Jet Engine Turbine Scrap Discussion

[qst42know]

That's a lot of braze material in the through joint type. Nice scrap Steve.

 

[g_axelsson]

Too bad this topic died down, I followed it with anticipation. I haven't had any personal experience of refining turbines, the closest I've been is working as a helicopter technician during my military service.

I ran into another thread concerning turbine scrap here
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13497
The original poster was on a fishing trip and got banned on page 3 after deleting half of his posts, but the thread contains a reference to a patent for removing gold braze from stainless steel and some other interesting stuff.

I also found a reference on the web on different precious metal brazes and their composition.
http://www.morgantechnicalceramics.com/products-materials/braze-alloys/braze-alloys-materials-selector/?selector=precious

Now I just have to find a jet engine... 8)

Göran

 

[Palladium]

It was to bad this topic died it was an interesting topic. Notice how in the thread you posted the link where the guy got banned that he erased All his other posts except where he makes reference to me? That's weird. lol

 

[g_axelsson]

On page 1 I was ready to report him, on page 2 I suspected that he was already banned, on page 3 I got confirmation.

Good riddance!

Göran

 

[bigubuddy]

It was to bad this topic died it was an interesting topic. Notice how in the thread you posted the link where the guy got banned that he erased All his other posts except where he makes reference to me? That's weird. lol

Just wanted to put in my two cents here since I was a 68B Aircraft Engine powerplant repair technician for 6 years in the Army during the late 80's early 90's. If you can get a complete engine and dismantle it you would have a nice pile of rare scrap metals and they would be worth as much as the PMs shown in the previous pics. Like Steve already posted you may have a hard time finding someone locally that will give you what it is worth. Here in Savannah, GA they call cast aluminum "Irony Aluminum". The power output to weight ratio of these engines is of paramount importance. The reason for rare metals castings and many rare metals alloys. The newer army engines are maintained on a sub unit schedule. The military no longer tears them down in the field. The Chinook, Huey and Cobra had the General Electric T55 engine which was built to be dismantled and reassembled during battle. I must have rebuilt three dozen of them and went up to do vibration checks on every one. A dozen in Germany before Gorbachov tore down the wall, two in the Mojave Desert at Fort Irwin NTC and the rest at Hunter Army Airfield. This thread can still go on if there are any more "wingnuts" (pilots pet name for us) out there. :mrgreen:

If you can find a starter wiring harness assembly you could rake in a few ounces of Platinum wire.
Fuel control valves and nozzles were PT metals as well. Fuel was under high pressure.
The combustion chambers were a special stainless titanium alloy. Tough as hell. We had to replace them if they had so many dents or scratches. Everything we took off was shipped away for disposal.

 

[lazersteve]

This thread has somehow been revived from the dead. I must say it's a very pleasant surprise!

As promised I'll up the ante on my contributions.

For this go around I'll openly sell off some of my Pt blade scrap to interested parties. The blades will be intact and untouched by any chemicals, just like I got them. The blades will be sold and valued as experimental learning scrap for those that have never had, or may never otherwise have a chance to work with this material and platinum coatings. I will be selling the blades in 1/2 to 1 pound lots and will only deal via my email at : [email protected] for pricing and photos.

I have a limited supply of this material and will only sell small lots to those that inquire so that everyone who is interested gets a sample. The blades definitely contain Platinum as well as exotic alloys which vary with each blade type. These small lots will be a great item for anyone who would like to try their hand at tackling this type of platinum scrap.

Steve

 

[g_axelsson]

If I knew this I would have revived this thread a couple of months ago... :mrgreen:

This is a very nice offer from you... you got mail.

Göran

 

[rickbb]

If only I was brave enough to take on another PM metal, sigh.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Steve

I hope you don't mind me resurrecting this thread. I was wondering if during your journey down the rabbit hole you had much success with exhaust thermocouples? Pic attached of some I have in currently.

Regards

Jon

 

[nickvc]

You need an xrf gun mate or spend time and or money testing or having assays done, depending on the heat at the exhaust will tell you whether they used precious metals or base.

 

[sena]

Hi every one its been long time .. came up with some pictures of Boeing engine pics , i have no info on the alloys of the turbine blades , these were 737 engine
hope to add some input here ,,

 

[Lou]

Wanna sell any of the parts?

The engine you have is either:
JT8D-9/9A, JT8D-17R/17AR , CFM-56-3B-1 or CFM-56-7B

 

[sena]

thanks Lou ,I want to know what's the value of the engine itself , it's jt 8d -17a
please PM me if intrested

thanks

 

[snoman701]

This thread is very dead, but I'll post some other pictures...and I'd love advice for testing.

How do I go about testing the brazes? I have a some stainless lines with a copperish colored braze on it. I can't imagine them to be a bronze or CuNi braze, but I could be absolutely wrong. I'll get some pictures around and post.

I've also found A LOT of blades assembies that are completely TIG welded up, but I think a few with the two welds...I'll have to look again tomorrow.

 

[Justincase]

This thread is very dead, but I'll post some other pictures...and I'd love advice for testing.

How do I go about testing the brazes? I have a some stainless lines with a copperish colored braze on it. I can't imagine them to be a bronze or CuNi braze, but I could be absolutely wrong. I'll get some pictures around and post.

I've also found A LOT of blades assembies that are completely TIG welded up, but I think a few with the two welds...I'll have to look again tomorrow.

Your value is in brazing not in tig welds.
Concentrate on the combustion chamber and fuel lines+nozzles.
In all the low temperature arias they use nickle brazing.
If you want an individual part assayed I have quiet a reliable system.

 

[snoman701]

No....I have no clue how to identify whether there is gold in it. Once I know there's gold in it ill try to figure out how to recover (reverse ar?)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[snoman701]

This thread is very dead, but I'll post some other pictures...and I'd love advice for testing.

How do I go about testing the brazes? I have a some stainless lines with a copperish colored braze on it. I can't imagine them to be a bronze or CuNi braze, but I could be absolutely wrong. I'll get some pictures around and post.

I've also found A LOT of blades assembies that are completely TIG welded up, but I think a few with the two welds...I'll have to look again tomorrow.

Your value is in brazing not in tig welds.
Concentrate on the combustion chamber and fuel lines+nozzles.
In all the low temperature arias they use nickle brazing.
If you want an individual part assayed I have quiet a reliable system.

So I posted pictures of what I have, but I also have access to blades and stators.

Actually, it seems that the stators have changed a little, and they sort of appear to be keyed similar to how the blades are keyed. Is that correct? I'm not even sure if "keyed" is the proper term.

I assumed that blades, as pictured, were machined from solid as shown...that is, I did not know it to be a fabricated part.

 

[Justincase]

The use of brazing and Platinum ceramic coating is quite fascinating.
The manufacturers are under no obligation to ensure that the metal content is uniform only the operating performance.
So they experiment and alter the production process with out notice or real record.
The underlying principle remand the same.
Each progressive braze must have a lower melting point on the part than the last.
So you have an extremely divers and unpredictable alloy to work with for the brazing.
Then a super alloy for the base that is as lean as the position with in the limits of what the engine will allow and quite reactive.
But other alloy will have some quite exotic components worth while selling on unprocessed.

 

[snoman701]

The use of brazing and Platinum ceramic coating is quite fascinating.
The manufacturers are under no obligation to ensure that the metal content is uniform only the operating performance.
So they experiment and alter the production process with out notice or real record.
The underlying principle remand the same.
Each progressive braze must have a lower melting point on the part than the last.
So you have an extremely divers and unpredictable alloy to work with for the brazing.
Then a super alloy for the base that is as lean as the position with in the limits of what the engine will allow and quite reactive.
But other alloy will have some quite exotic components worth while selling on unprocessed.

I have a reasonable understanding of assembly and fabrication....but I have no understanding of where one should look for the PM's.

In the example etched "rosemont"...This part appears to have a thick nickel, titanium?, or stainless coating, then a brass colored interior. The green is actually where I put a drop of nitric on it to determine if the brass colored interior was reactive to nitric. It was. But I also don't know how reactive a nickel/gold alloy is, so it's sort of hard to say.

Then the blades...like I said, they look like a machined part to me. Any joints are hidden under the plating. Is there a way to etch the plating easily, to determine makeup? Or should I just grind it until I hit base metal?

The parts shown above belong to me, and can be destroyed however I desire.

 

[goldsilverpro]

The gold bearing braze will be 82/18, Au/Ni. This is called Nioro. The silver bearing braze will either be Ag/Cu or Pd/Cu/Ag, the latter is called PaCuSil. The other common braze that is used is a nickel braze containing no PMs. Also, I have worked a lot of blades that are in pairs held together with a braze containing Au and Pd. If I remember right, the Au runs 40% and it takes about 70 pounds of these blades to get an oz of Au. The 2 blades are about 4 or 5" long are easily separated (split) by putting them on the top edge of a 55 gal steel drum that has the lid removed and tapping them a little sideways with a hammer or a heavy leather gloved palm.

The simplest way to test these is with an x-ray gun. You can also use a small file and collect some filings from the braze in a spot on a spot plate, then add a few drops of AR, dissolve, and test for gold with stannous chloride. You can speed up the dissolving by putting the spot plate on a hotplate set on low. On many stators, there is a final coating that covers everything. You must file past the coating. I prefer a very small triangular file.

Test the stators, stator segments, fuel manifolds (inside), those twin blades mentioned above, and the brazed joints on fuel lines for gold.

Except for the fuel manifolds and twin blades, you should be able to easily see the braze joints. For example, in your 1st photo, you can see the braze.

On an engine known to contain gold stators, only about 3 or 4 (15-20%) of them will contain gold braze. The gold on a stator can vary from about 3/4 oz to 4 oz, depending mainly on the type engine.