Losing it

[TheCygnusJourneyman]

Hello there,

It seems that I am at quite a loss; for after three months of following the instructions in the forum,
i still cannot retrieve any gold from PC and mobile phone scrap. I've also been reading Hoke's book.

I've tried using a weak nitric acid solution (from sulfuric acid and potassium nitrate + heat) onto gold-plated scrap, was able to isolate the gold fins that were left after the reaction. However, when I placed the fins into my crucible (I use a graphite crucible with an electric furnace that goes up to 1150C), these burn to a black charcoal.

The same thing happens when I isolate the black precipitate from a gold deplating cell that I had made (based upon the cell developed by Steve Sackett). The precipitate (which I had hoped was gold) was just a carbon-like crisp after heating it to 1100C.

I tried the Aqua Regia Method three times, with three 1Kg batches of gold plated PC/LCD TV components (as far as I can observe, these had no Iron). By the third time, I made sure that I had properly filtered the solution after the reaction had taken place to the full, and neutralized the residual acid with commercial grade urea, before using SMB. When the SMB was mixed, there did appear what looked like black, shiny specks rising to the surface, along with the obvious Sulfur Dioxide. I carefully decanted the solution after a day, and at the botton of the bucket that I was using, there was mostly a white powdery salt, with black specs. From a thread that I read from the forum, describing a similar scenario, I reasoned that it was likely Copper (I) Chloride. So I made some nitric acid, and poured it into the reaction bucket. The white salt had dissolved, leaving a brown precipitate. I rinsed the precipitate with water, decanted again, and left the precipitate to dry.

Guess what - It had also became a carbon-like crisp after heating.

Is this stupid or what? Or am I stupid? Or is this a sign that there's no retrievable gold in my scrap?

 

[nickvc]

Well your trying hard so a helping hand seems appropriate. The items that your trying to refine are fairly low grade materials and my first piece of advice would be to remove base metals first to concentrate your values as you were doing with your cell, forget about melting until you have a good amount of high purity gold ie refined through either Aqua Regia or the Chlorox processes. Collect all your black powders and foils and give them a good wash in warm Hydrochloric Acid until no more colour is in the solution and then process with either of the refining methods AR or Chlorox you choose using the minimum amount of reactants necessary this will make dropping your gold much easier. With your solutions that you already have check with stannous and if you have values cement them out with copper sheet and again add them together with the carbon like residues from your melts for further refining. Your close to getting it right just slow down and go that last few steps and your first button will be in your hand.
Good luck and don't give up, keep reading and you'll see why you aren't quite there.

 

[TheCygnusJourneyman]

Aha, so there's a little more processing to go... The instructions that I have followed are for high-yielding scrap, such as 486 CPUs and ISA board fingers. There doesn't seem to be much gold in the newer components, if at all. That means I'll need more scrap.

Where I live, no one has any PCs or digital electronics that old, not even the computer stores, and NOBODY has any salvaging rights at the dump; neither the council, nor the waste company allow me to scavenge. All of my scrap has come from friends, family, and a computer shop that I used to work in. Everyone else have been apathetic or apprehensive when asked to give away e-waste or obsolete electronics, and would prefer to throw it to the dump rather than to give it away. The local scrapyard guys even had the gall to ask if I was a thief. I live in a dumb town run by ultra-conservative dumb dumb heads.

Enough ranting - my problem is that I need a steady supply of some good-quality scrap. I'll probably have to buy some online.

What would cause the carbon buildup in my melts - is it junk from my precipitate, or is it some of the graphite peeling away from the crucible?

It appears that most of the forum members use gas torches with flux on a silicate crucible; is this the preferred melt method?

Is Copper sheeting preferred over SMB for precipitating gold?

 

[dtectr]

Everyone else have been apathetic or apprehensive when asked to give away e-waste or obsolete electronics, and would prefer to throw it to the dump rather than to give it away. The local scrapyard guys even had the gall to ask if I was a thief. I live in a dumb town run by ultra-conservative dumb dumb heads.

:lol: :lol: Best description of the bureaucracy I've heard yet!! I love it!
[Note: The caps that follow indicate indicate the key aspects of my spiel; I'm not shouting at anyone.]

I tell people that I recycle electronics, mainly for a "HOBBY", as I've been off work for nearly a year. I "JUST TEAR THE COMPUTERS DOWN & RECYCLE THE SEPARATE PARTS _ THERE"S MAINLY COPPER & ALUMINUM." I also "BREAK THE PLASTICS THAT DON"T RECYCLE DOWN INTO SMALLER SIZES TO TAKE UP LESS SPACE IN LANDFILL."

There's no protection from greedy people who will hang onto one piece of junk merely because they don't want you to make anything off of it. Its a strange, sad but true side of human nature.

good luck & take the time to hone your skills & learn the science.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Everyone else have been apathetic or apprehensive when asked to give away e-waste or obsolete electronics, and would prefer to throw it to the dump rather than to give it away. The local scrapyard guys even had the gall to ask if I was a thief. I live in a dumb town run by ultra-conservative dumb dumb heads.

:lol: :lol: Best description of the bureaucracy I've heard yet!! I love it!
[Note: The caps that follow indicate indicate the key aspects of my spiel; I'm not shouting at anyone.]

I tell people that I recycle electronics, mainly for a "HOBBY", as I've been off work for nearly a year. I "JUST TEAR THE COMPUTERS DOWN & RECYCLE THE SEPARATE PARTS _ THERE"S MAINLY COPPER & ALUMINUM." I also "BREAK THE PLASTICS THAT DON"T RECYCLE DOWN INTO SMALLER SIZES TO TAKE UP LESS SPACE IN LANDFILL."

There's no protection from greedy people who will hang onto one piece of junk merely because they don't want you to make anything off of it. Its a strange, sad but true side of human nature.

good luck & take the time to hone your skills & learn the science.

When you tear apart your computers save the cases and mix the plastic in with the small metal parts in the case and put the cover back on. No comments about this being deceptive as it is not ment in that frame of mind. The scrap yard will buy meatl with plastic, glass, insulation and other items so I don't feel this is being deceptive. It is keeping the items out of the land fill.

 

[goldenchild]

It appears that most of the forum members use gas torches with flux on a silicate crucible; is this the preferred melt method?

Is Copper sheeting preferred over SMB for precipitating gold?

Many of us use propane, oxycetalene or oxycetalene + O2 rigs. Its whatever is best for you and can get the job done.

If you are going for the highest purity gold you will have to use SMB or some other non "cementing" method to precipitate gold. Cementing with copper is usually reserved for getting silver out of solutions, a "stock pot" or when someone makes a big mistake and doesnt know what they have in their solution(s).

 

[patnor1011]

Plastic can be recycled, sold or reused. No point of it being mixed with metals or going to landfill. I dont know how is that in USA but here in Europe you can sell plastics if separated by types and have higher volumes, or at least drop that in recycling places in dedicated containers for plastics.

I had discussed here previously that my friend have perfect way how to get rid of huge amounts of plastics and it is not harmful for enviroment. Plastic is cut to 2-4mm pieces and then mixed with concrete. This is adding value to concrete which is less expensive, more heat insulating and is more lighter. It can be used for floors..... you name it. You can form and make bricks from that material...

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Plastic can be recycled, sold or reused. No point of it being mixed with metals or going to landfill. I dont know how is that in USA but here in Europe you can sell plastics if separated by types and have higher volumes, or at least drop that in recycling places in dedicated containers for plastics.

I had discussed here previously that my friend have perfect way how to get rid of huge amounts of plastics and it is not harmful for enviroment. Plastic is cut to 2-4mm pieces and then mixed with concrete. This is adding value to concrete which is less expensive, more heat insulating and is more lighter. It can be used for floors..... you name it. You can form and make bricks from that material...

Unless it is aproved by the local building codes here in the US you might not be able to do that. They frown upon not doing things by code. But I feel your point of view might be a good one if it can be used for that purpose. But it will not have the strength of concrete and might weaken the structure under certain circumstances.

 

[patnor1011]

Sure it is not that strong but you may use that when doing floor heating, many places where it will not be required to be super strong. Many companies already using this as addition to concrete the just use some fancy name. It is plain and simple. The only secret ingredient needed is plain industrial washing up liquid - no need for extra lemon smell lol, that is added in small amount to water because plastic tend to be charged with static electricity sometimes so this washing up liquid - called plastificator will make sure that plastics will not be reacting as magnets but make homogenous mass when mixed with concrete.