How to deal with CuAg 15%

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What do you mean ?

How to refine an alloy with 15% of Ag in it ? 15% of Cu in it ? 15% of the alloy made of Ag + Cu ?
What other metals are in there ?
What is the form of the material ?
It comes from what?
 
If he has more silver of decent quality to refine i would view this as ideal material to cement the later and better solutions so you get the silver recovered for free.
 
nickvc said:
If he has more silver of decent quality to refine i would view this as ideal material to cement the later and better solutions so you get the silver recovered for free.
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Or even the "use it for inquartation" tactic
 
upcyclist said:
nickvc said:
If he has more silver of decent quality to refine i would view this as ideal material to cement the later and better solutions so you get the silver recovered for free.
Click to expand...
Or even the "use it for inquartation" tactic
Click to expand...

I fear not many members now refine karat scrap often if at all, most of the members are dealing solely with e scrap these days, the margins can be better but you have to work hard for your money, karat scrap is fairly easy to process and quick but you need decent volumes to make money.
 
Platdigger said:
He most likely means 15 percent silver solder like what is used in refrigeration for soldering copper pipe joints.
In which case if he has nitric, should be fairly straight forward.
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It reacts too violently in nitric acid
I Have about 12 KG of this Welding Electrodes i have got them from my Cousin he told me to extract the silver and give him half of the quantity.


alexxx said:
What do you mean ?

How to refine an alloy with 15% of Ag in it ? 15% of Cu in it ? 15% of the alloy made of Ag + Cu ?
What other metals are in there ?
What is the form of the material ?
It comes from what?
Click to expand...
They are Welding Electrodes
Cu 85% Ag 15%
 
If they are still useable for welding, I would sell them for that purpose.

With that much copper, you would need large volumes of nitric to dissolve them and you'd produce a lot of NOx.

If they're just short, leftover stub ends, I wonder if a copper cell would work? Perhaps 4metals will chime in.

Dave
 
How much material are you talking about? One or two Kg could be processed in nitric acid as long as the acid is cheap. Anything over a couple of Kg's would be best processed in a copper sulfate parting cell. The silver would be left as a black powder.Add 10% more pure copper and melt the material and cast into bars. The copper sulfate parting cell Would work great for that material, just as FrugalRefiner suggested. Or you could just melt them as they are and part it but 95% copper content is optimal.
 
Geoff just to point out for this to work well in a silver cell he would need to add an extra 2 kilos of silver per kilo not just 10% extra to the weight.
1000 X 15 % = 150 so to get the material to 95% copper 150 X .05 = 3000 total weight.
 
I'm sorry Nick. I was actually talking about adding copper and using a copper sulfate parting cell to remove the copper from the silver. The silver would still need to be to be refined in a silver parting cell. I should have been more clear. Sometimes I can't even understand myself.
 
Geoff there's only 1.8 kilos max of silver so there's a lot of copper to get rid of, perhaps using AP which I believe will create silver chloride would work if HCl is a lot cheaper for the OP than nitric, with that amount of chloride it's not too difficult to convert well and very cleanly to get fine silver... The other thought is if it's just copper and silver dissolve some of the material in nitric and cement the silver using some of the product melted into a bar thus you get some of the silver refined for free, we need a clever soul to work out exact quantities for this.
The other thought is if it's just copper in solution after cementation cement that out using steel and sell the copper on to help cover the costs of the acids.
 
I belive Geo is talking about copper cell as they use it in copper refineries. Result is pure copper and PMs you get in sediment mud.
 
Yes I followed what he said but you would need the cell set up for either silver or copper refining or both I was looking for simple ideas and steps that most could achieve and cheaply.
 
nickvc said:
Geoff just to point out for this to work well in a silver cell he would need to add an extra 2 kilos of silver per kilo not just 10% extra to the weight.
1000 X 15 % = 150 so to get the material to 95% copper 150 X .05 = 3000 total weight.
Click to expand...
I guess that you meant copper.

If copper is added to run it through a copper cell (what I would do) the refined copper could be used to alloy another batch of anodes. So in the end the only extra copper needed would be for the first anodes. The copper could also be sold in the end.

To dissolve the metal in nitric acid and cement would take a lot of acid, potentially expensive unless you have a really cheap source of nitric.

The AP route could work but would produce a lot of copper chloride to take care of.

My guess is that the copper cell is the best way to deal with this scrap as a single occasion.

Another question to ask is, is it worth the work for 7.5% silver? Maybe the best way is just to sell it to a refinery. Least work, no waste and quick cash.

Göran
 
Goran you are right it was too early for me to make sense :oops:
Again you are right about running it in batches through a copper cell as you say the only extra copper that would be needed would be for the first anode after that it's just a can of harvest the refined copper add it to the next batch and away you go.
 
g_axelsson said:
nickvc said:
Geoff just to point out for this to work well in a silver cell he would need to add an extra 2 kilos of silver per kilo not just 10% extra to the weight.
1000 X 15 % = 150 so to get the material to 95% copper 150 X .05 = 3000 total weight.
Click to expand...
I guess that you meant copper.

If copper is added to run it through a copper cell (what I would do) the refined copper could be used to alloy another batch of anodes. So in the end the only extra copper needed would be for the first anodes. The copper could also be sold in the end.

To dissolve the metal in nitric acid and cement would take a lot of acid, potentially expensive unless you have a really cheap source of nitric.

The AP route could work but would produce a lot of copper chloride to take care of.

My guess is that the copper cell is the best way to deal with this scrap as a single occasion.

Another question to ask is, is it worth the work for 7.5% silver? Maybe the best way is just to sell it to a refinery. Least work, no waste and quick cash.

Göran
Click to expand...

Thanks you for the answer, i have tryed to put them in nitric, i have used 20 liters on them (They doesn't dissolved completly) i have moved the solution out in another vessel and percipitate with copper.. but when i add copper some kind of black mud appears on it and doesn't percipitate.
i have tested the solution with HCL And yes, it does contains silver..

I know that i can percipitate with HCL or Non-Iodized Salt but i don't like the idea of conversion with lye and sugar, it's a little bit complicated, i like the simple things.

And yes, for me it's worth :D i have worked with things that was plated with 0.75 % of silver and it was still worth , i got the Nitric very cheap. And beside this, is not all about money. I Told my cousin that i can do it so i have to do it .
 
Guys, i got a big mess.. i have completly dissolved all the welding electrodes in nitric acid but when i tryed to percipitate in the down of the vessel i have got a white powder that i have tryed to melt it and i got nothing from.

and on the copper that i have added it's forming a black mud.

i have tryed to dissolve a little bit of the white powder in hcl, it's instantly dissolved then i have percipitated with Zinc, i have got a red powder i have melted and i have got a red metal i think is copper.

i think that All this mess it has been created by phospor, i have read on the msds that these welding electrodes contains

5% phosphorus,
15% Silver,
80% Copper.

i have took the black mud formed on the copper that i have used to percipitate and tryed to melt it but i have got just a little bit of silver. 400 G From 12 KG Of WE.
I Have to get more 1,4 KG

what can i do now ?
 

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