Looking for some insights/help for Electro-Winning if possible ...

[Heavy-Black-Sand]

Further to some posts i made a few months ago when i began researching leaching technology that is easily/legally available to non-accredited lab owners in Canada ...

One of my mining partners and i obtained some of the Chinese leaching agent ... and a couple months ago, we've began experimenting with the leaching agent on both computer parts and placer gold.

After about a week of experimenting with the leaching agent, we found that we got pretty good/fast leaching results by adding excessive oxygen/air injected into the leach liquid ... with excessive air being injected into the leaching liquid, the gold coatings on the computer parts were stripped in mere minutes, around 5 minutes or less ... while the much thicker placer gold pieces (200 mesh to 20 mesh pieces) we found it took anywhere from a couple/few hours to over-night to completely liquefy the placer gold pieces, depending on their individual sizes.

So now that we have the leaching process dialed in ... we are now experimenting to get the electro-winning process dialed in.

Our 1st electro-winning experiment was a basically bust ... i "wasn't" present when my partner tried the first electro-winning test ... but the visual results from the first test didn't reveal any discernible recovered visible Gold.

For our 2nd electro-winning test .... i "was" present ... and we did get some successful visible Gold recovery ... but our recovery results were only a small fraction of the Gold that was dissolved into the solution ... so, what we are trying to figure out now is; what are we doing wrong that is leading to a very low Gold recovery rate.

Here's how our 2nd electro-winning process went ...

- (1.) ... The Gold ..... we dissolved 3 grams of placer Gold into solution ... multiple previous assays and historical records show the Gold from this drainage averages around 86 percent purity, with the balance being primarily a Silver impurity.


- (2.) ... The Temperature & Stirring ..... using the Slendor base (see PICT 1 - SLENDOR) we were able to heat the pregnant solution to aprox. 41 degrees C ... and we were able to stir the solution while the anode/cathode plates are in the solution ... we had the stir settings on a fairly gentle setting ... you can see the small vortex from the stirrer in between the anode & cathode in the PICT 2 - VORTEX ...


- (3.) ... The Battery Power - 1 ..... at first, we used a 6 volt dc battery ... and connected the copper anode/cathode plates ... lots of bubbles formed off the cathode in the pregnant solution, we pulled the cathode after aprox. 30 minutes for a visual inspection, and basically no noticeable gold formed on the cathode.


- (4.) ... The Battery Power - 2 ..... we then switched out the 6 volt dc battery for a small little 1.5 volt dc battery ... we noticed much fewer bubbles forming off the cathode in the pregnant solution ... we pulled the cathode after being in solution for aprox. 20 to 30 minutes for visual inspection ... and we a noticed a discernible amount of nice bright yellow gold deposited onto the cathode ... see PICT 3 - GOLD RECOVERY ...


- (5.) ... Continuing On ..... we then put the cathode back into the solution, connected to the 1.5 volt dc battery for another 20 to 30 minutes ... we noticed that the amount of bubbling coming off the cathode diminished quite quickly - eventually producing almost no bubbles ... it appeared that very little new Gold was being deposited on the cathode ... after aprox 20 to 30 minutes, we pulled the cathode for visual inspection, and it appeared that very little additional Gold was being deposited onto the cathode ... we also noticed that the color or coating on the previously bright yellow gold turned to a much darker shade ... see PICT 4 - DULL COATING ...

- (6.) ... Stopped Testing ..... after the bright yellow Gold turned dark, we decided to stop the experiment that afternoon, as it was also getting late in the afternoon.


Now we are trying to figure out the following .....

- (A.) ..... why were we only able to recover only a very small amount of the Gold in solution? ... ie; we only recovered aprox. a 1/4 gram Gold at most ... but we dissolved a total of 3 grams of placer gold in solution ... so with an aprox. 86% Gold purity, there should be aprox. 2.58 grams of Gold in the pregnant solution ... which means we only achieved aprox. a 10% recovery rate at best.

- (B.) ..... why did the Gold recovered on the cathode turn from a nice bright yellow color to eventually a much duller/darker shade/coating?

- (C.) ..... what are we doing wrong? ... or what should we be doing differently? ... for example, in hindsight, we could have turned up the stirrer settings quite a bit, which would have dispersed the ions in the pregnant solution much more aggressively ..... should we be using a different battery voltage? - ie; 2.0 or 2.5 volts?.

Any insights greatly appreciated

 

[Yggdrasil]

Further to some posts i made a few months ago when i began researching leaching technology that is easily/legally available to non-accredited lab owners in Canada ...

One of my mining partners and i obtained some of the Chinese leaching agent ... and a couple months ago, we've began experimenting with the leaching agent on both computer parts and placer gold.

After about a week of experimenting with the leaching agent, we found that we got pretty good/fast leaching results by adding excessive oxygen/air injected into the leach liquid ... with excessive air being injected into the leaching liquid, the gold coatings on the computer parts were stripped in mere minutes, around 5 minutes or less ... while the much thicker placer gold pieces (200 mesh to 20 mesh pieces) we found it took anywhere from a couple/few hours to over-night to completely liquefy the placer gold pieces, depending on their individual sizes.

So now that we have the leaching process dialed in ... we are now experimenting to get the electro-winning process dialed in.

Our 1st electro-winning experiment was a basically bust ... i "wasn't" present when my partner tried the first electro-winning test ... but the visual results from the first test didn't reveal any discernible recovered visible Gold.

For our 2nd electro-winning test .... i "was" present ... and we did get some successful visible Gold recovery ... but our recovery results were only a small fraction of the Gold that was dissolved into the solution ... so, what we are trying to figure out now is; what are we doing wrong that is leading to a very low Gold recovery rate.

Here's how our 2nd electro-winning process went ...

- (1.) ... The Gold ..... we dissolved 3 grams of placer Gold into solution ... multiple previous assays and historical records show the Gold from this drainage averages around 86 percent purity, with the balance being primarily a Silver impurity.


- (2.) ... The Temperature & Stirring ..... using the Slendor base (see PICT 1 - SLENDOR) we were able to heat the pregnant solution to aprox. 41 degrees C ... and we were able to stir the solution while the anode/cathode plates are in the solution ... we had the stir settings on a fairly gentle setting ... you can see the small vortex from the stirrer in between the anode & cathode in the PICT 2 - VORTEX ...


- (3.) ... The Battery Power - 1 ..... at first, we used a 6 volt dc battery ... and connected the copper anode/cathode plates ... lots of bubbles formed off the cathode in the pregnant solution, we pulled the cathode after aprox. 30 minutes for a visual inspection, and basically no noticeable gold formed on the cathode.


- (4.) ... The Battery Power - 2 ..... we then switched out the 6 volt bc battery for a small little 1.5 volt dc battery ... we noticed much fewer bubbles forming off the cathode in the pregnant solution ... we pulled the cathode after being in solution for aprox. 20 to 30 minutes for visual inspection ... and we a noticed a discernible amount of nice bright yellow gold deposited onto the cathode ... see PICT 3 - GOLD RECOVERY ...


- (5.) ... Continuing On ..... we then put the cathode back into the solution, connected to the 1.5 volt dc battery for another 20 to 30 minutes ... we noticed that the amount of bubbling coming off the cathode diminished quite quickly - eventually producing almost no bubbles ... it appeared that very little new Gold was being deposited on the cathode ... after aprox 20 to 30 minutes, we pulled the cathode for visual inspection, and it appeared that very little additional Gold was being deposited onto the cathode ... we also noticed that the color or coating on the previously bright yellow gold turned to a much darker shade ... see PICT 4 - DULL COATING ...

- (6.) ... Stopped Testing ..... after the bright yellow Gold turned dark, we decided to stop the experiment that afternoon, as it was also getting late in the afternoon.


Now we are trying to figure out the following .....

- (A.) ..... why were we only able to recover only a very small amount of the Gold in solution? ... ie; we only recovered aprox. a 1/4 gram Gold at most ... but we dissolved a total of 3 grams of placer gold in solution ... so with an aprox. 86% Gold purity, there should be aprox. 2.58 grams of Gold in the pregnant solution ... which means we only achieved aprox. a 10% recovery rate at best.

- (B.) ..... why did the Gold recovered on the cathode turn from a nice bright yellow color to eventually a much duller/darker shade/coating?

- (C.) ..... what are we doing wrong? ... or what should we be doing differently? ... for example, in hindsight, we could have turned up the stirrer settings quite a bit, which would have dispersed the ions in the pregnant solution much more aggressively ..... should we be using a different battery voltage? - ie; 2.0 or 2.5 volts?.

Any insights greatly appreciated

That is the challenge withe these so called Green leachants.
They are for the most part Cyanide derivatives packed into a package that don't disclose their origin.
Usually some species of Ferro or Ferri Cyanides or Cyanates.

What they do not do is inform you how to get your Gold out of solution.
I fear the concentrate is too low to be suitable for ordinary electro-winning.
So what the (unlucky) few that has jumped on this particular wagon do, is either Active Carbon, resin or cementing.

At which pH do you run it?

Is it JinChan bye the way?

 

[Heavy-Black-Sand]

That is the challenge withe these so called Green leachants.
They are for the most part Cyanide derivatives packed into a package that don't disclose their origin.
Usually some species of Ferro or Ferri Cyanides or Cyanates.

What they do not do is inform you how to get your Gold out of solution.
I fear the concentrate is too low to be suitable for ordinary electro-winning.
So what the (unlucky) few that has jumped on this particular wagon do, is either Active Carbon, resin or cementing.

At which pH do you run it?

Is it JinChan bye the way?

When we did the initial leaching/dissolving process ... the PH was aprox. 11 ... however, the PH level is something we overlooked when we did the electrowinning ...

i suspect the PH would have been similar to 11 when we started electrowinning ... we didn't periodically check the PH during electrowinning ... and the PH might have changed sometime after adding the voltage, as we saw varying amounts of bubbling coming off the cathode over time, to the point where the bubbling on the cathode essentially ceased.

Also ... wondering if our temperature of 41C was just a little to far into the hot side?

We used the eco-Goldex product.

 

[Yggdrasil]

When we did the initial leaching/dissolving process ... the PH was aprox. 11 ... however, the PH level is something we overlooked when we did the electrowinning ...

i suspect the PH would have been similar to 11 when we started electrowinning ... we didn't periodically check the PH during electrowinning ... and the PH might have changed sometime after adding the voltage, as we saw varying amounts of bubbling coming off the cathode over time, to the point where the bubbling on the cathode essentially ceased.

Also ... wondering if our temperature of 41C was just a little to far into the hot side?

We used the eco-Goldex product.

Standard "Green" stuff that is actually cloaked Ferro or Ferri Cyanides but with added some concoction that makes it hard to get the Gold out.
You would be better off using standard Ferro or Ferri Cyanides.
I think cementing on Zinc will be the best option for you.
Then just wash the powder well and redissolve in a proper leach and drop in a standard way after.

 

[Heavy-Black-Sand]

Standard "Green" stuff that is actually cloaked Ferro or Ferri Cyanides but with added some concoction that makes it hard to get the Gold out.
You would be better off using standard Ferro or Ferri Cyanides.
I think cementing on Zinc will be the best option for you.
Then just wash the powder well and redissolve in a proper leach and drop in a standard way after.

Ok ... thanks ... I'll start looking into whether i can obtain Ferro or Ferri Cyanides in Canada without a special license ..... but when previously talking to a extremely experienced Gold Miner/Refiner here in Canada with 50+ years in the business, he said it's now basically impossible to obtain, unless you have a special license ... which is why we initially steered towards the Chinese concoctions.

 

[kurtak]

We used the eco-Goldex product.

Which Eco-Goldex product are you working with ?

I ask because they have 2 different products - the O product which is their product recommended for leaching ores - & their E product which is recommended for leaching gold plated E-waste

If it is the E product you are in fact working with a potassium cyanide leaching process & therefore MUST take ALL of the same safety precautions when working with Eco-Goldex as used when working with actual potassium cyanide !!!!

Please read what I posted in this thread (read both of my posts) -----------

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-refining-methods.30710/#post-322052

Eco-Goldex (the E product) is just about one of the worst (if not the worst) product I can think of for leaching gold

It does a very good job of putting gold into solution (& that is because it is in fact a potassium cyanide leach)

However - it is VERY DIFFICULT to get the gold back out of solution (or at least very difficult to get ALL the gold back out of solution) once the gold is put into solution with this product

That is because at the foundation of the Eco-Goldex (E product) they use potassium ferricyanide - which is potassium cyanide complexed with iron

Potassium ferricyanide is in itself a very safe product & is in fact used in the food industry & that is because once the cyanide has been complexed with the iron the cyanide has been locked up & is no longer available to work as "free" cyanide (which is why Eco-Goldex is able to get away with "claiming" it is an eco friendly product)

So - in order for potassium ferricyanide to work as "free" cyanide (& therefore dissolve gold) you have to disassociate (or break) the iron bond from the potassium cyanide

There are two ways to disassociate that iron bond from the potassium cyanide in order to "free" up the potassium cyanide so that it can work as free cyanide (to dissolve gold)

1) is to break the iron bond with UV light --- however - this is not as simple as dissolving the potassium ferricyanide in water & exposing it any old UV --- the UV has to be within a particular spectrum AND the condition of exposure have to be just right

Deano has posted a great deal of info about this so you can do a search using potassium ferricyanide & Deano to learn more about this --- & it IS NOT anywhere near as easy as it sounds/looks

There have been a good many number of members that have tried this with far more failures then successes

In other words - trying to break the iron bond from potassium cyanide in order to free up the cyanide to leach gold is far more complicated then just dissolving the potassium ferricyanide & exposing it to UV --- the UV - AND - the conditions have to be just right for it to actually free up the cyanide & make it work

2) the other option for disassociating the iron from the potassium cyanide is to do it chemically --- this is what Eco-Goldex has done

They have done this by complexing 6 other chemicals - in a fusion process - with the potassium ferricyanide - so that when you dissolve the Eco-Goldex product the "fused" chemical complex it disassociates the iron bond from the potassium cyanide --- thereby "freeing" up the potassium cyanide to dissolve gold --- which in turn means you are now working with actual potassium cyanide - which in turn means you MUST now take ALL the same safety precautions as you would if you had started with actual potassium cyanide in the first place

AND - the BIG problem with the Eco-Goldex product - because of the 6 other chemicals they have complexed with potassium ferricyanide - makes it VERY DIFFICULT to get the gold back out of solution once you have dissolved the gold with this product

I am not saying that you can't/wont get gold back - just that it is VERY difficult - AND - because you are working with cyanide - there is no way to test your solution to be sure you got ALL the gold back - unless you have AA (Atomic Absorbtion) &/or ICP (Induction Coupled Plasma) testing equipment

Bottom line here - this product (Eco-Goldex - E series) has been tested by several of our very best members about 8 years ago when it first came out (including me but not limited to me) & the conclusion is DON"T be fooled into buying &/or using this product because --------------

1) though it does a very good job of putting gold into solution

2) it is VERY difficult getting the gold back out of solution

3) & if you do get gold back - there is no way to tell if you got it ALL unless you have AA &/or ICP for testing the solution

4) & make no mistake about it - you are in fact working with potassium cyanide - so ALL the same safety precautions MUST be adhered to as would be if you started with potassium cyanide in the first place

5) & Eco-Goldex is no more eco friendly then working with actual potassium cyanide - it is ONLY eco friendly BEFORE it is dissolve - once it is dissolved it is in fact potassium cyanide

6) & that is because with their fused 6 chemical compound - when it is dissolved - it disassociates the iron from the potassium cyanide allowing the potassium cyanide to dissolve the gold --- meaning you now have actual "free" potassium cyanide --- which in turn can/will produces hydrogen cyanide - which is the gas that can/will kill you

7) & it is these other 6 chemicals they have complexed with the potassium ferricyanide that makes getting the gold back so very difficult

As you are now finding out !!!

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

Standard "Green" stuff that is actually cloaked Ferro or Ferri Cyanides but with added some concoction that makes it hard to get the Gold out.

That is correct - the problem with these "so called" eco friendly leaches is all the other chemicals they have complexed with the potassium ferricyanide (which disassociates the iron & frees up the cyanide) & it is all those other chemicals in the complex that make getting the gold back difficult

You would be better off using standard Ferro or Ferri Cyanides.

The problem with using straight up ferri or ferro cyanides is that you still need to disassociate the iron from the cyanide to get the cyanide to do the work of dissolving the gold - which can be done with UV --- BUT - you have to get both the UV spectrum & the conditions of exposure just right for the disassociation of the iron from the cyanide in order for the cyanide to do the work of dissolving the gold --- & this is NOT as easy as it sounds &/or looks

So - with the products like Eco-Goldex you run into problems in getting your gold back from solution

With actual straight up ferri or ferro cyanides you run into problems with getting the gold to go into solution (dissolve) --- however IF (the VERY BIG IF) you can get this to work it is easier to get the gold back compared to getting the gold back from a product like Eco-Goldex

The bottom line here is that whether you start by using Eco-Goldex or start with just actual potassium ferricyanide --- once you disassociate the iron from the cyanide you are then in fact working with potassium cyanide which means that you then MUST treat everything you do with ALL of the same safety precautions as you would if you had started with actual potassium cyanide in the first place - & have none of the problems associated with the Eco-Goldex product &/or actual potassium ferricyanide

So - IMO - if you can not get actual potassium or sodium cyanide to work with - you are much better served to go with any other methods (acid leching, smelting etc.) used in the recovery/refining of gold - then trying to use a product like Eco-Goldex &/or actual potassium ferricyanide

Just my opinion - having tried both the Eco-Goldex product & actual Potassium ferricyanide - thinking they would be short cuts --- they are NOT

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

while the much thicker placer gold pieces (200 mesh to 20 mesh pieces)

Gold from this drainage averages around 86 percent purity

You would be MUCH better served to melt/smelt this gold with silver to bring the gold content down to 25% gold (& up to 75% silver) and then part the gold from the silver with nitric - rather then try to leach it with cyanide (which is what Eco-Goldex is)

For one thing - cyanide dissolves both gold & silver - so when you go to recover the metals dissolved in the cyanide you are just going to re -recover both of those metals - & that does not matter whether you recover them with electro winning or by cementation with zinc

In other words - if you dissolve a gold/silver alloy with cyanide - when you go to recover the metals dissolved in the cyanide you are just going to recover the same dissolved gold/silver --- you then NEED to wash ALL the cyanide out of the recovered gold/silver --- & you will then still need to part the gold from the silver with acid

So - why not just part it with acid in the first place ?

Kurt

 

[Heavy-Black-Sand]

Which Eco-Goldex product are you working with ?

I ask because they have 2 different products - the O product which is their product recommended for leaching ores - & their E product which is recommended for leaching gold plated E-waste

If it is the E product you are in fact working with a potassium cyanide leaching process & therefore MUST take ALL of the same safety precautions when working with Eco-Goldex as used when working with actual potassium cyanide !!!!

Please read what I posted in this thread (read both of my posts) -----------

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-refining-methods.30710/#post-322052

Eco-Goldex (the E product) is just about one of the worst (if not the worst) product I can think of for leaching gold

It does a very good job of putting gold into solution (& that is because it is in fact a potassium cyanide leach)

However - it is VERY DIFFICULT to get the gold back out of solution (or at least very difficult to get ALL the gold back out of solution) once the gold is put into solution with this product

That is because at the foundation of the Eco-Goldex (E product) they use potassium ferricyanide - which is potassium cyanide complexed with iron

Potassium ferricyanide is in itself a very safe product & is in fact used in the food industry & that is because once the cyanide has been complexed with the iron the cyanide has been locked up & is no longer available to work as "free" cyanide (which is why Eco-Goldex is able to get away with "claiming" it is an eco friendly product)

So - in order for potassium ferricyanide to work as "free" cyanide (& therefore dissolve gold) you have to disassociate (or break) the iron bond from the potassium cyanide

There are two ways to disassociate that iron bond from the potassium cyanide in order to "free" up the potassium cyanide so that it can work as free cyanide (to dissolve gold)

1) is to break the iron bond with UV light --- however - this is not as simple as dissolving the potassium ferricyanide in water & exposing it any old UV --- the UV has to be within a particular spectrum AND the condition of exposure have to be just right

Deano has posted a great deal of info about this so you can do a search using potassium ferricyanide & Deano to learn more about this --- & it IS NOT anywhere near as easy as it sounds/looks

There have been a good many number of members that have tried this with far more failures then successes

In other words - trying to break the iron bond from potassium cyanide in order to free up the cyanide to leach gold is far more complicated then just dissolving the potassium ferricyanide & exposing it to UV --- the UV - AND - the conditions have to be just right for it to actually free up the cyanide & make it work

2) the other option for disassociating the iron from the potassium cyanide is to do it chemically --- this is what Eco-Goldex has done

They have done this by complexing 6 other chemicals - in a fusion process - with the potassium ferricyanide - so that when you dissolve the Eco-Goldex product the "fused" chemical complex it disassociates the iron bond from the potassium cyanide --- thereby "freeing" up the potassium cyanide to dissolve gold --- which in turn means you are now working with actual potassium cyanide - which in turn means you MUST now take ALL the same safety precautions as you would if you had started with actual potassium cyanide in the first place

AND - the BIG problem with the Eco-Goldex product - because of the 6 other chemicals they have complexed with potassium ferricyanide - makes it VERY DIFFICULT to get the gold back out of solution once you have dissolved the gold with this product

I am not saying that you can't/wont get gold back - just that it is VERY difficult - AND - because you are working with cyanide - there is no way to test your solution to be sure you got ALL the gold back - unless you have AA (Atomic Absorbtion) &/or ICP (Induction Coupled Plasma) testing equipment

Bottom line here - this product (Eco-Goldex - E series) has been tested by several of our very best members about 8 years ago when it first came out (including me but not limited to me) & the conclusion is DON"T be fooled into buying &/or using this product because --------------

1) though it does a very good job of putting gold into solution

2) it is VERY difficult getting the gold back out of solution

3) & if you do get gold back - there is no way to tell if you got it ALL unless you have AA &/or ICP for testing the solution

4) & make no mistake about it - you are in fact working with potassium cyanide - so ALL the same safety precautions MUST be adhered to as would be if you started with potassium cyanide in the first place

5) & Eco-Goldex is no more eco friendly then working with actual potassium cyanide - it is ONLY eco friendly BEFORE it is dissolve - once it is dissolved it is in fact potassium cyanide

6) & that is because with their fused 6 chemical compound - when it is dissolved - it disassociates the iron from the potassium cyanide allowing the potassium cyanide to dissolve the gold --- meaning you now have actual "free" potassium cyanide --- which in turn can/will produces hydrogen cyanide - which is the gas that can/will kill you

7) & it is these other 6 chemicals they have complexed with the potassium ferricyanide that makes getting the gold back so very difficult

As you are now finding out !!!

Kurt

We are using the "E" series ... if we were to re-order, we'd switch to the "O" series.

 

[Heavy-Black-Sand]

So - why not just part it with acid in the first place ?

Kurt

From my research ... it appeared that electrowinning was the overall safest recovery method ... using the least amount of hazardous/volatile chemicals ... it could be wrong.

 

[Heavy-Black-Sand]

One of the problems we've been having during our electrowinning experiments is; the build up of black slimes on the copper plates ... my partner mentioned yesterday that this could be interfering with the E.W. process ...

so i did some research on the ChatGPT ai engine yesterday about the black slime build up on the copper plates ... and it provided intel on how the black slime build up on the plates can indeed inhibit the E.W. process ... i've attached a pict of the black slime that is quickly coating our plates.

 

[kurtak]

We used the eco-Goldex product.

OK - yesterday we established that you are using the E series Eco Goldex product so you are dealing with cyanide solutions from which you are then trying to electro win your gold --- but you are having problems with the electro winning working

- (3.) ... The Battery Power - 1 ..... at first, we used a 6 volt dc battery

The Battery Power - 2 ..... we then switched out the 6 volt dc battery for a small little 1.5 volt dc battery

First of all - if you are going to set up an electro winning cell forget the batteries & get an actual adjustable (volts &/or amps) power supply - something like these ------------

https://www.bing.com/search?q=ajust...DSAQk2Mjk1OGowajSoAgiwAgE&FORM=ANAB01&PC=U531

Though batteries will provide "some" results (without going into great detail) batteries are very inefficient at delivering the amps for effective depositing of the metal(s) to the cathode (quick) example - depending on the resistance of the cell the amps being delivered can drop of fairly fast reducing effective depositing of metal to the cathode

for another 20 to 30 minutes ... we noticed that the amount of bubbling coming off the cathode diminished quite quickly

That is because after an hour of running the amps the battery was providing dropped off & are no long effective for running the cell

get a real power supply - you don't need an expensive one to start with for learning

and connected the copper anode/cathode plates

For a winning cell you want (at least) the anode to be inert (something that "will not" be effected by the electrolyte - something like carbon, titanium, or stainless steel (SS provided it is not an acidic "chloride" electrolyte)

That is because if the anode is not inert to the electrolyte - as the cell runs it (the electrolyte) will start dissolving the metal the anode is made of & that metal will then start depositing over to the cathode

Example; - you are working with a cyanide solution - cyanide - besides dissolving gold & silver (your placer gold) will also dissolve copper

So when you first start the cell it will first start depositing the gold AND silver that is dissolved in the cyanide at the cathode

Then - as the cell start winning the gold/silver from the electrolyte - it is "freeing up" the cyanide in the electrolyte & that "free" cyanide is then able to dissolve more metal

So - the only other metal in your cell that cyanide is able to dissolve is now our copper anode - which means now not only do you have gold & silver in your electrolyte - but now have gold/silver/copper in your electrolyte & all 3 of those metals will now start depositing (winning) to the cathode

That is likely why after running the cell for a while you start to get a black deposit at the cathode

It is the copper being dissolved at the anode - as a result of the cyanide being freed up from winning the gold/silver & because copper is now going into the electrolyte it is then winning copper/gold/silver to the cathode & the longer the cell runs the more copper it will deposit to the cathode

In effect - because you are using copper as an anode you are actually running a "parting" cell (like a silver cell or copper cell used for "refining" silver or copper) instead of a winning cell

But why is the deposit black instead of copper colored ?

Several reasons ------------

1) because the copper being deposited are deposited as ultra fine particles they look black instead of copper color

2) because ultra fine particles of copper/gold/silver are being deposited it looks black instead of any one of those colors

3) because the electrolyte is made with Eco-Goldex which has iron in it & some iron (as an oxide) is being deposited at the cathode "after the cell has run for awhile" (this is speculation on my part) &/or sodium which is also used in making the Eco-Goldex product

Because you are dealing with a cyanide based electrolyte I would be using a SS (Stainless Steel) anode & in fact would use both a SS anode & cathode

Why a SS cathode (as well as SS anode) ?

Because the metal deposited to a SS cathode will peel off the cathode easier then meal deposited to a copper cathode

For electro winning the other option is to make what is known as a "flow though" winning cell - they work better on solutions/electrolytes that are more dilute

here is what I am talking about ----------

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/taking-a-great-idea-and-applying-modern-techniques.24899/

& in this thread Deano posted how to build one if you don't have a 3D printer to make one

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/things-which-may-be-of-interest-to-members.21526/#post-222376

Kurt

 

[Heavy-Black-Sand]

OK - yesterday we established that you are using the E series Eco Goldex product so you are dealing with cyanide solutions from which you are then trying to electro win your gold --- but you are having problems with the electro winning working




First of all - if you are going to set up an electro winning cell forget the batteries & get an actual adjustable (volts &/or amps) power supply - something like these ------------

https://www.bing.com/search?q=ajust...DSAQk2Mjk1OGowajSoAgiwAgE&FORM=ANAB01&PC=U531

Though batteries will provide "some" results (without going into great detail) batteries are very inefficient at delivering the amps for effective depositing of the metal(s) to the cathode (quick) example - depending on the resistance of the cell the amps being delivered can drop of fairly fast reducing effective depositing of metal to the cathode



That is because after an hour of running the amps the battery was providing dropped off & are no long effective for running the cell

get a real power supply - you don't need an expensive one to start with for learning


For a winning cell you want (at least) the anode to be inert (something that "will not" be effected by the electrolyte - something like carbon, titanium, or stainless steel (SS provided it is not an acidic "chloride" electrolyte)

That is because if the anode is not inert to the electrolyte - as the cell runs it (the electrolyte) will start dissolving the metal the anode is made of & that metal will then start depositing over to the cathode

Example; - you are working with a cyanide solution - cyanide - besides dissolving gold & silver (your placer gold) will also dissolve copper

So when you first start the cell it will first start depositing the gold AND silver that is dissolved in the cyanide at the cathode

Then - as the cell start winning the gold/silver from the electrolyte - it is "freeing up" the cyanide in the electrolyte & that "free" cyanide is then able to dissolve more metal

So - the only other metal in your cell that cyanide is able to dissolve is now our copper anode - which means now not only do you have gold & silver in your electrolyte - but now have gold/silver/copper in your electrolyte & all 3 of those metals will now start depositing (winning) to the cathode

That is likely why after running the cell for a while you start to get a black deposit at the cathode

It is the copper being dissolved at the anode - as a result of the cyanide being freed up from winning the gold/silver & because copper is now going into the electrolyte it is then winning copper/gold/silver to the cathode & the longer the cell runs the more copper it will deposit to the cathode

In effect - because you are using copper as an anode you are actually running a "parting" cell (like a silver cell or copper cell used for "refining" silver or copper) instead of a winning cell

But why is the deposit black instead of copper colored ?

Several reasons ------------

1) because the copper being deposited are deposited as ultra fine particles they look black instead of copper color

2) because ultra fine particles of copper/gold/silver are being deposited it looks black instead of any one of those colors

3) because the electrolyte is made with Eco-Goldex which has iron in it & some iron (as an oxide) is being deposited at the cathode "after the cell has run for awhile" (this is speculation on my part) &/or sodium which is also used in making the Eco-Goldex product

Because you are dealing with a cyanide based electrolyte I would be using a SS (Stainless Steel) anode & in fact would use both a SS anode & cathode

Why a SS cathode (as well as SS anode) ?

Because the metal deposited to a SS cathode will peel off the cathode easier then meal deposited to a copper cathode

For electro winning the other option is to make what is known as a "flow though" winning cell - they work better on solutions/electrolytes that are more dilute

here is what I am talking about ----------

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/taking-a-great-idea-and-applying-modern-techniques.24899/

& in this thread Deano posted how to build one if you don't have a 3D printer to make one

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/things-which-may-be-of-interest-to-members.21526/#post-222376

Kurt

Thanks for the intel Kurt ... by the quality of your writing on this subject, it sounds like your quite knowledgeable on the subject.

We are replacing the copper plates with stainless right away.