Making Your Own Coinage.

[FrugalRefiner]

Debbie, that is some beautiful work!

Dave

 

[Debbie K]

Thanks, Dave!

 

[kurtak]

Also including a picture of a carving/casting I made years ago and a few that are more typical of what I usually do. I'm primarily a gemstone carver; my metal work kinda sucks.

Hi Debbie

First I have to say ALL of your work is Absolutely AWESOME

As to my personal taste my 3 favorites starting with most favorite

1) Point of No Return
2) Winter's Frost
3) Poseidon

(thought you said your metal work kinda sucks)

Not that your beetles on leaves aren't Absolutely AWESOME to - I just am not really into bugs - but the work is AWESOME

THANKS for posting

Kurt

 

[Debbie K]

Kurt:

Thank you for your kind words. I'm okay at carving wax and casting, but my fabrication is always a little sloppy. I just can't seem to achieve that high level that jewelers do, my stuff is more "art", whatever that is. I got just enough training to realize all my deficiencies.

I was trying to make stamps of aquatic scenes that were about 1.5" across that would be enameled so I could make something that would be easy to duplicate (and maybe SELL as these one of a kind things are always high ticket items). Needless to say, per my post, that didn't work out so well.

I did a series of mermaids like the Poseidon piece, and more weird ones like Point of no Return. Used to have a website, but let it go as it got so expensive. But there are more on my Pinterest page; anything that starts with "My ..." is my work. Here's a link if you're interested: DLSK Designs, Deborah Kirkpatrick (dikatt56) - Profile | Pinterest

 

[popslab]

Well it was not just US gold coins that were confiscated by FDR with Executive order 6102 on April 5th 1933. Here is the list of exceptions to the confiscation that were allowed;

A) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.
B) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.
C) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign Government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.
D) Gold coin and bullion licensed for other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and bullion imported for reexport or held pending action on applications for export licenses.

There were additional executive orders and amendments that dealt with this that year and next that further defined the amount of gold one could posses in any form to the $100.00 rule under these exceptions. Amounts greater than that required applying for a special license and you had to show the need. It is worth noting that at the time of this order $100.00 was roughly 5 troy ounces of gold.

Unbeknownst to most is that FDR did the same thing with silver August 9th 1934 with Executive Order 6814 with the exception that individuals were allowed to keep silver coins. This was targeted at “hoarders” of silver as once gold was outlawed people went to silver to protect their wealth, but this caused shortages of the metal for coinage. There was a 500 troy ounce limit per individual.

As some background in 1933 FDR was launching his New Deal to help cope with the great depression. He had the problem as to how to pay for all the government “assistance” he planned. At this time in history gold and silver were still money, even the paper money in circulation could be taken in and exchanged for their equivalent in gold or silver coin. Eliminating the private ownership of gold allowed the government to print paper money without having to worry about runs on banks with people demanding their gold for their paper bills as they became concerned as to a banks solvency. These runs destroyed many banks as they operated on the fractional gold system never having all the gold for the bills that were in circulation.

It is also worth noting that on May 12th 1933 FDR was given the authority to revalue the dollar in gold by the Thomas amendment tucked and hidden in the Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1933. On January 31st 1934 with Proclamation 2072 FDR revalued gold by fixing the value of the dollar at 15 5/21 grains 9/10ths fine from the original 25 8/10 grains of 9/10ths fine gold. This revalued gold from $20.67 to $35.00 per troy ounce, a 40% increase in the value of the gold that he had just confiscated from US citizens (in other words he stole 40% of the peoples wealth). 2 billion dollars of this government windfall was put into a “stabilization fund” the balance went into the general fund of the treasury. That 2 billion by the way is equivalent in purchasing power to 33.48 billion ($33,480,000,000.00) according to the Federal Reserves own calculations today. That stabilization fund wording sure sounds familiar.

We are on a fully fiat system now so a revaluation of the dollar by confiscating gold then devaluing the dollar against it is no longer necessary. All they need do is declare the current money in circulation void and you will need to turn it in at whatever exchange rate they choose to give you in the new currency. This is what is so wrong with fiat money with no intrinsic value. The greatest threat of our government outlawing the ownership of gold again is if people lose faith in the dollar and turn to gold and silver. It would be simple to outlaw it once again eliminating them as competing currencies. I do not think this is highly likely though as few own precious metals as they are fully invested in the dollar unlike in the early 30's when money was gold and gold was money.

Thank you very much for that explanation.

 

[Assembler]

“The State of Oregon” had codified the following back in 1864 under the heading “Making or possessing mold, die, tool or implement for counterfeiting”:

“stamp, engrave, make, or mend, or have in his possession or control, any mold, pattern, die, puncheon, engine, press or other tool, implement or instrument adapted and designed for coining or making any counterfeit coin in the similitude of any gold, silver, or other coin current by law or usage in this state, with intent to use the same, or cause or permit the same to be used or employed in coining or making any such false and counterfeit coin………..” “shall be punished by imprisonment in the penitentiary not less then one nor more than ten years”.

 

[goldshark]

So if you are in possession of the dies, but stamping in 4-9 gold, it would be alright, because you are not counterfeiting. Since most US coinage is in the 90% finest range, by stamping same weight, but higher finenesss, gives more real value to the coin then the US mint. Would this still be considered counterfeiting?

 

[stella polaris]

So if you are in possession of the dies, but stamping in 4-9 gold, it would be alright, because you are not counterfeiting. Since most US coinage is in the 90% finest range, by stamping same weight, but higher finenesss, gives more real value to the coin then the US mint. Would this still be considered counterfeiting?

As i understand it you are not allowed to produce any " existing" coins. No matter what metal. They must be clearly marked copy in order to do so.

 

[popslab]

If you want to make a coin why not design your own? Don’t make it look like any official coin. Gold companies like Ampex do it.

 

[kurtak]

So if you are in possession of the dies, but stamping in 4-9 gold, it would be alright, because you are not counterfeiting.

NO - ONLY the government can "coin money" (or a "mint" certified by the government) --- U.S Constitution Article 1 Section 8

What is money ? - here in the U.S. it is the "Dollar" - or $ - or any fraction of (1 cent, 5 cent, 10 cent, quart dollar half dollar)

It is the "Dollar value" - stamped on a piece of metal that makes a coin a coin - which ONLY the government can do --- anyone else - stamping a dollar value on a piece of metal is in fact "counterfeiting money" - regardless the kind of metal the dollar value is stamped on

Counterfeiting - is the act of utter, declare, express, or denote a "dollar value" (stamp it on a piece of metal)

This is clearly defined law in - 18 U.S. Code § 486 (counterfeiting law)

The ONLY exception to that law is if along with the dollar value stamped on the metal - it is also clearly stamped indicating it's "Not Real Money" - or - "Copy"

On the other hand - you can stamp out a piece of metal that looks like - in everyway - just like a U.S. coin BUT has NO dollar value stamped on it - in which case it is not a coin - but a round (or bullion round)

Kurt

 

[Heretolearn]

I got into a bit of discussion with my wife the other day about what would happen this wonderful economy we are experiencing really does get a lot worse with hyperinflation. I was explaining to her that in the worse case scenario it would be feasible to start making your own gold and silver coins to buy your food, fuel and whatever you need since paper money would be nearly useless. She asked me what the Federal government would do about people using gold and silver to pay for items especially since they outlawed it once back in FDR's days. I told her that what they did back then was not outlaw the use of gold coins but the use of United States minted coins to pay for transactions or debts owed. If you produce your own silver or gold in some form and use it to barter for food with your neighbor then there is nothing the Federal government can do. The key word here is"barter." Am I right or wrong here somewhere :?: Regards, Chris.

My apologies for not being on here as frequent as I'd like. And honestly when it comes to the views you, and so many of the members here are knowledgeable about. I would prefer to listen and learn from your discussions as they have most certainly saved me my time and possibly my life along with those of who I love and respect. So I would preferably listen and learn than give my own opinion for now. With all respect,there is wisdom and safety in the multitude of council.

 

[Yggdrasil]

My apologies for not being on here as frequent as I'd like. And honestly when it comes to the views you, and so many of the members here are knowledgeable about. I would prefer to listen and learn from your discussions as they have most certainly saved me my time and possibly my life along with those of who I love and respect. So I would preferably listen and learn than give my own opinion for now. With all respect,there is wisdom and safety in the multitude of council.

Welcome to your first post

 

[Jado]

Why would you want to tie a monetary value to PM piece anyway? When the dollar goes, the valuation would become pointless and erroneous.

 

[cejohnsonsr1]

I might also point out that even though the US Mint puts a $ face value on the gold and silver eagles, it’s really only a marketing ploy. The $1 on a silver eagle, for example, doesn’t represent the actual value of the object and though I’d sell everything I own to buy at face value, no one is ever going to sell at face value. Including the US Mint. So, while these and others produced by sovereign mints can vaguely be thought of as coins, they’re not because they’re produced separately from the coinage act under the bullion program. For the US. Other countries call it by other names, but it boils down to the same thing.

 

[scrappyjoe]

I just finished refining and intend to do my own coins. I will use the Delf sand casting. I read above and I will put my face on the coins (just as the queen has her face on the official currency). That should remove any confusion between me and the queen. I just finished digitalising my design in 3 D and printed a plastic coin for the mold. I also wrote moneta internationales on it since gold is a currency. And to make things very clear I wrote : Familia Goldorack.

hello. did this project ever come to fruition ? how'd it go ? i have also been looking into something like this as xmas presents ... youtubing ... just not sure which way to go ... ordering custom dies or molds seems like cheating ...

 

[goldorack]

Hi no self sanding did not go well for me. I only got partial coins with poor definition. Not sure if it is my lack of experience. I will try other ways.

 

[billgold]

Have you tried pressing the rounds rather than stamping? I think Tractor Supply sells a 50 ton jack for under $200 Can.

Be sure to anneal your silver/gold before pressing. Start out with something much smaller than a 1 ounce round.

 

[jphayesjr]

I got into a bit of discussion with my wife the other day about what would happen this wonderful economy we are experiencing really does get a lot worse with hyperinflation. I was explaining to her that in the worse case scenario it would be feasible to start making your own gold and silver coins to buy your food, fuel and whatever you need since paper money would be nearly useless. She asked me what the Federal government would do about people using gold and silver to pay for items especially since they outlawed it once back in FDR's days. I told her that what they did back then was not outlaw the use of gold coins but the use of United States minted coins to pay for transactions or debts owed. If you produce your own silver or gold in some form and use it to barter for food with your neighbor then there is nothing the Federal government can do. The key word here is"barter." Am I right or wrong here somewhere :?: Regards, Chris.

If you read the old law, it authorized the US Federal Government to recall all gold coins in circulation, limited the amount and types of gold items individuals could possess. It put us on the silver standard. We continued to produce silver alloy coins until Nixon took us off the silver standard. The gold prohibition and price mandate was repealed under Reagan. We seen prices adjust to supply less than to demand since then

 

[rickbb]

Not trying to resurrect an old thread, but has anyone been successful with making a decent molded round? I've seen some people on Etsy selling custom made graphite molds and wondering if anyone has used one.

I have quite a bit of silver bars I've poured and was thinking of making some rounds for the grandkids and (maybe a gold one for me). lol

 

[4metals]

I never had any luck pouring a round into mold. What I did have luck with was pouring into a book mold to get a flat wide bar and rolling it to a nice flat smooth surface finish. Then I took a chassis punch and lined it up in a huge metalworking vice and put the flat plate between the 2 pieces of the punch. (I guess this would count as a poor mans punch press.) This takes some alignment because you will not be using the center bolt on the punch for obvious reasons. But the punch knocked out a decent round and the rolling mill flattened it out perfectly after it was punched out of the flattened bar.

Not exactly what I would consider a production process, but I did what you are looking to do which was produce some rounds for the grandkids.