is it possible 925 sterling silver powder

[kurtak]

Picking up where I left off yesterday

The size match to the GPM of the pressure washer and the PSI of the pressure washer determines the nozzle selection --- If the nozzle hole is too small the pump produces more than the flow out of the nozzles it can cause trouble --- if the nozzle hole is too large performance is compromised.

It is best if you can select a pressure washer where the pressure is adjustable for fine tuning.

Here is a close up picture of the power head I posted a few days ago



In this picture you see the pipe in the center of the donut that I talked about yesterday

you also see the 1/4 inch half couplings - that the nozzles screw into - welded into the power head

The placement of the half couplings & nozzles should be done by a machine shop to insure proper placement of all 4 nozzles thereby insuring a nice uniform spray pattern (the spray from each nozzle comes together at the same point)

The angle of the spray from the nozzle to the point where it intersects the molten metal can range between 30 and 45 degrees but all must be the same angle so the majority of the waters energy hits the stream of molten metal from 4 sides at the same time, this is what in part effects the particle size --- in other words - this in part along with the other (5) points I posted a few days ago

As a side note - in this (above) pic - you see two round dots - one to the left & one to the right - I have no idea what those are & they are not described in any of the righten documents I have so apparently have no real function

Here is a pic showing the basic principle/idea



This picture shows the connection of the water supply hose coming from the pressure washer to the donut power head - as well as three rods welded to the donut that stabilizes the power head when it is sitting on top of the container that catches the metal powder (like a 55 gallon drum)



I am not sure how many pictures I can put in one post so will end this one & go to another post

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

Here is a picture of the complete unit sit on a 10 gallon catch tank

notice that in this pic there is a lid on the 10 gallon tank - there is a hole in the lid - with a seal between the donut & lid so that there is a snug fit between the donut & lid

you can use a 55 gallon drum for doing larger pours --- there are a few other details you need to be aware of but I will post about that in another post



Here is a picture of the molten metal being hand poured through the atomizer donut power head

This set up - pouring directly through the center pipe is usually sufficient for melts up to 150 ounces.



You can have more control over the flow rate of molten metal through the atomizer by having the molten metal flow through a crucible that has a hole in the bottom of the crucible like this



The crucible of course needs to be (& kept) RED HOT so the molten metal does not freeze up in the crucible - so you need to figure out how to do that if going with this method instead of doing a normal hand pour

This - when properly set up - will allow you to do larger & more controlled pours of the molten metal

These are all the picture I have on my computer --- I have more pictures but they are in paper documents so can't post them here as I don't have a scanner --- sorry about that

This is enough info for now

I will post more details again later --- if not later today - then tomorrow

Kurt

 

[Racoon]

Let's start with this ------

The more pressure you have, the finer the powder you make.

The point I am making here is that you can make a "proto type" using a small home use pressure washer - like the one Sam posted (For proof of concept, we hooked it up with a small home pressure washer, rated at 1.6 GPM at about 1000 PSI) --- but all that is going to do is prove the concept that a pressure washer will bust molten metal into small particle size - but we already know that this works

What this won't do is tell you how much actual powder can/will be made (which is the end goal) by operating at higher pressure & higher GPM in order to optimize production of powder

We already know a pressure washer will bust molten metal - but our goal is not to just bust metal - rather it is to optimize powder production - So IMO - it only makes sense to build for optimized powder production in the first place

Other wise all you are doing is building to prove what we already know --- & then re-building to optimize - what we already know

The power head I posted a pic of is built with that in mind (operate at higher pressure & higher GPM) for optimum powder production

Once this system is built - there are a few things you can alter (such as rate of the molten metal pour - orifice size - nozzle fan - ect.) to achieve your most desired output

With that said - I will next post the materials needed for building the power head/system I posted a pic of

Kurt

Your post is interesting, why don’t you make a happy you tube post showing your production

 

[grainsofgold]

there are a few companies that will atomize metal for a fee. less money than building or setting up a machine. names escape me now. They were on the east coast.

 

[cejohnsonsr1]

Ok, so then I’m just going to cut to the chase and ask the question that seems most obvious to me. If such a device already exists, why don’t you just buy one?

 

[nickvc]

Ok, so then I’m just going to cut to the chase and ask the question that seems most obvious to me. If such a device already exists, why don’t you just buy one?

I’ll take a guess and say because they are horrendously expensive or only made by the companies using them or both.

 

[kurtak]

Some videos that might be of interest

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...8135DE538A555EBD16138135DE538A555&FORM=VDQVAP
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...earch?q=metal+powdwer+atomization&FORM=VDRESM
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...earch?q=metal+powdwer+atomization&FORM=VDRESM
Kurt

 

[kurtak]

If such a device already exists, why don’t you just buy one?

Per the bold print - It's not a question of IF --- the fact is they do exist (as shown in the videos I just linked)

As to why not just buy one - anything you can/will find out there on the market - as Nick pointed out is going be horrendously expensive

Just guessing here but I am willing to bet the instructions I am providing for a DIY build is probably (plus/minus - more likely minus) one tenth the cost anything you will find one the market

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

So - picking up from where I left off yesterday

A few more things to be aware of

You will find that it is near impossible to keep scale from developing inside the donut - either from welding during fabrication or whatever - the small pubic hair sized orifice of the spray nozzles are easy to clog and it is difficult to see when they clog. --- so it is best if you can find nozzles with built in screens/filters to prevent this. They are harder to find and a bit longer but worth it.

As has already been said - The more pressure you have, the finer the powder you make. Get your nozzles to match the output of your pressure washer, so the flow through 4 nozzles at full pressure will equal or be close to the total GPM output of the washer

Speaking of pressure washers --- you basically have 2 options - gas powered washers or electric powered washers

The electric power washers are nice and controlling them with a foot switch is convenient because with a foot switch one person can turn the washer on & off when you go to make your pour - but gas powered units are cheaper and work well too - you just need to have help so when you are ready to pour someone turns on the washer.

yesterday I said; - notice that in this pic there is a lid on the 10 gallon tank - there is a hole in the lid - with a seal between the donut & lid so that there is a snug fit between the donut & lid

The purpose of the lid on the powder catch vessel (drum/tank) is to prevent water splash back (remember you are operating at HIGH pressures

But also - blowing the high pressure water into the drum causes the mist to try to get out to equalize pressure.

So - if you use the tundish set up (crucible with hole in the bottom of the crucible) to do your pours - having the lid on the powder catch vessel causes the pressurized spray water mist up at the hot crucible - not good.

So if you put a hole in the side & near the top of the catch vessel - or in the lid that you can hook a shop vac up to that will help to draw the mist away from the pouring hole.

Your powder catch vessel (which you are also filling with water) somewhat determines the size pour you can make

Example; - a pressure washer with an output of 6.8 GPM will fill a 55 gallon drum in 8 minutes (realistically -you would want to stop at a max of - plus/minus - 45 gallons) so you can calculate from there (depending on pressure washer selection etc.)

This atomizer system will process about 2 ounces of molten metal per second

I say about because it somewhat depends on pour rate - washer selection etc. etc.

So again you can make calculations from there

You could set your system up to recirculate the water - HOWEVER - there is one more factor to consider in the process of metal powder atomization

Cold water coming in contact with hot metal has much more explosive energy then hot water coming in contact with hot metal --- therefore water temp - at least to some degree will also have somewhat of an effect on the particle size of your atomized powder output

This should be enough info to at least get you started for building a metal powder atomizer

If you have any question feel free to ask & I will do my best to answer

Keep in mind - I have never personally built one - I am simply passing on info from documents I have been provided with

And by all means - please take heed of the warnings I have provide - this is not a toy & if you take shot cuts & hurt yourself &/or someone else that is on you as I have provided all the info for building this & building it right

That includes having the welds done professionally AND having them x-rayed

Kurt

 

[capitano9VII]

You have created a truly excellent guide. thanks for your hard work. I will review. I will gather the necessary equipment and meet with someone for the installation (welding, material supply). I will contact you again after making progress. I will have questions.

 

[AustAuScrap]

Thank You for the effort and valuable time you have used to help to help this other member.
I hope he remembers you and your consultancy work if he ever goes commercial with his project.
I have found the attention to detail and safe operations exemplary as has been your tolerance of "nay sayers" and detractors.
Best Wishes from this side of the world, Keep Up the meticulous standards of your work.
J

 

[kurtak]

One more document I found (yesterday) on my computer

Edit to say I deleted the link because it did not work

Opps - it's a PDF & apparently I can't just copy & past it (it's in my down loads files not my documents file

So I will have to figure out how to put it up here

Kurt

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Include it as an attachment. See my Tips thread.

Dave

 

[kurtak]

Here is the PDf I tried to post yesterday

Kurt

 

[samuel-a]

Good job explaining all of this, Kurt.

A strange circumstance had me deliver my build to the client before I could test it at higher pressure (as it was designated to work at 3000PSI and built accordingly).

It is worth mentioning again that the variable having the most significant effect on particle size is the amount of water per second passing through the apex.
To achieve this, one needs his contraption to accommodate fine-tuning of the nuzzles and make sure to use a 0-15° fan angle (depending on the apex distance).

 

[capitano9VII]

First products, 925 silver powders. @kurtak I will send it to the lab to find out the size.

 

[kurtak]

First products, 925 silver powders. @kurtak I will send it to the lab to find out the size.

capitano9VII - thank you very much for posting the pics of your first powder - it's good to see the results of time spent providing info

Although pictures can be deceiving it looks like very nice powder with relatively high percentage of very fine to ultra fine

As I said - the atomizer will produce a "range" of particle sizes so it will be good to hear back the report from the lab & most important if it is serving the needs of your client

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

First products, 925 silver powders. @kurtak I will send it to the lab to find out the size.

capitano9VII - any word back from the lab yet on the powder size ?

Kurt

 

[capitano9VII]

capitano9VII - any word back from the lab yet on the powder size ?

Kurt

No news yet. I will let you know as soon as the results come out. @kurtak

 

[kurtak]

Ok - thank you - was just wondering

Kurt