Help with white powder in nitric

[Anonymous]

I ran a batch of pins in nitric and now I have a lot of white powder in the bottom that I cannot get to go back into solution.Heres my problem.......I don't want to dissolve the gold and filter because I am afraid I will put the powder into solution with the gold.So how do I dissolve the powder without dissolving the gold.Also I had the same problem as another member with the white powder dropping out with the gold from auric chloride,and to this day I never figured out how to fix it.I have probably 15-20 grams of gold in solution that has been sitting for about 6 months because I got too frusterated to continue.

 

[lazersteve]

Do you have any photos?

What type(s) of pins did you put in?

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Now Im really upset.Before I posted the first subject I had drained off the saturated nitric and added fresh.My thought was if it was silver then the copper in the pins may have forced it out of solution when the acid became saturated.So I added fresh in hopes that it would go back into solution.Only it looks as though my gold has gone into solution as well.Makes no sense at all.I soaked it in muratic at one point,but cleaned it very well before I put the nitric in,so that I wouldnt make AR.But it looks as though thats what i've done now.This is so freaking frusterating!To answer the pins question steve,they were unused pins from a company that makes boards for the space industry.Mary's friend works there and brings them home to me when they get messed up.I will try to send you a couple of pics via email(I still have that prob of pixel size when I put them on here).Johnny

 

[ps_jb]

I ran a batch of pins in nitric and now I have a lot of white powder in the bottom that I cannot get to go back into solution.Heres my problem.......I don't want to dissolve the gold and filter because I am afraid I will put the powder into solution with the gold.So how do I dissolve the powder without dissolving the gold.Also I had the same problem as another member with the white powder dropping out with the gold from auric chloride,and to this day I never figured out how to fix it.I have probably 15-20 grams of gold in solution that has been sitting for about 6 months because I got too frusterated to continue.

Several elements are not dissolved in HNO3. Sn, Sb
Most important is Sn - which produces white precipitate - SnO2*xH2O
It's easly can be dissolved in HCl conc
If you got white precip in HNO3 - it's not a silver.

 

[Harold_V]

I soaked it in muratic at one point,but cleaned it very well before I put the nitric in,so that I wouldnt make AR.But it looks as though thats what i've done now.

This is a classic example of why I DO NOT recommend using nitric once your material has been exposed to HCl, or HCl if your material has been exposed to nitric. Incineration is the only way to insure that you can do so safely. Tough way to learn that which has been put in print time and again.

Harold

 

[butcher]

powders from an acid and metals, make a salt of acid and metal,
these salts still contain the previous acid,the high heat can drive tem off and oxidize the metal.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks harold for being sympathetic to the proplem,instead of throwing mud in someones face.Thankfully I DID EXACTLY WHAT STEVE SUGGESTED and only ran about 10 pins out of several pounds as a test batch just in case this very thing happens!So I am out about a dollar.And while Im on the subject there was about 300ml of nitric,to a maximum of 1 drop of muratic,so before you took the time tp batter me over the potential AR I made,you shouldve taken the time to ask me HOW well I cleaned them first.Well just so you are aware last night while trying to figure out the problem my wife informed me that she had poured 2 containers of muratic together,however one of them was my waste muratic left over from dropping gold and contained bleach and smb.And one last thing,I have read hokes book and I will say there is quite a bit of useful info on just about everything that has to do with metals.But as far as gold goes,I think it is simply a waste of a weeks worth of time.Don't get me wrong,the book is innovative and cutting edge...........FOR ITS TIME! But considering it was written almost 100 years ago most of the processes are just outdated.Again hoke was ahead of the game at the time she wrote the book,but the tips and tricks that we all have learned since then,makes her book a thing of the past.There are at least 30 books that have been published about gold processing in the last 10 years that are so much more useful and speaks on a level that people of today can understand easier.Sorry I am getting off track here,I am just pissed off because instead of trying to help(which is what this forum is here for)you decided to cast stones.That was just rude.Well thanks to the people that did offer to help,it is greatly appreciated.
Johnny
P.S.The fresh nitric did dissolve the powder.

 

[elfixx]

If you added tap water or HCL or any Chlorine compound to your nitric this white powder that wont disolve is probably silver chloride. In my opinion your only option from now on is to disolve the value in AR and then filter out the chloride. But i'm no pro... Thats just my opinion.

 

[Harold_V]

Thanks harold for being sympathetic to the proplem,instead of throwing mud in someones face.

Indeed! And thank you for the snotty comments.

you shouldve taken the time to ask me HOW well I cleaned them first.Well just so you are aware last night while trying to figure out the problem my wife informed me that she had poured 2 containers of muratic together,however one of them was my waste muratic left over from dropping gold and contained bleach and smb.

The point you are missing is that incineration would have avoided the problem. I don't give a rats butt what happened, or how. Neither should you. There is a lesson to be learned here, one you feel you don't need.

And one last thing,I have read hokes book and I will say there is quite a bit of useful info on just about everything that has to do with metals.But as far as gold goes,I think it is simply a waste of a weeks worth of time. 1Don't get me wrong,the book is innovative and cutting edge...........FOR ITS TIME! But considering it was written almost 100 years ago most of the processes are just outdated.

Yes, of course it is. It's outdated.

That's why you got in trouble. Clever people that think they can build a better mousetrap often feel that way. What you are conveniently overlooking is that if you follow her advice, you will have good fortune in refining. That isn't outdated, nor will it be in the future. That is utter BS.

Don't you think your objective is what should determine how to process?

I do.

If you feel you are a research scientist and are looking for methods to improve what works well, certainly you should do all the creative things you feel you must do-----and perhaps you will be fortunate to create a more round wheel. By sharp contrast, I chose to follow her book, and enjoyed more than twenty years of successful and lucrative refining. My objective was to learn to process high quality gold. Her book did exactly that for me. I hardly consider that archaic, especially when I was taking customers from better established refiners, including names you might recognize.

My comments still stand. Had you followed advice that would have kept you out of trouble, you wouldn't have had the problem you experienced.

Subconsciously, you will have learned a lesson, but your pride is likely too involved to make the admission. That has to be your problem, it certainly isn't going to become mine.

Those that are open to learning will have profited by your mistake, and that's what it was, a mistake. You thought you could ignore part of a proven process and got burned as a result.

Harold

 

[JustinNH]

hahaha to the comment about the book being 100 years old...

so what? Doesnt mean it is wrong. the chemistry of it all can't change because 100 years past.

Honestly, if someone read the book fully, twice, and read all the posts on this forum... it would be very hard to think of a question not answered somewhere.

 

[butcher]

I wish I could find a book on how to refine gold, by the egyptions during pharoh's time, it may be outdated but bet I sure could learn alot. from them, many times the old ways are lost because people think they are outdated, someday we will wish we knew or kept that hard won knowledge alive. it may be the only thing to keep us alive someday.

must be everybody has been couped up to long this winter?

 

[jamthe3]

There's alot of good stuff on how to deal w/ tin and lead in the book. Pretty basic stuff that's easy to do to fix problems from those elements. Hundred years old or not, seeing as I kinda inexperienced & ignorant so far on most of this stuff, it still reads a tad above my level of expertise on many topics. I like the idea of finding the thousand year old book of the Pharoahs'. Especially if its written in hieroglyphics, it might be more on my level and all. How they say, a picture's worth a thousand words...LOL.

Anyhoots, my enjoyment level went up a thousand fold after reading Hoke's book.

Cheers,
John

 

[Harold_V]

I now have more time to address this poorly chosen response to mine.

There are at least 30 books that have been published about gold processing in the last 10 years that are so much more useful and speaks on a level that people of today can understand easier.

Okay, big mouth-----here's a chance for you to put your money where your not very smart mouth is.

Name the books. I'll settle for just thirty of them---you claim more.

Sorry I am getting off track here,I am just pissed off because instead of trying to help(which is what this forum is here for)you decided to cast stones.

Is that your normal method of operation? Kill the messenger because you don't like the message?

Don't take out on me the fact that you lack knowledge. My response was helping you----you just didn't like hearing it. If you want praise from me, do something praiseworthy. Don't expect me to fawn over you when you refuse to use good practice. Ignoring good information then whining like a spoiled kid doesn't hack it with me.

Some times you encounter someone that just doesn't set well with you. You're one of them. I don't like you, and I have no intentions of liking you.

Harold

 

[koebeef]

Generally, in most cases in life, the old fashioned way is the best way to do many things. I bought the book read it and already feel way more confident in my abilities. Combined with knowledge from people like Harold and Steve the sky is the limit.

 

[goldsilverpro]

For jewelry and dental scrap, the Hoke book is as close to state-of-the-art as any book you'll find. Also, you learn the general basics for dealing with most common chemicals.

With the exception of Ammen, most every book I've seen is crap. For electronic scrap, there is no book that I'm aware of - this forum is the best source in the world.

The 30 book thing is about a 10-fold exaggeration. Maybe, when you've been doing this for more than a week, you'll be in a position to make more intelligent observations. Also, too many cooks spoil the the broth.

 

[Anonymous]

I wrote a very long reply,even though it was accurate,it was immature to respond to such a childish response,so I deleted it.We need to remain adults and TO THE SUBJECT! Thats what this forum is for,so moving on and keeping with the subject............I filtered the solution and I have no choice at this point but to drop it out and start a series of washes like normal.

Also harold,or whoever else may have control of this next question,is there any way to make the picture "allowances" larger?I can make my pictures smaller,but all of the really good pictures that I have are huge and I have no chance of retaking them now.

 

[qst42know]

And now an even bigger mistake, Johnny.

The very people experienced enough and most importantly willing to help you, you continue to insult?

You started down this foolish path.

 

[Anonymous]

LOL guy starts with a simple problem and ends up crucified by his peers.You guys are too funny.

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe, when you've been doing this for more than a week, you'll be in a position to make more intelligent observations. Also, too many cooks spoil the the broth.

Well apparantly I am the only person that can see what anyone else is writing so I figured I would post the comment that I thought was childish since you clearly didnt see it qst.And for your info I DID NOT start this,but I am ending it right now!

 

[qst42know]

LOL guy starts with a simple problem and ends up crucified by his peers.You guys are too funny.

I wouldn't consider the helpful giving people on this forum his peers.

Far from it.

He's crucifying himself. And deserves whatever he gets.