Introduction

[Yggdrasil]

It was from a special occasion dinner.

Hope it tasted good.

 

[Zebidiah Habaneros]

No where I have found states this forum is for hobbyists only. There are a great many discussions already posted that are above the hobby level already and well discussed. A good many of those discussions have been adapted by the hobby level refiners to work in a small scale environment as well. It isn’t about hobby’s or professionally so much as it is about open discussions. Each individual has to learn their own level of ability and work from there. Most leave before ever achieving the great dream of building a larger refinery, but a few, they do make it from hobby to professional level. And it is nice to see those few and follow their story. Then some of us, myself included, just wanted to be able to learn how. Following some of those stories can be just as interesting. But saying it isn’t appropriate is way off base, it may not be for everyone, but a proper guide is much better than random experimentation.

Now back to the daily discussion.

This is a well placed and well thought out response hitting on the important points.

 

[BAGross85]

I'm not sure that you're correct here BAG. There are many uses of PGMs in electronics in many areas other than those you mention. The classic uses are still there, and I'd love to know how and where they are used to increase memory. Do you have some links I could look at?

I don’t have links. I’m really bad about saving things.

I learned about this ironically, from some investing videos on the case for semi-conductor companies. It makes sense considering computer with the processing powers of our phone, used to take up entire rooms haha.

 

[BAGross85]

Nice to look at, but in my world Coffee is black with no sweetener.
Maybe a pinch of Cinnamon if I feel like stretching it

Black coffee = the only way

 

[BAGross85]

If you can't refine without a filter mask, refining is not for you...

I have been around the block with refining and in todays environment in the US the permitting process as well as dealing with the waste can be daunting. And that is before you have to sell your refined metals after you purify them. In a decanning setup you start with a decanning machine and a ball mill and a sifter. Now you have powder and scrap steel cans. The powder is blended while you watch and sample accurately. There are many decent labs in the US to assay your cat powder sample from the blending. All lots are sampled with an umpire sample sealed up for use if needed so agreement between your assay result and theirs is needed or the umpire is used. You will be paid for whatever is in there. Worth an inquiry about their rates.

In the end you have no airborne waste to scrub, no refining residues to deal with, and no waste acids to treat or have hauled.

In reality if you are any decent sized operation you need to prepare the material before digestion anyway so this preliminary process is needed anyway. Maybe, in the future you will decide to try the chemical route. But having the experience of accurate sampling and assaying will give you a good base line to determine yields and costs.

Proper sampling and dealing directly with the end smelter is as close to cutting out the middleman as you can get.

From the perspective of a chemist the process of chemical extraction has some appeal personally, but the practicality of it, which has been enhanced by years of experience, would steer me to the sampling and plasma smelter. But I have no horse in this race, simply adding my 2¢.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

You are wrong about that, but it is not easy get hold of them.
They contain Platinum, Palladium and/or Rhodium depending on type.

First as you say, if you dissolve them they are very toxic and your probably not able to get out more then 80 + percent of the values.
Additionally creating massive amount of toxic waste.
Sending it to the big processors will be the most profitable and sane way to treat it.

You say 80%.

Why though? What is the reason for the 20% being “unrecoverable”?

Are they lost in evaporation? They certainly don’t “disappear”.

 

[BGDOCK]

Black coffee = the only way

I can drink black coffee don’t get me wrong , the cappuccino was an after dinner treat . It was Awsome . I tile the flat whites because it seams less acidic and doesn’t mess my stomach up.

I’m curious bag & Yagg do you drink warm beer .

 

[Yggdrasil]

I can drink black coffee don’t get me wrong , the cappuccino was an after dinner treat . It was Awsome . I tile the flat whites because it seams less acidic and doesn’t mess my stomach up.

I’m curious bag & Yagg do you drink warm beer .

I certainly do not add ice cubes to it.

 

[Yggdrasil]

You say 80%.

Why though? What is the reason for the 20% being “unrecoverable”?

Are they lost in evaporation? They certainly don’t “disappear”.

That is correct, but somehow the remainders seem locked up in the ceramic matrix/wash coat.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I can drink black coffee don’t get me wrong , the cappuccino was an after dinner treat . It was Awsome . I tile the flat whites because it seams less acidic and doesn’t mess my stomach up.

I’m curious bag & Yagg do you drink warm beer .

I actually prefer it cold, but if it is quality beer, I like it more in the cool range as it has more flavour.

 

[rajeall]

My name is Brent, I’m a manager of a small junkyard in MO. I grew up in the cat converter trade, working for a core buyer. I have one goal: recover enough PGM’s from converters that will allow me to cut out the middlemen from junkyard to refiner.

I bought a copy of CM Hoke’s book, and am preparing to memorize it. Help me though:

Will Hoke’s methods, if followed, recover the PGM’s for converters? I need to recover around 95%. (I have training in Chemistry, as well as Biology, so I’m acquainted with safety and lab rules).

Using a new method of mixing with an iron sulfate mix you can melt them down at 98+ recovery at about 950c for 75 minutes am leaning towards this method

 

[rajeall]

Using a new method of mixing with an iron sulfate mix you can melt them down at 98+ recovery at about 950c for 75 minutes am leaning towards this method

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien... catalytic,promising process for PGM recovery

 

[Yggdrasil]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0921344920302093#:~:text=PGMs were extracted from catalytic,promising process for PGM recovery

This method seems mostly to be a lab paper to get funding.
I believe it may not be suitable outside the lab.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Using a new method of mixing with an iron sulfate mix you can melt them down at 98+ recovery at about 950c for 75 minutes am leaning towards this method

Iron Sulfate melts at appr 206 C and would probably be fully evaporated or decomposed at 950C.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Using a new method of mixing with an iron sulfate mix you can melt them down at 98+ recovery at about 950c for 75 minutes am leaning towards this method

Did you mean Iron sulfide not Iron sulfate?
These are completely different beasts.

 

[rajeall]

Did you mean Iron sulfide not Iron sulfate?
These are completely different beasts.

Yes

 

[rajeall]

This method seems mostly to be a lab paper to get funding.
I believe it may not be suitable outside the lab.

Yeah I can't get the full paper without reading or paying a subscription but from the synopsis it seemed pretty easy the nano structure seems pretty tricky but I think you can buy it at sigma alma not sure if something I'm just starting to look into

 

[Martijn]

I’m also aware of one very unique concept, that converters are a mixture of PGMs that are in the nanoparticle form. Therefore, even the greatest filtration masks will not truly protect against their hazards. Upon figuring out the successful process, I will design a series of mechanisms that I can effectively control from a distance, using the Mindstorms software and Lego hardware from my youth (seriously, I’m not joking).

While fine pgm particles are very harmful, it's a completely different story when they are in solution. (meaning dissolved, not just wet)
Much more toxic and there is no cure. You will die if you get platinosis.
If you need a mask to refine with acids, you're doing something wrong. If you need a mask because of the dust escaping while crushing, you're losing values and contaminating your workspace, walking it indoors with your shoes, and before you know it, it's in your meals and kids toys.
Try to prevent the harmful substances to ever reach your body, direct or indirectly.

Not worth the required investment and risk you're exposed to imo.