. Hell, at this rate I would lose 3x what I would recover. The only really correct thing I have accomplished in refining is that I did follow directions and my final product is (not in the ranks of our big dogs here) top quality for an armature. I had it looked at, not assayed. The jeweler said if I was trying to reach high purity, then I had accomplished the task...the jeweler actually is going to send me some of his stuff to refine as soon as I am ready. Which I am not. Because he like my sample. (and he has known me as a straight shooter for more than 10 years in our other dealings.)

This is what brought on this rant.

***If you want to get quick easy gold from electronics’ - I would suggest that you go to boardsort.com - they pay a "very good" price for electronic boards - then take the money you get selling your boards to them & go buy some gold with it.

Kurt***

I was that guy that wanted to get the gold off e scrap. I tried everything a novice could. I will admit that I disregarded many things that are repeated over and over buy some of the best refiners on the planet (our top board members). The comment made by Kurt and 100 other people time and again is SPOT ON. (correct). If I was trying to make any money at all, in the near year, maybe 2???... I would just call a boardsort, and bank the money. My entire post is dedicated to the "unknowns" out there.

****
I am going to add this to the post, it might cause a ruffle, because of its accuracy (or lack of)...but might sum it up for the "unknowns"... Take a memory chip in your hands. An older DDR chip from a tower, not a laptop. Look at the shiny gold edge... dream of the money you will have when you refine it. Now consider this. (this is just an example, just my basic assumption based on conjecture not fact, but it will give you an idea..) I THINK you can get 1/3rd of a Gram (there are 28 grams in an oz .. not a troy oz,..) from 50 memory chips... I am not sure if that includes the flat packs. But given this assumption, you would need 150 chips to make 1 Gram. You need 28 of these to make an OZ. sooooooo... 150 times 28 equals ....4200... that’s ...FOUR THOUSAND AND TWO HUNDRED chips..to get an OZ of AU. I have been collecting it (so its initial cost is free), for 12 years and I have nowhere near 4k chips. Not even half.
***

If you are looking to make money. SELL THE STUFF. If you are looking for a long, drawn out battle where you will take causalities and *might* win the war, ....someday, keep up with your current path. This hobby, of all the ones I have (and I have many) is the most challenging yet most rewarding too. It is just like combat. Everything is trying to hurt you. Physically, mentally and in your pocket. You have to be tenacious and like a pit bull with a bone, never let it go. IF that is not your character, put down your weapons and walk away. For a final analogy.. this hobby is like marriage, it's not at all like dating. You will have to roll up your sleeves and work at it, everyday. You will suffer and you will triumph. Sometimes you will hate this b!t*h, and wonder why the hell you ever got in bed with recovering PM's. Other days you will loose yourself in her eyes. Your just in love with that curvy blond woman with a cute accent.. she dresses awesome, and smells absolutely amazing... her nails are always done, and her hair.. simply perfect...she treats you to things in life you only dreamed about... then you marry her, and get the mortgage, the white picket fence, 2.5 kids and a dog....The clothes.. the hair?? the nails, and the amazing things that she used to share with you when you were alone... lol... let’s just say these things take a back seat. Rewarding YES. Easy... lol, NO.
I think there are 3 types of people here in this forum. There are the (let’s call them the founders, the guys that not necessarily made the site day one, but that make the site what it is).. Then there are the transitional’s... and finally there are the greenhorns... the day zero types. Everyone started at day zero. Most new comers fell off near that point. Some made it into the transitional phase which I think lasts several years... then after thousands of runs, they become funders (or key players)...I think I am getting into the transitional phase. Think about it "Unknown" after all I have been through, all of the buildup, time, money, reading, etc.... I am still not out of the greenhorn phase...

So, if you want money, sell your stuff. If you want a feeling of accomplishment that you get by doing something others may not be able to do, and do it well, you’re at the right place.

I like to think I am close to the perfect "subject" , lab rat or poster child for the newbee that sees gold and jumps in. I try everyday to get to where I might be transitioning into a refiner.. The only thing I can give back to this forum is my journey. It seems to me that the majority lurk... ask a question, get an answer and fade off into the darkness. They are in essence, leaching form the society. I don't want to just be a leach, yet I have nothing to offer up, so I try to be OPEN and HONEST about my journey... maybe, just maybe.. I will have an impact on someone new, or even help in the guidance of someone...

Ok, My coffee is empty. Someone please take away my right to post these long, drawn out posts!!!...lol
John S.

 

[niteliteone]

That was just "one" cup of coffee :?:

I want the recipe :lol:

Tom C.

 

[nickvc]

John S only one fault in that post...in the Troy ounce there 31.1035 grams, otherwise well posted and even better said.

 

[butcher]

Keep contributing John S. / ReapHer_6, it is Great stuff and the forum needs your input.

 

[Oz]

Yea, I want some of that coffee too. I like my spoon to stand up straight in mine and it does not have that effect.

 

[ReapHer_6]

John S only one fault in that post...in the Troy ounce there 31.1035 grams, otherwise well posted and even better said.

Ok, not to split hairs here, but I posted the following to show I know the difference...

*** I THINK you can get 1/3rd of a Gram (there are 28 grams in an oz .. not a troy oz,..) from 50 memory chips***..

I don't see the error.........Seriously, I am not taking it too seriously. But please advise... I am racking my brain here, and is just un necessary wear and tear on a fragle subsystem, so please show me the error before I puke.

Lol.. John S.

 

[jimdoc]

John S only one fault in that post...in the Troy ounce there 31.1035 grams, otherwise well posted and even better said.

Ok, not to split hairs here, but I posted the following to show I know the difference...

*** I THINK you can get 1/3rd of a Gram (there are 28 grams in an oz .. not a troy oz,..) from 50 memory chips***..

I don't see the error.........Seriously, I am not taking it too seriously. But please advise... I am racking my brain here, and is just un necessary wear and tear on a fragle subsystem, so please show me the error before I puke.

Lol.. John S.

You then said this;
you would need 150 chips to make 1 Gram. You need 28 of these to make an OZ. sooooooo... 150 times 28 equals ....4200... that’s ...FOUR THOUSAND AND TWO HUNDRED chips..to get an OZ of AU.

I didn't do the math, but it looks like you continued with the 28 grams for an ounce of gold?

Jim

 

[ReapHer_6]

Jim, Your right on. I was keeping all my math in the 28Gram oz, not the Toz as I am not used to using the Toz yet.. remember I just learned that there was such a thing as a Troy oz... I am a newb!!! lol

Thanks, at least now I can sleep tonight.

Thanks Jim.

As a side note, I boiled down a sample this after noon. I had a lot of excess nitric (a lot). I remembered reading about putting a gold button of know weight into the sample to assist in the removal of the excess nitric. I threw in a button, and it agressively went at it. I waited a while and it was really tearing in to my button.. I removed the button ( I only have one, darnit.. and I can't stand seeing recovered, refined product going BACK away from me and in to solution.) Anyway I turned off the heat and left to do some V day shopping. I returned and low and behold I have ANOTHER strange issue..

My sample was sort of solid but not really. Sort of crystalizing, but not... I guess the hot plate continued to heat the 3/4 inch of solution when I turned it off and left the sample on the hot plate. I stirred the crusty sample and then added 100ml of HCL and then left...

The only constant in this freaking game is change... As soon as I get to the end of one rabbit hole, another pops up..

I will address the sample in the am, and see if I can get back on track without help from the forum... lol (don't hold your breath)

John S.

 

[butcher]

Hot solution will make salts more soluble; when cool these salts may form crystals.
Think about water add salt at first salts would dissolve, if we added more salt we could saturate solution and eventually have salt in the bottom of the jar, now if we heated this solution the salt would dissolve from the bottom of the jar and we could actually dissolve more salt into this solution while hot, if we then let this hot salt solution cool the salt would precipitate back out the solution would be saturated with soluble salt (amount would be determined by the solubility of that salt in solution water at that temperature).

In Hokes book she suggests using a couple of drops of sulfuric acid to keep the gold salts soluble if you happen to heat solution (evaporate too far), another purpose of the sulfuric is to make any soluble lead to precipitate as lead sulfate.

The HCl addition should dissolve the gold salts, as long as you did not cook them so hard as to drive off the chlorides and make elemental gold metal in the salts.

The gold button added is a great method for using up excess nitric acid, I do not weigh mine as I am not worried about what gold is mine or a customers, and I get the gold back later anyway.

Thank Harold for giving us this great tool.

 

[kurt]

OK – I have finally stopped laughing so hard I think I can function again – for awhile there I thought I was going to have to call for medical assistance.

John – what brand is that coffee you are drinking – I think they may need to add it to the list of controlled substances --- Have you ever thought of doing stand up comedy – I would buy tickets.

Anyway – now that I have stopped laughing uncontrollably I need to head back out to the lab & try to figure out what I am doing wrong – I mean I must be doing something wrong because I am still not getting rich & I should be because a leprechaun once told me there was a whole pot of gold at the end of this rainbow (dam that leprechaun – I am beginning to think he sent me on a wild goose chase)

Kurt

 

[ReapHer_6]

Kurt...For starters Ill give you a hint to your problem. The leprechaun was probably a woman!... Nuff said....lmao

Your reply had me rolling... Now you see why my wife hates me.. We rescued a German Shepard last year. The other day I was sitting in the living room with the kids, wife and the dog. The wife was smiling and petting the dog. She was scratching him... he was loving it. I was getting jelous and said.. You love that dog more than you do me. She said why do you say that??..I said, well you have touched that dog more in this one sitting than you have me in the last year..(OMG the kids were rolling all over the place laughing)...then the wife calmly said.... "that's because he can't talk".....

Sheesh, a guy can't win. Usually they resent us for NOT talking.. Not mine, she wishes I would stop talking. As a matter of fact, maybe I should try that once, it might after all increase my chances of getting my belly rubbed now and again.

As a footnote I was looking at all the cards for V day. I hate cards, but she like the rest of her kind (the aliens that they are) love them. I can't stand thoses mushy over the top sappy love letters... the one I finally chose sad the following..... I never wanted a normal old relationship. (then you open it and it says)... Thants why I love ours so much... lol Perfect!!!

John S.

P.S. As far as the whole getting rich thing.... I was just informed by Harold that I have been boiling off most of what I am recovering (instead of evaporating, gosh I feel stupid.).... As for the rest of it, aparently it is in the form of a cupcake in the bottom of my flask in some salty crystaline slimy thing that I have to address. I wish I could say what I really want to here...I wont, so I'll try a G rated version.....This whole thing is harder than solving all the variables needed to give your special someone in your life a big "O". I feel like a teen in the back seeat of a Nova fumbling around in the dark for the first time... D@mn, that rejected feeling is setting in again...I am done going down memory lane. Lol

 

[ReapHer_6]

Butcher:

Your analogy really helped. Believe me when I say that. You guys that continually help us, please keep in mind that your words are forming us into what we are to become (at least those of us that are here because we are open and receptive to being formed). You guys are like mentors and or teachers. The way you put it made it a visual, and that made all the difference.

Thanks for your patients (all of you). In the military when I entered there was a drill sargent that was running the firing line. He asked us all "who here can shoot"? Most raised their hands, including me. He then said you are the ones that are going to FAIL here!. ..hmm I thought. He then said the only way you will pass here is if you forget everything you know and let us teach you from scratch. The guys that have no knowledge how to shoot will be more recptive to our teachings.
This sums up how I think when it comes to asking for help and for knowledge here. Those who come in and think they know the way, are not receptive to the teaching available here. If anyone spends time here, they quickly learn who to listen to. The people that ask a question here and dont get the answer they were looking for shut down to the wealth of knowledge avail to them. Every time I ask a question I must check the ego at the door and re align my thinking so I am receptive to the real lesson.

Anyway, just for the record I ended up in the Top Gun class that was sent to work with snipers as a reward for becoming a top marksman, and I was a helicopter crewchief (ok its a cute word for combat mechanic, loadmaster and door gunner) ..lol. I used to shoot and win, in Ar-15 competitions, then I moved to bolt rifles where I won a competition by shooting 3 rounds into a 3/10ths of an inch group at 100yrds. After that it was on to 300 Winchester Mag, LONG range shooting (1000 yard distance at a 17" diamond) competitons. I won, and won alot. I built every round that went down range, (including all the handgun ammo I shot in IPSIC competitions) most months I averaged 10,000 rounds of combined rifle and handgun ammo.
The reason I am telling you this is because you guys have my mind back in that condition. I am ready to be molded, with zero resistance. My way of learning gets me to the top of what ever I focus on, and I am focused on learning refining. Not just for a quick buck either. (as if there is much of that). I want to get to the top purity group. But that is getting ahead of myself. For now I better stick with learning setp one.

I am trying to close down the sample and reactions I have lingering in the lab. I left for a week and a half and lost all control of all of my reactions. I have learned more this week than anyone can imagine. I refuse to start anything until I resovle the last 2 or 3 flasks worth of solutions. I am then going to clean the entire lab and all the glassware and start again. I have asked for and recieved help on several areas that need attention. Now I can imagine that I have lost 5 time what I have recovered (not 3 times like I thought). Luckily the reactions are all very small.

I am going to finish out this week cleaning up all solutions and the lab and start next week with my process that is now heavily modified (more inthe correct direction). I am going to start one reaction and run it to the end. I am going to document everything and lable the glass as I move on down the process.

My head is spinning. Coffee maybe?..

Good day.

John S.

 

[niteliteone]

Anyway – now that I have stopped laughing uncontrollably I need to head back out to the lab & try to figure out what I am doing wrong – I mean I must be doing something wrong because I am still not getting rich & I should be because a leprechaun once told me there was a whole pot of gold at the end of this rainbow (dam that leprechaun – I am beginning to think he sent me on a wild goose chase)

Kurt

The leprechaun lied to you.
I searched all around the tree and house but came up empty handed also.

Tom C.

 

[ReapHer_6]

Lol, Nice one..

But judging by the rainbow's yellow band being in front of the tree, you need to set up a grid formation search pattern starting about 3 meeters closer to the camera away from the tree...

as if....sheesh

lol.. J/k.

I had taken a pic of a double rainbow once and then forgot about it as I thought I was going crazy.... That pic is awesome.

John S.

 

[steyr223]

You guys are all nuts
am I the only one here getting rich. Ok
chemistry class free
Math class free
Metallurgy class free
English class free (Harold)
E-waste (couldn't buy this one)free
communication, proper etiquette, humbleness,
Study techniques, and definitely how to follow proper procedure which the military could not even do. :lol: and God thousands of more that would have cost me 10's of thousands of dollars.
Anybody want to check my math 8)