Making copperas

[dreammicke]

hello can you juse Iron ore to do copperas

 

[butcher]

Ore can be very complicated, yes you can make copperas in solution with ore, actually when they are leaching Iron type ore with dilute sulfuric acid to remove iron and other metals from the ore to concentrate the gold in the ore, copperas is made (as well as other metal sulfates).

But with all of the different combinations of substances in ore, which can complicate the solution, I would not use ore to make copperas, where I needed an iron sulfate to precipitate gold from a solution of gold chloride, here I would want as pure of a product as possible, Iron metal is abundunt and cheap, even small loses of gold can be very expensive.

 

[dreammicke]

i asket bekos i have pure iron ore from the iron mines here in sweden and i whas tinking thet wode be the best sorse fore to make copperas

 

[butcher]

You can make quite a bit of copperas from Iron metal, I like to use the iron laminate from old transformers, I have made several posts on the subject, that explain the process.

When done right you can make really pure copperas crystals, using the soft iron metal from old transformers.

I will normally make a batch and it will last me quite a while.

How you prepare it, has a lot to do with if you can store it, to where it will not oxidize, and will still be good to precipitate gold with, or test for gold in solution.

 

[AndyWilliams]

Hey guys,

I'm going to have a go at making Copperas. Just want to make sure I'm clear on the process.

1. Use the iron laminate from a transformer (I'm hoping someone can confirm that I took a pic of the right stuff).
2. Incinerate the iron laminate to remove any covering.
3. Use Sulfuric Acid at a 10% concentration (using distilled water, heat slightly if necessary) to dissolve iron laminate.
4. Filter to remove solids.
5. Evaporate and remove crystals.
6. Wash crystals with alcohol (IPA? is this step necessary?).
6. Can add water and a few drops of acid to dissolve crystals so as to purify even further.
7. Store with a few drops of sulfuric to avoid browning.

Is there anything I'm missing?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Geo]

you have the right material.
yes, incinerate.
10% is good. automotive battery electrolyte works well too. heat is recommended.
filter, yes.
evaporate to crystals.
ive never washed with alcohol.
use crystals as is. do not dissolve the crystals.
store submerged in sulfuric. any exposure to the air will decompose the crystals.

 

[AndyWilliams]

you have the right material.
yes, incinerate.
10% is good. automotive battery electrolyte works well too. heat is recommended.
filter, yes.
evaporate to crystals.
ive never washed with alcohol.
use crystals as is. do not dissolve the crystals.
store submerged in sulfuric. any exposure to the air will decompose the crystals.

Thanks Geo,

Do you use them "wet?"

 

[butcher]

I use the green copperas crystals wet or damp, it will not effect the test for gold in a spot plate, or the precipitation of gold from solution.

After burning off shellac from your iron and rinsing it in water I would cut the iron sheets into small pieces, this helps the acid to dissolve it easier.

I also like to recrystallize the copperas, any time you do this you will end up with a more pure product, when the first crystallize they are really pure, but the crystals can hold some impurity with the clumps of the more pure crystals, by dissolving these in a heated solution filtering and making the copperas back into crystals the second time will give you a much purer product, I have never used the alcohol wash and cannot comment on its benefit.

Keep us posted on your results.

 

[AndyWilliams]

I use the green copperas crystals wet or damp, it will not effect the test for gold in a spot plate, or the precipitation of gold from solution.

After burning off shellac from your iron and rinsing it in water I would cut the iron sheets into small pieces, this helps the acid to dissolve it easier.

I also like to recrystallize the copperas, any time you do this you will end up with a more pure product, when the first crystallize they are really pure, but the crystals can hold some impurity with the clumps of the more pure crystals, by dissolving these in a heated solution filtering and making the copperas back into crystals the second time will give you a much purer product, I have never used the alcohol wash and cannot comment on its benefit.

Keep us posted on your results.

Thanks butcher, will do.

 

[Harold_V]

I used ferrous sulfate for precipitation for quite some time, before switching to SO2. The primary reason for my conversion was to reduce the volume of solution I had to handle, as I always dissolved the crystals before use.

I used to buy mine from chemical supply houses. It was sold dry, and bottled so it didn't turn brown. I found it to be quite clean.

If memory serves, Hoke suggests you dissolve the crystals in a small amount of water, then introduce a few drops of HCl. You'll see a distinct transformation of the resulting solution, as it turns a more vibrant pale green when enough HCl has been added. An added bonus, at least as far as I was concerned, was that the somewhat cloudy solution turned clear, a sure sign something was being dissolved by the addition of the HCl. I also used to filter the solution before adding it to my gold chloride, to ensure that I was not introducing any contaminants. It was my opinion that anything I could do to eliminate unwanted substances was worth the effort.

I'm not suggesting that using the crystals without dissolving in water doesn't work---but I can see a definite advantage in doing so.

Laminations are made from a product known as Armco iron. It is iron that has the carbon reduced to virtually zero, so that laminations do not retain magnetism. In its place, one can use scrap steel, which is nothing more than an alloy of carbon and iron, with the carbon in solution (unlike cast iron, where excess carbon precipitates upon cooling). If you must use steel, make your selection something like clean angle or channel iron, then filter after dissolution, to remove the carbon. Don't use mystery metal, as you risk including elements that may contaminate your gold.

Harold

 

[butcher]

Thank you Harold,
I should clarify I normally do dissolve the crystals when precipitating gold, I have also added the wet fresh crystals to a dilute denoxxed aqua regia they seemed to dissolve quickly in solution, basically I always use the crystals (wet), placing the crystal in the spot plate watching for a brown ring to form around the crystal when gold is in solution.

I never dry the crystals before use, as I figured it would lead to oxidation of the crystals, actually properly made ferrous sulfate are hard to dry out.

when looking at the formula for copperas we see water (hydration) is a part of the crystals makeup FeSO4·7H2O.

Once the copperas crystals oxidize they are no longer ferrous sulfate, but an oxidized compound of iron (sulfate) they will not work once oxidized to precipitate gold, they will also lose the bright green color turning brown or white, storing them in a sealed plastic HDPE bottle wet and slightly acidic helps to keep them fresh and from air and oxidation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron%28II%29_sulfate

 

[Geo]

ive used copperas until the batch i made was used up. i wanted to see the reaction first hand. i didnt dissolve the crystals and it seemed to work ok so i just assumed i had done everything correctly. thank you Harold for straightening that out.

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

I know this is a significantly old thread, but I like it.

So, bump!

 

[rewalston]

I was wondering if this transformer will work for making copperas? Of course I have to clean everything up on it, I just tore apart an old stereo system. Also what should it be filtered through. If I'm not mistaken even at 10% wouldn't the sulphuric acid ruin coffee filters?
Rusty

 

[Barren Realms 007]

I was wondering if this transformer will work for making copperas? Of course I have to clean everything up on it, I just tore apart an old stereo system. Also what should it be filtered through. If I'm not mistaken even at 10% wouldn't the sulphuric acid ruin coffee filters?
Rusty
IMG_20160718_182119[1].jpg

Yes you can use that one. Get everything cleaned off of it, grind the welds to separate the plates and torch it to remove the coating and you are ready to dissolve it.

And you will need to use fiberglass or other product that will not be dissolved by the sulfuric when you filter.

 

[rewalston]

Thanks Barren, that was kind of what I was thinking. I'll get this transformer cleaned up but it will probably be a while before I make up some copperas. But should be able to make quite a bit from this thing. Damn neared landed on my foot, that would have hurt, instead it landed on my tiled floor big gouge :shock: .

Rusty

 

[jason_recliner]

And you will need to use fiberglass or other product that will not be dissolved by the sulfuric when you filter.

If you have an excess of iron, so that the sulfuric is [mostly] consumed, this is not a problem with regular filter papers. But add a touch more sulfuric after filtering, for a slight excess is a good thing.
Just don't leave it depleting too long, or it will start to rust.

 

[rewalston]

Thanks Jason, I'll keep that in mind. I need to find a suitable glass container to store it in once I'm finished making it.
Rusty

 

[bcgold]

Likewise I use the laminates from transformers, incinerate to remove varnish, battery acid cut 50/50 with rain water.

The reaction is slightly exothermic, the only head used was solar.

Large bowel came off of a discarded front load washing machine. its probably made from borosilicate glass and will hold at least 10 liters.

 

[anachronism]

Buy Ferrous Sulphate and save yourself the work.

Yes I made my own just to see how easy it was and yes it's easy but see how cheap the pure product is, and it's not worth the hassle.