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butcher said:
or through hyperinflation as or our government's paper money press work overtime to lead us into hyperinflation,

Hyperinflation - this is already upon us - & it is JUST GETTING STARTED

I already posted about the price of building materials going up by A LOT

at least where I live my weekly groceries bill in the last year has gone up from an average of $60 per week to $100 per week (it would be even HIGHER if my freezer wasn't filled with elk meat & pork & beef I butcher my self)

My favorite hamburger at my favorite bar (a bacon cheese burger with grilled onions mushroom & jalapeno's) has gone from $7.50 to $11.50

Filling my car up with gas is costing more

My electric bill has gone up

They just raised the "minimum" on my water/sewer bill

In fact - it seems like every time I pay for something my eyes go - :shock: - because it's costing more then the last time I bought the same item

And it's just getting started :!:

The question is - how does &/or is all of this going to effect gold/silver (&/or other metals)

IMO - if you don't hang on to your gold & silver --- you better hang on to your shirt - because you are likely to lose it :twisted:

Kurt
 
I feel you Kurt, everything going up, while salaries tend to stagnate.

I don't have an answer to your question, just more questions...

I am a Canadian, so we tend to have a slightly a better safety net compared to the US.
I only follow US politics since here in Canada it is only small time fraud.
We are not supposed to talk politics here, but the questions remains while basic commodities go up in price & value while income & net valuable assets tend to be leaner for probably 60%+ americans...

- Why havent we seen many stimulus cheques to the people so they can buy potatoes, pay utility bills and rent??? $2000 per month per individual 15 years old + in Canada for the past 13 months.

- Why have we not seen the Bernie reconciliations $15/hour minimum wage passed already ???

-Why no universal healthcare ?

There is a limit to impunity and pure theft. What do you guys think is needed to get a bit more fairness in the US? When are we going to see an evolution in the positive direction? I keep saying "we" because unless there's is change in the US there is little hope for "we" the rest of the world. We can't count on China to do the right thing. Is there hope?
 
There is always hope, where there is a will there is a way, we can do anything (Our makers willing, and within the laws of nature) we can do anything we put our minds to, and are willing to suffer through, no matter how much work or how difficult or hard it gets.
Of course we have to stand up and do it, talk or crying about it will not change anything.

We may need to work hard to educate ourselves, be willing to see things differently even if it pains us to do so, and struggle to gain back what we have lost through our own foolishness, and neglect.

Learn how to stand on our own two feet and take control of our own affairs instead of giving other the power over our affairs, or over us,stand up and stop giving handouts that only disable, learn to control our own greed that puts us into these situations, see where we are to blame, wake up from our sleep and hypnotic state, basically the problem is not external to us it is us, and we will not make it better until we see that, and take action to change ourselves or our views...

Basically we have to wake up, stop blaming all of this on others, and take responsibility of this and of ourselves, suffer the consequences, and learn the lessons and learn to do what is right.

It is a shame we cannot really communicate with each other today, respect each other enough to work out a problem, that we have all caused between ourselves, leaving the cave man to believe he has no way out but to fight his way out of the hole he put himself into by his own neglect ignorance and blindness.

I have no doubt we will see much worse, and we will see much better, all of this is nothing new or to be feared as long as we can look within ourselves, change ourselves and have the courage to stand up for what is right, we have control of ourselves, following not what we may have been falsely led to believe, or to follow in a hypnotic stupor, involving ourselves in the loosing venture of the games of the world.

Our power is from within, if we have that power than nothing external can have control over us.
If we do not look within, and strengthen and refine ourselves, then those external to us are given power over us by our own neglect.

I would rather go hungry and pay for my own mistakes, than count on a handout that would take food from my child, and keep us both hungry.

Sounds good print more money (deflate your value) to give to people to plant potatoes, problem is most of those have no idea how to grow there own potatoes, so we better print more money and devalue our selves even more to make sure they have some more tater seed for next year after these they planted rot in the field.

Why not $1000 minimum wage? 15.00 that is peanuts.That $1,000 dollar an hour to start learning if we can do or even handle our first job would do us all better, heck if we can legislative the market, and print money and have free tater seed for everybody what do we have to be concerned about?
If we are going to help drive up the price of wages unnaturally against the market, putting our nations small businesses in real jeopardy of failure in a struggling market, why do we not just let the government run the whole business and take let them over your mother kitchen where she sell her goods to put food on your table? We know how well they run everything .
why should government give us away potato seed? Why not steak and caviar? if we are going to kill ourselves in debt lets just do it quickly and get it over.

Sure, I am just Dying to go to a government run hospital, and trust a government run healthcare system with my health and care in my old age, you know how much trust we can put in the leaders to do the right thing, and how well we can trust those we put into power over us to run it efficiently as they run all their businesses, and along with them only having our best interest and health in their minds.
No thanks I do not need any governments medicine (I just cannot swallow it),

Why not blindly give them power to stimulate us into more poverty and debt and further stimulate the government to more gain more power stimulate the printing presses that will take our gold and our freedoms.
I just do not trust.

I am American
Independent I can feed himself, or my family, I never have been, and never will be dependent on a government to feed me.
I do not depend on the king or a government (or some dictator we put in power) to care for my health or the strength of my muscle or bones, nor do I trust them to run a business that determines my health or my wealth or rely on them totally for my security and well being, as an American I take responsibility for myself.

Nor will I give up my God given rights to protect myself and my family.
I will hold any gold I mine and manage it myself, I will determine what I do with my saving or excess labor, I do not trust the government or a banker to manage it for me, using it how they wish.
We can help our own neighbors, we do not need the king to collect his taxes from his peasants to help to keep the poor in control and poverty...

Well I just need to look within myself , that is where I will survive anything external to me, I can take care of myself.
Each one of us have a different view, as we all see through different individual pairs of eyes, and through different filters of our experiences and our own blindness's, or rose colored shades.
I am sure we would all elect different kings, presidents, dictators, or government leaders...
And we would all have a different opinion of not only who should rule the tribe or govern, I am sure we would also fight, of how to decide to divide up the only rabbit and buck deer among us. or who will have to work the hide to tan it and who would get it on the coming cold nights...

I understand we have different eyes and views, different minds with different ideas or strategies to survive.

I also see how even discussing the price of metals in today's environment can easily become political, and divide us, and I have to be careful of not only of getting my self banned from the forum, but also to stay out of the getting into any type of political conversation.

I do not see this as a political problem, and if others here feel I am crossing the line into that field please bring it to my attention, you can see me better than I can see myself.

I just believe we can help each other to see ourselves and our problems, and possible come to some good solutions, and to help educate ourselves, and to help each other, so we can all enjoy our freedom and our work, or saving of that work, regardless of the political fire storms around us, that we can profit from our metals, and do good with them to make medicines, to make battery's, vehicles, electric work saving machines, to make communication between us all better and just make the world around us better in general.

Regardless of the price of labor, the dollar, or the metals. or for that matter any government or bank, or those playing for dictatorship and control, we ultimately have control over only one thing ourselves.
It has been historically said that those who control the worlds metals and powder will have control over the world, well i say that would put us of refiners of metals in a better position, to have more control over our own lives if we can educate ourselves and become more aware.
 
It's hard for me to disagree whit anything you are posting Butcher, I learn a lot from it and it lowers my overall stress & anxiety towards the universe.
No doubt there's a wide scope of eyes and views.. We are humans afterall. And this is where mine differs.

We are where we are today, as a specie able to launch satelittes into space, because we found out and decided that things tend to go better for everyone if we stick together. If someone from the tribe gets sick or injured while hunting, we care for him, because we need him to stay & contribute to the tribe in the long run. Also because, someday, it might be I, that is sick, and I would love for my crew to help me get trough it. We share in a common pot everything we gathered from the bushes and the threes for the meals. We hunt together because it's easier to kill a mamoth in a pack. We built cities and created centers of knowledge and wisdom because it's for the benefit of all.

This goes way behond any politics. Today we do things in a slighlty different way by contributing fiat to a pot for the benefit of the larger tribe. The idea remains the same, only our politicians are failing us spending that hard earned paper. We trust them with our roads and military and we should not trust them with our healthcare?

I don't believe in free stuff or handouts, it does not work in the long run, just another Rome with bread & circus. In do believe in a collective safety net for those in need, to give them a chance when help is needed. The basics, food, shelter, health, education, safety...
If those basic needs are convered, the society has way better chances of flourishing.

That brings us to the idea of equal chance of opportunity within the tribe. Once the collective has spent some ressources to give you a chance, it's up to you to make the best of it.

There is, and there always will be leaches taking advantage from the system. Politicians, banksters, regular folks too... That's why, has a group, we built a civil & criminal justice system for the benefit of all.

Now, our laws are made by the legislative branch that, we, the tribe, the constituants, the electorate voted for. We are the sole responsible for the laws and rules we don't like or don't agree with. There is no excuses in these modern times. We have the politicians we deserve.

And this is where, again, we need to educate ourselfs and do it if we are not satisfied with our past, present and the future to come for us, for our kids, for our tribe.
 
Sadly - we have become - or at least becoming more & more a society of entitlement

Concerning politics - we need to be careful that we don't cross the line on political views in general (what I/we think about abortion, sexual orientation, race issues etc. etc.)

Economics including the influence politics has on economics in one way or another has an effect on the value of our gold & silver

if we can not discuss that (for fear of crossing the line of political discussion) then we can not make wise decisions as to when to buy/sell or hold or metal

not discussing the effect politics may or not have on our metal(s) value would indeed be foolish

IMO

Kurt
 
Alexxx,
I agree with you to an extent, but also see it differently, I believe if we could spend some time together we may be able to see things more from the others view point, because we can discuss this rationally, trouble is we are on the gold forum, and typing is a hard way to communicate or get ideas across.

if your security is what puts you in danger, it is not good.
If your help only hinders it may not be as helpful as you believe.
If you enable a nation by feeding it, how can you expect it to support itself tomorrow.
.

It was not as pretty a picture as you may have learned or have been led to believe from Hollywood or some college professor who has a bias slant on history or does not know nothing about it,except that which has been romanticized by historical stories.

Our country sent a man to the moon and fed our people, in our country, in an attempt to pay for our recent social programs by printing more money we put our country in debt costing us more than all of the previous wars and all of our space programs, promising any and all of the food we grow tomorrow to those who we are borrowing from, in order for us to pay for a nation who is not working to pull their own weight, we will not survive as a tribe doing this. Today we cannot afford a space program, keep this up and tomorrow we will not be able feed our poor or feed ourselves, but then be dependent on others or be sold as slaves.


The people of the tribe did help each other to survive, but no one was on tribal welfare. everyone worked, fought, or died for the tribe.
Many times were sacrifices for the good of the tribe, many times there were hard self sacrifices made by individuals where elderly who could no longer pull their weight , in this case they would stay behind in winter sitting up camp while generations of their children left the, the tribe left them to fend for themselves or starve, giving their life for their children and others of the tribe so they did bot burden the tribe, or a wounded warrior who sacrificed himself for the good of others knowing if others tried to help him it would only endanger the tribe more and make the survival of all in more danger, or the mother smothering her child to keep him quiet and the tribe safe.

Feeding the people of our tribe who unable to work or those who of our tribe who have gotten fat and lazy, feeding and sheltering those who do not help, but are only a burden with their own laziness, those who find it easier to just sit and wait in camp warm by the fire on a freezing day, while others go out to work to feed them, or should we feed them with food that we do not have or have not hunted, so we have to borrow from another tribe,which also may be our enemy, giving them our surplus goods or our the very tools we will need to survive as a tribe in the future which also may be our enemy, a practice that not only weakens us a a tribe, but puts our tribe in the line of being slaves of the other tribes.

Well if we put it up for vote I guess all of the fat and lazy of our tribe will vote for the rest of the tribe to work and feed them while they sit by the fire.

I am just glad my tribe (family) will not burden themselves into poverty to feed me, or care for me at there own demise, when I can no longer feed myself or support them, sure they will care where they can, and do what they can (and would sacrifice themselves if I let them, or their emotions overruled their common sense), I would not wish to starve my family, in saving myself, or making my life more comfortable while draining my family's ability to survive and grow in future generations.

These are complicated issues not easily discussed, not easily solved.
I have probably carried this topic further than I should have, and although it does have a big effect on the metal price,the forum is not a place for us to try and solve social problems or different ideas of solving those problems (which always seems to go into a political field or of political views taught by others.

We all have to open our minds question what we have been lead to believe, educate ourselves, and work together to help us all survive, that include sacrifice of ourselves where needed.

We do not gain anything without some kind of sacrifice. We do not live in heaven or a fantasy world yet, but if we can make the needed sacrifices maybe we can.


If it was only life was that simple, but heck what fun would that be, we would all be bored to death.


I guess my point is we need to be careful of how we take care of our sick, elderly, or for those with a disability, and our children born, and our unborn children in our nations wife's womb's, we can do it as a people if we wished, we have the ability (if not hindered by our government) we have the ability to feed everyone today and still grow enough for tomorrow, we have enough land and lumber to build everyone a house and enough to build them a barn (if not hindered by the government), we can educate people to learn to feed themselves, to help families care for the elderly sick or disabled among them, we can have the needed medicine, the hospitals...

I believe we as people, can take care of ourselves and do it well, take care of our poor or sick, better than a government, and if the government got out of the way we could be closer to living in a better society where our tribes would survive better, than letting the king take control and govern us all to the poor house.
 
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