Modtheworld44's Reverse AR Variation

[kazamir]

This is exciting, more exciting than the eclipse, I have 50 lbs. of pins waiting for the Sledge.

 

[g_axelsson]

Guys

If it's one thing that we can learn from history it's that innovators are consistently pilloried and reviled and mocked. You can find a list as long as your arm of famous inventors who went through this, and of course equally a list as long as your arm of inventors and innovators who were never successful.

Rather than take the approach of writing off the things that Mod is saying "out of hand" I prefer to take the higher ground until it is proven one way or another.

Let's see the test data first, at which point we'll see where it stands and who had the right viewpoint.

Jon

Out of all the scientists and innovators that work hard on extending our knowledge very few are consistently pilloried and reviled and mocked. Out of the 835 Nobel prize winners since 1901, how many have been? Sure, there have been a few and nothing else is expected, in the few cases when there is a paradigm shift in science there is a hard battle of convincing other scientists of the validity of the new model. But never is the argument used that I'm mocked therefore I'm right.
There is so many more cases of scientists and innovators being mocked and then they turned out to be wrong in the end. How many people have invented perpetual motion machines, been mocked and still being wrong. Cold fusion anyone? Gold from sea water? Fossil bacteria in a Martian meteorite? The Mayans new about the end of the world in 21 December 2012?
Not many believers in that last one any longer. :mrgreen:

The forum is full of threads where people have promised "I will come back and report" but never did. Maybe they lost the data, never finished the project or so, but few is as cryptic as this post and the videos. If Mod had worked for half a year already, why couldn't he just have waited another week on Kurt to test the "new procedure" and then presented a method?

A least we know it's not reverse AR at all, so much Kurt already told us and that should be stated clearly to not confuse anyone that research the reverse AR procedure.

Still waiting on a clarification of what all this is about.

Göran

 

[modtheworld44]

This is exciting, more exciting than the eclipse, I have 50 lbs. of pins waiting for the Sledge.

kazamir

I have decided to rename it the "M44 Process".I like it way better.What type of base metal,a mix,well it doesn't even apply to this process.I have run ceramic cpus,gold filled,pins of all sorts,gold plated coaxial's connectors,brass,aluminium,even stainless that want dissolve but will free the gold.

Here's a question for all who want to contribute some real calculated data.
Please some one who is good with equations check my math.

If kazamir wanted to fully dissolve all fifty pounds of pins and do it quickly and say with nitric and in five pound batches.I'll figure it as if the pins were all copper based.

3.8-3.9ml per gram of copper
50lbs x 454=22,700grams
22,700 x 3.8=86,260ml of nitric
86,260ml /1000=86.26 lt
86.26lt / 3.78541=22gallons of nitric

Price of refine for small time refiner like me for 22gallons of nitric 300-1000 dollars minimum.Let's not forget to at least add time it would take to run it on one heat source(because most of us only have one)=maybe a week just a guess.

My process I could get it down to 300 dollars or below, and time about the same week maybe less.

This is just an example and my measurements might be wrong or off,so please just correct it with a scientific perspective.

If some one would like to do the equation for doing the same 50lbs in say AR,AP or any non cyanide process(another words processes that almost all members would have access to the chemicals used)then feel free.Keep in mind these parameters,one heat source,container availability,cost of chemicals to small refiners to little or no connection,time it actually takes to completely dissolve lbs of material,time it takes to get from start to melt.

To all yall guys who are actually willing to hear me out and give me the time of day.Thank you for your effort and support on this,it really means the World to me.Thank You Forum for the Knowledge yall have provided me.



modtheworld44

 

[danieldavies]

Im looking forward to the results. Keep it up.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Speaking, not as a moderator, but just as a forum member, I'm willing to wait till Kurt has a chance to test this and hear what Mod is doing.

We all carry baggage through life, and Mod has a bit that's been created here and on RoPM. I don't know him, so I don't understand his style, or his motivation for claiming to be a dummy, or why he released these videos before being willing to describe the chemistry or process behind them. So it's no surprise that there are opinions on both sides of the fence.

Many advertising campaigns have been launched in similar fashion to create some buzz / hype / interest before a product is released. Maybe that's what he's doing here.

He has said he will share the process, so I, for one, intend to be patient and wait for him to do so. If he follows through, we can all evaluate the process and decide if it meets our individual needs. If he doesn't, we will react to that if it happens.

Until then, I hope we'll all try to keep things positive.

Dave

 

[maynman1751]

Wisely spoken Dave!!!!

 

[Geo]

This is not meant to demean or criticize.

Jerry, I really understand what you feel. The one and only problem that I had and still have with your processes is that this is the way you want to present them. Very cryptic and sketchy. I have never felt that you were "dumb" or unintelligent and don't believe anyone else does. You have a tendency to want to rush into something and then post about before you are ready. It's a good idea to let other members try and recreate what you are doing and as a matter of fact, I'm the one that suggested it a long time ago. Instead of a preview, why not wait until these members have been able to recreate your work. No one is going to claim your work. You have time to wait. That way you can post the process in full with the blessings of other members to stand behind you. Posting bits and pieces tends to get on peoples nerves. It's this, that has caused people to act the way they do. If you have figured out a short cut or have perfected a process, wait until it can be reproduced by other members and then post the entire process for everyone to try. Don't be hurt if someone tries to debunk your ideas but instead, just refer to other members who has successfully tried the process. All this cryptic stuff alluding to a better way just puts people off is all I'm trying to say.

Good luck.

 

[Palladium]

I believe in open source projects. Like Geo said no one is going to scam the credit for your work on here. If that was the case then this board would not have had the contributions to knowledge it has over the years. You will find that a project can move along at a much greater rate of development as well as have a higher correction factor for innovation and improvements if that project is worked on by many individuals instead of one. I could care less about the chemical process side of what your doing because to me you are not going to beat me at nitric. I can run that lot with 22 gallons of nitric for less than $75 and i to can do it in less than a day. You need very little heat do the whole 50 lbs at once verses small lots like you mention. The size of the lot and the solution itself will generate all the heat you need until the end where you MIGHT need a little. I also don't like catchy code words for the process. This ain't ebay, and this ain't T-6, give it a more scientific name if you want to be taken more seriously. I am interested in the fact that you're trying to find new ground and that even though it may not be the scientific break though of the year it may still have its applications for the small refiner who can't access cheap plentiful nitric like you mentioned. Time will tell the tell. His accent is just as country as mine! :mrgreen: I'm watching with interest.

 

[JHS]

I just wonder if any other member has taken as much ridicule as Jerry has,and still thinks about sharing .Personally I would not go through this to share anything.I used to tell my kids,if you want a piece of candy,ask, please may I have a piece of candy.
Jerry is not looking for anyone to ask please,but he is still willing to share.I,myself might have made a video and sold it on ebay for $50.00 a shot and said if you want my hard work,pay for my time in developing the process.
JHS

 

[Palladium]

The man deserves to be heard. I'll give him credit for trying! The outcome is a different story, but he should have the chance to plead his theory.

 

[solar_plasma]

I've never seen the posts, where Jerry had taken any ridicule, but that depends on the definition of ridicule of course. I think half of, what we have written here, would better have been written in bar&grill :lol:

I am very interested in the method, but I do quite not mind if it is shared or not. I already know 2 types of "sledge hammer" and plenty of variations, most I already tried. If anyone shares something, he doesn't do it for free, he gains something - maybe it makes him feel to be part of a fellowship (true in my case), or someone might gain respect and credits (not needed, but cool anyways), others can't take that their valuable knowledge disappears together with their own lives. I am sure there are a lot of other motivations, but one thing for sure, nobody, not even mother Theresa does anything without having any advantage. Well, this is one view to look at human behaviour, but it is the most scientific one.

The man deserves to be heard. I'll give him credit for trying! The outcome is a different story, but he should have the chance to plead his theory.

Yap! I love those developing stories of trial, error and success.

 

[Geo]

Ridicule is kind of strong. I would say constructive criticism at the most.

 

[Anonymous]

Ridicule is kind of strong. I would say constructive criticism at the most.

Humour me Geo and point out the constructive criticism in the two comments below please? It's a genuine question because I'm honestly struggling to see it.

Firstly "I would call this useless as it is for the forum at large. Nothing to see here folks, move on!"

Then "Goran I had the same thing typed up but thought a moderates should say it. So thank you for saying it this is just forum clutter.

We should take guesses on the chemistry though for fun."

 

[JHS]

Ridicule is kind of strong. I would say constructive criticism at the most.

Humour me Geo and point out the constructive criticism in the two comments below please? It's a genuine question because I'm honestly struggling to see it.

Firstly "I would call this useless as it is for the forum at large. Nothing to see here folks, move on!"

Then "Goran I had the same thing typed up but thought a moderates should say it. So thank you for saying it this is just forum clutter.

We should take guesses on the chemistry though for fun."

Yes Geo,please do
JHS

 

[solar_plasma]

I would call this useless as it is for the forum at large. Nothing to see here folks, move on!

Well, as the 4th post in this thread, this had been correct so far. First later it was explained, what lies behind this topic.

Come on, brothers! Try not to lay every single word said on the gold weight. This is hard when somebody feels personally involved, nobody does know this better than tender me :mrgreen: But everyone should try not to take anyone, especially himself, too serious.

 

[Anonymous]

Hehe Bjorn that's a good perspective to take. I like it. 8) 8)

I will bow to your better judgement mate. :lol:

 

[JHS]

Hehe Bjorn that's a good perspective to take. I like it. 8) 8)

I will bow to your better judgement mate. :lol:

OK me too,but i still think everything past Kurtak's first post is just clutter and should be moved to bar & grill so when the process is posted we don't have all this junk in the way.
john

 

[solar_plasma]

:lol: Until now whole of the thread is just goss and coffee klatsch. It could be moved to bar&grill already now and Jerry should post his discovery straightly and complete in a new thread.

 

[g_axelsson]

Ridicule is kind of strong. I would say constructive criticism at the most.

Humour me Geo and point out the constructive criticism in the two comments below please? It's a genuine question because I'm honestly struggling to see it.

Firstly "I would call this useless as it is for the forum at large. Nothing to see here folks, move on!"

Then "Goran I had the same thing typed up but thought a moderates should say it. So thank you for saying it this is just forum clutter.

We should take guesses on the chemistry though for fun."

I stand by my comments, but you only cited the last line where I summed up my feelings. To be fair I think you should read all I wrote as something that belongs together.

Maybe I'm a troll, but I'm not seeing any sharing with the forum.

A bowl with a bubbling reaction in a dark liquid. Talking about "chemicals" in shot glasses, powder and some catalyst.
What is the gain of using "reverse AR" and still dissolving all the material? As I see it, the advantage of reverse AR is that you don't have to dissolve all materials.
There is some truth in Kurt's words, maybe your variant of reverse AR is that it isn't reverse AR at all. Just hitting the scrap with the chemical equality of a 10 pound sledge hammer.

Not once mention in writing or in the video what chemicals you use.

I would call this useless as it is for the forum at large. Nothing to see here folks, move on!

Göran

What I was telling is that as it was presented it doesn't share anything unless you have prior knowledge of what the process consists of.

Spaceships, can you point out what in these two videos are useful for someone that hasn't prior knowledge?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrkgnYoCSxQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UApF-C9Uqbs

I still stand by my words that nothing of value has been shared so far. It's three chemicals, one in shot glasses, one is a powder and one is a catalyst, oh I almost forgot, "it's nice".
Remember that it's not only seasoned refiners that read these threads, clueless newbies does so too and need guidance.

This does only reflect my own views, I haven't discussed this thread with any other of the moderators. Whenever I speak as a moderator I will tell you so, until then I'm just an ordinary member of this forum.

Göran

 

[Smack]

You doubters need to chill for a few. The results will be self evident soon enough. Y'all should be more concerned about the fact that if it is a good and viable process, he chose to share it with anyone at all. If it's not as billed it should serve as a big boost to your ego, either way you win.