Modtheworld44's Reverse AR Variation

[4metals]

One thing that this forum has reinforced in my education as a refiner is that the more people look at a problem from many different perspectives, the more variations they produce. This has in the past resulted in some better methods than the "experts" ever thought of. The one thing about learning is that once you think you can't learn any more, you're done, you won't learn any more. So I, for one, am open to trying any method a member posts if it meets certain criteria related to the scientific process.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective) this requires complete disclosure, and no misstatement of facts.

This thread has yet to disclose any detail and it has misstated some key facts.

The thread title is misleading. What this forum has dubbed reverse AR, is a process involving the use of a blend of low percentages of hydrochloric acid and large percentages of nitric acid. But reverse AR does dissolve the gold, Mod's process does not, and reverse AR passivates the stainless steel it was configured to work in a way that results in no dissolution of the substrate material. Mod's process completely dissolves the base material. For the record, this process is not a variation of reverse AR.

I have to agree with Goran, without specific detail, this thread is little more than a tease. However in defense of Mod's stated intentions I think we should all wait for details. With details, more members can try this process and give it a thorough evaluation. And if it stands up to that test, it will be placed in the library and become another tool that refiners have in dealing with the many variations of scrap presented for recovery. But it all starts with disclosure.

 

[kurtak]

But it all starts with disclosure.

That should be forth coming before the end of this week

One thing holding it up is me getting the dry chem so I can run the process - found it late in the day yesterday with a phone call - going to get it today

Tomorrow I "absolutely" have to run my big furnace to do some smelting - tomorrow is the "only" day in the extended forecast that is going to be warm enough for me to do this

I already had other things planed for Tue & Wed but am going to see how I can juggle those plans a bit in order to fit running the process on one or the other of those two days

I will shoot for Tue - other wise Wed

Kurt

 

[solar_plasma]

Since the speculations already started, I will unsolicitedly add my 2 cents :mrgreen: :

The bubbles and the way the liquid is bubbling remembers a lot to H2O2. No brown gasses, so probably but not necessarily there is not HNO3 or a nitrate involved. The reaction looks a lot like sulfuric acid - the vapors look like water rather then hydrochloric, but since it has been disclosed no sulfuric has been used, I would assume it is some kind of sulfate or persulfate. The third ingredient can only be a dilluted acid, in my simple mind's ignorant realms.

 

[kazamir]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqo6aIk8cgU

Above is a link to Mods third video.

 

[Geo]

Cool to watch. I can get gold foils from pins in a day and night using copper chloride and my oxygen concentrator. No boiling, no heat. Just AP and pure oxygen. If you want to remove base metal and leave the gold foils faster, ferric chloride will react just like that when heated. An oxidizer will drive the reaction forward without ever dissolving any gold. I will be interested in how Jerry's process is going to be better.

 

[butcher]

Looks very similar to what I do with concentrated hot concentrated copper chloride and or iron chloride.
I didn't really want to comment on this thread until some detail was given, at this point all is just speculation.

 

[Shark]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqo6aIk8cgU

Above is a link to Mods third video.

I think that was the first video.

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

Maybe I'm a troll, but I'm not seeing any sharing with the forum.

A bowl with a bubbling reaction in a dark liquid. Talking about "chemicals" in shot glasses, powder and some catalyst.
What is the gain of using "reverse AR" and still dissolving all the material? As I see it, the advantage of reverse AR is that you don't have to dissolve all materials.
There is some truth in Kurt's words, maybe your variant of reverse AR is that it isn't reverse AR at all. Just hitting the scrap with the chemical equality of a 10 pound sledge hammer.

Not once mention in writing or in the video what chemicals you use.

I would call this useless as it is for the forum at large. Nothing to see here folks, move on!

Göran

Goran I had the same thing typed up but thought a moderates should say it. So thank you for saying it this is just forum clutter.

We should take guesses on the chemistry though for fun.

Sulfuric acid shot glass
Sodium nitrate powder
H2O2 catalyst

etack

Sorry not quite,but that is the best way to make nitric though in my opinion.You should try it,you might like the nitric thats produced from it.Thanks for the guess but this wasn't intended as a guessing game thread.Guess you'll just have to wait for the last of the beta testing to get done to know the chemicals used.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

If you didn't want a guessing game than you shouldn't post cryptic threads that only two other members are clear on.

I don't care what your NEW way is, 'cause its not new its just new to you. Like the "H2O cell" people have been making colloidal silver that way forever. In your H2O cell videos you dont even show the silver plate removed all the way.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+make+colloidal+silver&oq=how+to+make+collo&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.10918j0j9&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

If you want to strip silver plate read this.
This is the patent for it no guessing just facts.

http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/0f32bf8f1b927e10c230/EP1487646B1.pdf
http://www.google.com/patents/US6783690

Just be safe and have a great day................

Eric

etack

I don't know if you thought I would actually look and read all those link or not,but if not you were wrong.If your going to try and debate against something you should know what your debating about and know what your talking about.This is strictly my opinion and nothing more.It is obvious that you haven't even tried the H2O cell and the links are about stripping silver from circuit boards and for making colloidal silver,which is not what my H2O cell is used for at all so when you can get your facts straight we can continue this debate in a PM.Thanks for bringing the dummy out of me.



modtheworld44

Mod, if you refuse to watch videos that a member in good standing is suggesting might clarify what is being discussed, then what does that say about you? Regardless how I feel about a discussion, if material is presented that might clarify something that was stated, I am going to check it out so that I have a better understanding of at least what is being explained.

If you are going to accuse etack of not understanding what he's talking about, you might do well to go back and read his posts. He has never in my estimation or experience in reading his posts, had any problem ever admitting that he is not clear about knowing something, as well it has also been my pleasure to read posts where he has explained something or presented information that clarified something. You might do well yourself to know who it is you are talking about, before you make assumptions about their ability to understand the subject matter.

You seem to NOT understand that the same way an H2O cell functions is the same way that silver could be stripped from circuit boards, and the same way colloidal silver can be made. How do I know this? Well I have done all these things using the same equipment, in the same way as an H2O cell. So prior to making a grand stand by refusing to look into information that was presented to you as a way to help you understand what it is that is being discussed you might do yourself a favor and look into it. Honestly, it only takes up a small portion of your time, and will save you countless hours of speculation or engaging people in forum threads with the sole purpose of defending your position, which honestly is not really defensible. In this day and age, when information is so incredibly, readily available, there is literally no reason for you to post in ignorance when it can be resolved so easily.

I am not sure why you feel the need to be so secretive when you have already stated you are going to eventually disclose your process. Whatever it is you are doing, regardless of what your solution consists of, has already been done. As has been stated by other members, you might serve your intent far better by seeking advice and help, rather than pretending you have some super secret recipe you have concocted and only shared with a few "secret squirrel" ring holders. The only thing all this advertising does is build expectation, either for failure or unreal success. Once you have divulged the actual process, after such a climatic build up, it will most likely be a huge let down.

You should be given the opportunity, as all members should be, to prove your process without being accused of certain things, unless you play games as it seems you are in this thread. I am not sure if you are just attempting to drive youtube views, or if you enjoy dragging all this out for attention, or if you are just simply very different. I can say this, the way you are going about this will cause people to create an opinion about you prior to you ever disclosing anything, which may or may not be favorable or correct. In the future you might want to consider this prior to posting.

Scott

 

[kazamir]

Mod is a down to earth guy. Before throwing out his idea for every newbie to try he wisely sought the help of other GRF refiners to study the process. I hope the three that he chose take as much time as required. What Mod has done was to give GRF a considerate Heads Up.

 

[4metals]

A thread like this can do nothing more than divide members of the forum. When Mod decides to present his findings he can start a new thread as I am locking this one.

I hope Mod is true to his word and posts the process whether or not it works to his liking. Anything less would be disingenuous.