Modtheworld44's Reverse AR Variation

[modtheworld44]

I have chosen to share a first look at my process.I have been using this and testing it for the past 6-8 months now.Just recently I have passed the process on to 3 of our other forum members also,sorta as a beta testing and to gain better feed back.Two of those members have already given me good feed back so far and waiting to hear from the third.This process was thought of based on Time,chemical usage and cost,types of material that can be used,after wastes,and lot load sizes.

I have run 6+pounds of material start to final melt in under 24hours at a minute for minute basis.That includes a full dissolution of all the metals.This process presents allot of learning curves that I had to come to a understanding with,and this is why I'm not quite ready to release it for public use just yet.When I feel that we have done enough beta testing,I will and am going to give it to the forum.

I want to ask that this thread Not be trashed by our trolls.I know that allot of people disagree with my views and insight on refining,but that's just it "There my views and insights".

All the information used to build and put this process together was found here on this great forum!!!! I just had to learn how to piece it together.Thanks in advance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrkgnYoCSxQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UApF-C9Uqbs



modtheworld44

 

[kurtak]

Jerry

Thanks for sending me those videos by PM this morning - after our talk on the phone the other day the videos helped clarify what you were saying

Can't wait to give it a go - need to get a few things together so it might be a week or so (+/-)

Need to come up with another name though as its not really a "variation" of reverse AR

Kurt

 

[modtheworld44]

Jerry

Thanks for sending me those videos by PM this morning - after our talk on the phone the other day the videos helped clarify what you were saying

Can't wait to give it a go - need to get a few things together so it might be a week or so (+/-)

Need to come up with another name though as its not really a "variation" of reverse AR

Kurt

kurtak

How about the TB(The Beast)LOL :mrgreen:



modtheworld44

 

[g_axelsson]

Maybe I'm a troll, but I'm not seeing any sharing with the forum.

A bowl with a bubbling reaction in a dark liquid. Talking about "chemicals" in shot glasses, powder and some catalyst.
What is the gain of using "reverse AR" and still dissolving all the material? As I see it, the advantage of reverse AR is that you don't have to dissolve all materials.
There is some truth in Kurt's words, maybe your variant of reverse AR is that it isn't reverse AR at all. Just hitting the scrap with the chemical equality of a 10 pound sledge hammer.

Not once mention in writing or in the video what chemicals you use.

I would call this useless as it is for the forum at large. Nothing to see here folks, move on!

Göran

 

[Geo]

Jerry, stay safe.

 

[etack]

Maybe I'm a troll, but I'm not seeing any sharing with the forum.

A bowl with a bubbling reaction in a dark liquid. Talking about "chemicals" in shot glasses, powder and some catalyst.
What is the gain of using "reverse AR" and still dissolving all the material? As I see it, the advantage of reverse AR is that you don't have to dissolve all materials.
There is some truth in Kurt's words, maybe your variant of reverse AR is that it isn't reverse AR at all. Just hitting the scrap with the chemical equality of a 10 pound sledge hammer.

Not once mention in writing or in the video what chemicals you use.

I would call this useless as it is for the forum at large. Nothing to see here folks, move on!

Göran

Goran I had the same thing typed up but thought a moderates should say it. So thank you for saying it this is just forum clutter.

We should take guesses on the chemistry though for fun.

Sulfuric acid shot glass
Sodium nitrate powder
H2O2 catalyst

 

[modtheworld44]

Maybe I'm a troll, but I'm not seeing any sharing with the forum.

A bowl with a bubbling reaction in a dark liquid. Talking about "chemicals" in shot glasses, powder and some catalyst.
What is the gain of using "reverse AR" and still dissolving all the material? As I see it, the advantage of reverse AR is that you don't have to dissolve all materials.
There is some truth in Kurt's words, maybe your variant of reverse AR is that it isn't reverse AR at all. Just hitting the scrap with the chemical equality of a 10 pound sledge hammer.

Not once mention in writing or in the video what chemicals you use.

I would call this useless as it is for the forum at large. Nothing to see here folks, move on!

Göran

g_axelsson

Thanks for the idea we can call it "Sledge Hammer".I really like the sound of that.Well back to the Sledge Hammer to get my gold.Thanks in advance.

Jerry, stay safe.

I always refine as safely as you do,but thanks for the reminder.



modtheworld44

 

[JHS]

I am one of the three.I spent 2.5 hours on skype with Mod talking and watching this process.The next day I used the process.
It worked as he described it.I ran ten pounds of pins and got the same yield as I get from my ap tank.The difference is 2.5 hours for this process,3 to 4 weeks for ap.
Mod , all I did was wash the gold powder in hot HCL and water a few times,and melted it.When I tested the gold it passed a 22k test.Thought I would let you know.
In mod's defense.,he did say he would tell the forum when he was ready.
It is not a sulfuric solution.It does not dissolve the gold.you should just wait on mod to post it,and not just guess.
john

P.S.I think you should call it,M44

 

[modtheworld44]

Maybe I'm a troll, but I'm not seeing any sharing with the forum.

A bowl with a bubbling reaction in a dark liquid. Talking about "chemicals" in shot glasses, powder and some catalyst.
What is the gain of using "reverse AR" and still dissolving all the material? As I see it, the advantage of reverse AR is that you don't have to dissolve all materials.
There is some truth in Kurt's words, maybe your variant of reverse AR is that it isn't reverse AR at all. Just hitting the scrap with the chemical equality of a 10 pound sledge hammer.

Not once mention in writing or in the video what chemicals you use.

I would call this useless as it is for the forum at large. Nothing to see here folks, move on!

Göran

Goran I had the same thing typed up but thought a moderates should say it. So thank you for saying it this is just forum clutter.

We should take guesses on the chemistry though for fun.

Sulfuric acid shot glass
Sodium nitrate powder
H2O2 catalyst

etack

Sorry not quite,but that is the best way to make nitric though in my opinion.You should try it,you might like the nitric thats produced from it.Thanks for the guess but this wasn't intended as a guessing game thread.Guess you'll just have to wait for the last of the beta testing to get done to know the chemicals used.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

 

[JHS]

Doesn't this make nitric?

 

[g_axelsson]

Goran I had the same thing typed up but thought a moderates should say it. So thank you for saying it this is just forum clutter.

We should take guesses on the chemistry though for fun.

Sulfuric acid shot glass
Sodium nitrate powder
H2O2 catalyst

That was wholly my own opinion as I haven't spoken with any of the other moderators of it. The reason I spoke up is that I feel an obligation to the forum to point out anything of dubious value, mostly for the newbies that doesn't know what's good or bad.
We always claims that any bad information is quickly caught and exposed here, so let's keep it that way.

I think you might have the chemistry down correct. There's no BFRC, gold is preserved so there can't be nitrate and chloride ions present at the same time.

I just wonder what could be called a catalyst, as a catalyst is a substance that participates in the reaction but comes out in the end in the same way it started.

I have used the expression chemical sledgehammer previously, it describes when someone dissolves everything into a mess and then tries to get it out. It might work but there's no finesse in it.
It's like having a box of biscuits and using a sledgehammer to open it, you can scrape up the crumbs with some extra debris from the ground afterwards and the box is not usable any longer. With the right tool you can pry the box up and get the cookies a lot cleaner and the box can be reused.
I will continue to use the expression for that kind of situations.

Göran

 

[kurtak]

Guys - just hang on for a bit

Jerry has every intent to share the process - here is the thing --- Jerry has had some trouble in the past with being considered "off his rocker" &/or "outlandish" - soooo ----

Until he has had it tested by some other members (he has decided on 3) that can confirm that it in fact works as he says it does he doesn't want to post the details & have it thrown back in his face that he is off his rocker &/or outlandish --- he wants to "first" have it "confirmed" by all three of the members he has chose to share it with

I am that third member & I have just in the last few days talked with Jerry to get & understand the working parameters of the method - I now have to get a few things together to give it a go - that may take a little while but I will get it done - for example I checked around a couple places for the dry chem but could not find it - so I made a phone call & found it but have to buy a 50 lb bag - so I am going to check a couple more places before putting out the money for a 50 lb bag when I don't need that much --- plus I have a few other things I have to take care of before I dive into this --- so give me a week to 9 - 10 days to get what I need to do done to give it my try

If it works as claimed (& I believe it will) it will be worth the wait --- & from what I can see there are no "extreme" dangers to this process to throw up red flags

in other words Jerry is just waiting on me to run it - so I can confirm it - when he does post the details

So consider it a "preview" of something good to come as I feel fairly confident that I will be able to confirm the process once I run it

And I will say it again --- who would of thought that you could strip silver plate in a cell with nothing but water --- until Jerry posted it here on the forum

Edit to add; - if it doesn't met the claim I will post that as well

Kurt

 

[etack]

Maybe I'm a troll, but I'm not seeing any sharing with the forum.

A bowl with a bubbling reaction in a dark liquid. Talking about "chemicals" in shot glasses, powder and some catalyst.
What is the gain of using "reverse AR" and still dissolving all the material? As I see it, the advantage of reverse AR is that you don't have to dissolve all materials.
There is some truth in Kurt's words, maybe your variant of reverse AR is that it isn't reverse AR at all. Just hitting the scrap with the chemical equality of a 10 pound sledge hammer.

Not once mention in writing or in the video what chemicals you use.

I would call this useless as it is for the forum at large. Nothing to see here folks, move on!

Göran

Goran I had the same thing typed up but thought a moderates should say it. So thank you for saying it this is just forum clutter.

We should take guesses on the chemistry though for fun.

Sulfuric acid shot glass
Sodium nitrate powder
H2O2 catalyst

etack

Sorry not quite,but that is the best way to make nitric though in my opinion.You should try it,you might like the nitric thats produced from it.Thanks for the guess but this wasn't intended as a guessing game thread.Guess you'll just have to wait for the last of the beta testing to get done to know the chemicals used.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

If you didn't want a guessing game than you shouldn't post cryptic threads that only two other members are clear on.

I don't care what your NEW way is, 'cause its not new its just new to you. Like the "H2O cell" people have been making colloidal silver that way forever. In your H2O cell videos you dont even show the silver plate removed all the way.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+make+colloidal+silver&oq=how+to+make+collo&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.10918j0j9&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

If you want to strip silver plate read this.
This is the patent for it no guessing just facts.

http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/0f32bf8f1b927e10c230/EP1487646B1.pdf
http://www.google.com/patents/US6783690

Just be safe and have a great day................

Eric

 

[modtheworld44]

Maybe I'm a troll, but I'm not seeing any sharing with the forum.

A bowl with a bubbling reaction in a dark liquid. Talking about "chemicals" in shot glasses, powder and some catalyst.
What is the gain of using "reverse AR" and still dissolving all the material? As I see it, the advantage of reverse AR is that you don't have to dissolve all materials.
There is some truth in Kurt's words, maybe your variant of reverse AR is that it isn't reverse AR at all. Just hitting the scrap with the chemical equality of a 10 pound sledge hammer.

Not once mention in writing or in the video what chemicals you use.

I would call this useless as it is for the forum at large. Nothing to see here folks, move on!

Göran

Goran I had the same thing typed up but thought a moderates should say it. So thank you for saying it this is just forum clutter.

We should take guesses on the chemistry though for fun.

Sulfuric acid shot glass
Sodium nitrate powder
H2O2 catalyst

etack

Sorry not quite,but that is the best way to make nitric though in my opinion.You should try it,you might like the nitric thats produced from it.Thanks for the guess but this wasn't intended as a guessing game thread.Guess you'll just have to wait for the last of the beta testing to get done to know the chemicals used.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

If you didn't want a guessing game than you shouldn't post cryptic threads that only two other members are clear on.

I don't care what your NEW way is, 'cause its not new its just new to you. Like the "H2O cell" people have been making colloidal silver that way forever. In your H2O cell videos you dont even show the silver plate removed all the way.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+make+colloidal+silver&oq=how+to+make+collo&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.10918j0j9&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

If you want to strip silver plate read this.
This is the patent for it no guessing just facts.

http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/0f32bf8f1b927e10c230/EP1487646B1.pdf
http://www.google.com/patents/US6783690

Just be safe and have a great day................

Eric

etack

I don't know if you thought I would actually look and read all those link or not,but if not you were wrong.If your going to try and debate against something you should know what your debating about and know what your talking about.This is strictly my opinion and nothing more.It is obvious that you haven't even tried the H2O cell and the links are about stripping silver from circuit boards and for making colloidal silver,which is not what my H2O cell is used for at all so when you can get your facts straight we can continue this debate in a PM.Thanks for bringing the dummy out of me.



modtheworld44

 

[Anonymous]

Guys

If it's one thing that we can learn from history it's that innovators are consistently pilloried and reviled and mocked. You can find a list as long as your arm of famous inventors who went through this, and of course equally a list as long as your arm of inventors and innovators who were never successful.

Rather than take the approach of writing off the things that Mod is saying "out of hand" I prefer to take the higher ground until it is proven one way or another.

Let's see the test data first, at which point we'll see where it stands and who had the right viewpoint.

Jon

 

[patnor1011]

I will wait to see about all of this, my pile of pins is starting to irritate my wife and I will have to do something with them. My shed is starting to resemble hoarder den and it is becoming harder and harder to find things buried under other things. 8)

 

[solar_plasma]

yo-ho-ho... finally a topic in my little battle ground again H2O cell....

H2O cell or pure distilled water cell, as I would call it, will produce colloidal silver.

The cell, we call the tap water cell will not produce colloidal silver, and if so only marginal. Tap water mostly contains as a main contaminant Na+ and Cl-. The Na+ is commonly known attracted by the cathode, where it gains an electron. It would form Na metal, but this reacts immediately with H2O, forming NaOH, which provides an alkaline electrolyte (with my tap water it goes to pH 9-10). The Cl- is attracted by the anode silver, which corrodes and gives clouds of AgCl off to the liquid, which finally end up in the other pricipitates and cell slimes. Because of the high overvoltage anodizing occurs. The anode is directly attacked by the produced oxygen and forms brown-black-grey insoluble slimes, while the surface corrodes away. As soon as large areals of basemetal are exposed, the stripping cell gets less and less effective, because we have an increasing anodic protection of the silver by the basemetals, though by far not as much as I have seen it in a CuSO4 cell, where massive material like the inside of a knife handle can be eaten away and silver foils are left.

The silver is oxidized to Ag2O (it is a little more complex system of silver chalcogens, but in the end, there is mainly Ag2O). Ofcourse it is not pure, because the exposed basemetals also form oxides. Most H2 is gassing off. Directly at the cathode some nascending H reacts with oxides around, but I doubt this plays a major role.

This is no guessing and it is not new. I posted a 70 year old scientific document about the processes. But the application and the systematic and targeted usage is new, as far as I know. Nothing else did Mod say.

edit: I deleted my comment about incomplete information, because I just saw, this has been explained already.

Btw. I love this Tennessee way of speeking, - slow enough to understand every single word, a clear pronunciation and a sympathic Forrest-Gump-like intonation of some syllables.

 

[kurtak]

If you didn't want a guessing game than you shouldn't post cryptic threads that only two other members are clear on.

Nothing "cryptic" about it

Jerry posted a link to his video showing the method in action (which he made to show me to give me a better understanding of what we talked about on the phone)

He then states that he "is going" to be sharing it with the forum - but - that he first wants to wait till it has been fully tested by those of us he has shared it with privately

Jerry has good reason for doing it this way --- for one thing Jerry does not present/explain him self well (something he & I have also talked about) for one thing he tends to talk in riddles which frustrates &/or confuses people - its not that Jerry intends to present him self this way - rather it is the way he works things out &/or solves problems in his own mind --- so by nature/personality that is how he ends up presenting it

Where this is a problem for some people - it is not a problem for me --- therefore Jerry has decided he is going to share his process with the forum - & all he is saying is "please wait for Kurt to run it" so he can help explain it when I post the details --- meaning Jerry feels I do a better job of explaining details

This is Jerry's process - he came up with it (not me) therefore I will let Jerry be the one to present it (which he will do once I have an actual "working" experience with it) --- because then I can "help" with explaining it &/or answering questions

In other words - very much the same way that Jerry "presented" the H2O silver plate stripping cell - & then Bjorn picked it up - ran with it & made it all come together in a thread that turned into a 7 page discussion

Like the "H2O cell" people have been making colloidal silver that way forever

Correct Eric --- but - it was Jerry - that presented it as a way of stripping silver plating that turned into a 7 page discussion --- the "credit" for "presenting" it as a method to strip silver plating --- goes to Jerry - no one else thought of it

I don't care what your NEW way is, 'cause its not new its just new to you.

That may or may not be true Eric - in other words Eric - whether Jerry found it through research out side the forum - or whether it is something he "put together" on his own does not matter - because it will be new - to this forum ----- just like AP/CuCl2 was not a "new" process in & of its self - but it was certainly "new" as a process for recovering foils from pins & finger --- AFTER Steve (I believe it was) presented it as such here to the forum

So Eric - I suggest that if you have a such problem (personal) &/or such a problem with the way Jerry is going about presenting his method that you "choose" to shot the messenger before he has delivered the message - that you can then also choose to completely ignore the message by never clicking on this thread & following it as it develops

I have written this post as I have because I have little or no question after extended phone discussion with Jerry that this is a process that will help members of this forum - its just a matter of me now "working" it to get the full comprehension so that I can help with the presentation &/or Q&A part of discussion

Kurt

 

[solar_plasma]

- it was Jerry - that presented it as a way of stripping silver plating that turned into a 7 page discussion --- the "credit" for "presenting" it as a method to strip silver plating --- goes to Jerry - no one else thought of it

Correct. And even it shares some disadvantages with other silver stripping cells, it is the best choice, since it provides the advantage of not producing any waste, being cheap (no costs) and being very safe compared to any other methods that come to mind.

If this thread turns out to be as giving as the H2O thread, we have to admit, Jerry to have a flair for finding promising applications.

 

[kurtak]

If this thread turns out to be as giving as the H2O thread,

I am 95 to 99% confident that it will - the process is really already proven - Jerry is just waiting on me as the third "outside" test of it (for confirmation) so I am the bottle neck in holding up the full details - I just got the full details a couple days ago though (we discussed it before - but details were just laid out the other day) - so give me a bit of time to get it together & run it

we have to admit, Jerry to have a flair for finding promising applications.

:lol: He actually has a "theory" on another one - we talked about - he ran one test - we talked about again - I pointed out a flaw in the test & what to do to confirm it is actually working as expected - soooo - we will see - it has "potential" but for sure needs more testing :mrgreen:

This one may have some safety issues that may need to be addressed - if it in fact works

Kurt