Messed up Somewhere Along the Line.

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H

HTRN

Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2012
Messages
14
Location
Daytona Beach, Fl
I have tried searching, but haven't found anything like what I'm experiencing.
I started with 4.5 g 10K and 8.8g 14K gold. Added 14.7g coin silver for inquarting. (Only thing I had)

Used approx. 85ml nitric (67.2%) to 85ml water - let it do it's thing. Did 5 washes w dist. water

AR - 7ml nitric and 28ml Hydrochloric - let it do it's thing. Added 1-2 ml nitric to make sure no further action

Filtered into new beaker and the fluid was a little cloudy (white) let it settle to bottom and refiltered - still a little cloudy
Added SMBisulfite - gold precipitated. Washed as reccomended and dried.

Here is where I believe I messed up.

Crucible used for earlier inquarting seemed to need a little more seasoning. The company I bought it from said to use 50-50 mixture of Boric acid and Borax. I reseasoned it but it was a little heavy (thick) in there. I put my dried gold in and tried to melt. It wouldn't melt. 15 minutes using Mappro and nothing. Turned more solid but would not melt. Sort of mixed with the borax/boric acid and formed little chunks.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan

goldmess_8.jpg
 
HTRN said:
15 minutes using Mappro and nothing.
Click to expand...

I believe this is the part you messed up on. as etack said: more heat.
I read you're using a crucible.
You really need a insulating material (furnace) almost completely surrounding the crucible (the only holes are where the Mappro goes in and where exhaust comes out).
Mappro should melt gold in maybe 20 min in this situation. If you want faster melt times you have to use something hotter, something with an oxygen supply, like oxy/acetylene.

btw:
HTRN said:
Turned more solid but would not melt
Click to expand...
I've seen this when I melt silver. I believe it's called sintering. Basically, a little below the melting point the powdered metal will stick to each other, shrinking into something resembling a button. I would estimate that sintering occurs at about 85% of the time it takes to fully melt. But I believe you weren't able to achieve melting due to low insulation.
 
" was a little cloudy (white) let it settle to bottom and refiltered - still a little cloudy
Added SMBisulfite"

I know I had a dab of silver I was trying to melt and unlike other batches that had melted just fine, this batch simply would not melt. Nothing changed, I was using the same dish, torch and gas setup.

The only difference that I could see was that this dad of silver was derived from converted silver chloride, and it hadn't converted completely.

Look for a white cloud of smoke as you try to melt. You may just have a problem with chlorides in your melt.

I was working with silver, but I would assume chlorides in your gold will have the same effect when melting.

Ray
 
The ring and bracelet are melting easier because its an alloy. Purer gold would need higher or longer heat so to speak.

Andrew
 
a heavier piece of metal is easier to metal due to the lack of air insulating the material. a solid piece of metal will always melt before fines. have you ever tried to melt a lot of aluminum foil at one time? you would think the foil would melt in seconds because it is so thin, this is not the case. each grain of metal dust has to melt individually before it will conglomerate.
 
Thanks everyone. I read everything I could for weeks before doing this, (including Hoke) but thought I messed up bigtime. I'll find an oxy-acetylene (or oxy-propane) torch and try melting again.

I thought I was going to have to re-refine it to get something out I had left in there.

Thanks again,

Dan
 
you don't need to get an Oxi torch for such a small amount. I use this type only the ACE brand https://www.google.com/shopping/product/5174785929442102784?q=propane%20torch&hl=en&prmd=imvns&start=40&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=a7a8292e1e748a01&bpcl=35466521&biw=1600&bih=785&tch=1&ech=1&psi=g9aGUOrkCIbu0gHto4GgCw.1351014112668.5&sa=X&ei=4NaGUJWXF7Sy0AHniYEY&ved=0CHQQ8wIwAzgo on som light weight bricks.
I melted 10Toz of Ag with it in the right insulation. Insulation is the key.



Eric
 
insulation solves lots of problems :)
I use the same torch as etack for "small" melts, with a mini firebrick furnace for insulation. Mappro should be a bit quicker than straight propane.

24K gold melts at 1064C
18K gold melts at ~963C
10K gold melts at ~899C
14K gold melts at ~874C
So, yes, an alloy ring would melt sooner than refined powder
 
etack said:
you don't need to get an Oxi torch for such a small amount. I use this type only the ACE brand https://www.google.com/shopping/product/5174785929442102784?q=propane%20torch&hl=en&prmd=imvns&start=40&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=a7a8292e1e748a01&bpcl=35466521&biw=1600&bih=785&tch=1&ech=1&psi=g9aGUOrkCIbu0gHto4GgCw.1351014112668.5&sa=X&ei=4NaGUJWXF7Sy0AHniYEY&ved=0CHQQ8wIwAzgo on som light weight bricks.
I melted 10Toz of Ag with it in the right insulation. Insulation is the key.



Eric
Click to expand...

I have the same only in aluminum body. I found a new Victor Oxy-Acetylene torch kit locally for $219.00. (Haven't bought it yet) I'm planning on using propane/oxygen and a thicker melting dish.

Dan
 
There is a guy selling several Bernzomatic TS8000 torches on an auction site for $29.95. I bought this torch from him for melting. It works great, although I need to build a small furnace. I have melted some silver on a a flat firebrick in a pinch with this torch. Let me know if you want the seller's link.
 
I think maybe all you guys are to smart
You all have been doing it to long for your
mistakes, if any, are on a much bigger scale

Has not anyone ever had to much borax in the dish
It would not melt even with my oxygen/acetylene setup. Until
I dumped out some flux

The poster did say "it looked pretty thick "
hope this helps Steyr223 rob
 

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