My results of specific types of IC chips, flatpacks and BGA

[Tzoax]

I finished testing. First beaker - 0.01g of gold, second beaker (with dissolved silver) - no gold.


My conclusion is that solder balls should be processed with HCl simmer boiling/incineration (like i did at first test) and there is no point melting it, it will just reduce gold content (some of the gold will be left in residues) and based on poor results of this second test - 0.01g it is obvious that something is wrong. I think it really needs incineration for better results.

I am still saving solder balls and now i know how i will process them in the future.

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

Hey Alex, have you tried a sulfuric leach at all on any small experiments?

I wonder if it would be a more efficient acid for the solder removal? Yes, it is very dangerous hot, but it can be a great tool in the fight against tin.

I have not used it as much, since I started doing incineration then hcl leach, but that is primarily when dealing with the little solder encountered in jewelry.

With escrap, bga solder balls specifically, the amount of tin is quite a bit higher, so the sulfuric might be a better initial choice, then move on to the torch and hcl. Where the bit of solder than remains could get oxidized and removed.

Just throwing out ideas, may not be a practical choice on a larger scale, but for a small test its at least worth a shot.

Best of luck dear friend

 

[Tzoax]

Hey Alex, have you tried a sulfuric leach at all on any small experiments?

I wonder if it would be a more efficient acid for the solder removal? Yes, it is very dangerous hot, but it can be a great tool in the fight against tin.

I have not used it as much, since I started doing incineration then hcl leach, but that is primarily when dealing with the little solder encountered in jewelry.

With escrap, bga solder balls specifically, the amount of tin is quite a bit higher, so the sulfuric might be a better initial choice, then move on to the torch and hcl. Where the bit of solder than remains could get oxidized and removed.

Just throwing out ideas, may not be a practical choice on a larger scale, but for a small test its at least worth a shot.

Best of luck dear friend

Thank you Topher, great idea. I haven't tried it with sulfuric leach. I don't have experience with sulphuric since i never used it, maybe one day. It really isn't very bad processing it with HCl/incineration either. It just needs a little more time, and i am satisfied with results processing it that way.

Alex

 

[snoman701]

Is the Parkes process of any use for this.

Even if you got to zinc+tin+PM's, you should at least get past 60% of the mass in lead, as well as the difficulty of the lead causing the tin to passivate. (that does happen right?)

 

[Johnny5]

BGA VARIOUS CHIPS
All of the types og BGA chips, already separated from green bases with a heat gun. They do not have magnetic parts.
BGA var 274.6g 172pcs.jpg
BGA var 182.3g 114pcs.jpg
Total weight of chips - 456.9g
Number of chips - 286pcs
Avg weight of 1 chip - 1.597552448g
Gold recovered 5.2g
Gold content per 1kg - 11.381046g
Gold content per 1 chip - 0.018181818g

Have you ever had your gold tested (XRF)?

 

[Tzoax]

BGA VARIOUS CHIPS
All of the types og BGA chips, already separated from green bases with a heat gun. They do not have magnetic parts.
BGA var 274.6g 172pcs.jpg
BGA var 182.3g 114pcs.jpg
Total weight of chips - 456.9g
Number of chips - 286pcs
Avg weight of 1 chip - 1.597552448g
Gold recovered 5.2g
Gold content per 1kg - 11.381046g
Gold content per 1 chip - 0.018181818g

Have you ever had your gold tested (XRF)?

Of course. The purity was 997 last time (including all those IC chips from tests).

All gold from my tests was washed (3xHCl-3xdist.water-3xHCl boiled) and well dried before weighting.

After collecting many of small gold samples from those tests i process them once again with AR and wash the gold again. Then i test the gold with XRF before melting.

After second AR treatment the only contaminant was very little of silver chloride.

 

[Johnny5]

Please help me understand this.

-3xHCl boiled

You boiled the gold powder in HCl 3 times?

and well dried before weighting

The weights you posted were of the powder?

i process them once again with AR and wash the gold again

Then you boiled it again 3 times in HCl?

Then i test the gold with XRF before melting.

Then you XRF the powder, and not the melted gold?

After second AR treatment the only contaminant was very little of silver chloride

According to you, you posted the weights after the first wash, prior to the second wash, when you discovered the AgCl.


All quotes were taken in the order they were written, and nothing was assumed or taken out of context. So am I correct on these things above?

 

[Tzoax]

Please help me understand this.

-3xHCl boiled

You boiled the gold powder in HCl 3 times?

and well dried before weighting

The weights you posted were of the powder?

i process them once again with AR and wash the gold again

Then you boiled it again 3 times in HCl?

Then i test the gold with XRF before melting.

Then you XRF the powder, and not the melted gold?

After second AR treatment the only contaminant was very little of silver chloride

According to you, you posted the weights after the first wash, prior to the second wash, when you discovered the AgCl.


All quotes were taken in the order they were written, and nothing was assumed or taken out of context. So am I correct on these things above?

Results are after first AR treatment and first wash. One wash = 3xdistilled water + 3xHCl water + 3xdistilled water boiled. Because there are many of small tests results it would be much expensive to me to test it separately, i have no XRF scanner, so i pay to a mining company about 10 euros for one scan. But, considering there will always be some contaminants, i always process everyting together wirh AR/washing once again for two reasons:
1.That gold (along with a bit of contaminants) becomes homogeneous which is very important for XRF test
2. To make it more purer

* When i said little silver chloride, the solution was not 100% crystal clear, it was half-transparent. After one day very thin layer of silver chloride settled on the bottom. After decanting, the gold was dropped, XRF scanned and melted. And the result of XRF scanner was 997 gold purity.

Alex

 

[Johnny5]

If what I said is true(and you did not disagree with what I said), then all of the numbers that you have posted so far on this thread, are more than likely very inaccurate.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Johnny, do you have some yield data of your own you'd like to share?

I think Alexander has been pretty clear in what he's done and the numbers he's reported.

Take his numbers the way you wish, but let's not be too critical of a member who's willing to share those numbers.

Dave

 

[kernels]

This is one of the very best threads in this section, Alexander's results are appropriate for the source material and procedures that he follows. Johhny5, are you suggesting that Alex's results are low or high ?

 

[Tzoax]

If what I said is true(and you did not disagree with what I said), then all of the numbers that you have posted so far on this thread, are more than likely very inaccurate.

Johnny, i see your point but a very little of silver chloride that i "discovered" after second AR treatment of 100g of gold (from many of small batches) was so thin on the bottom of the beaker that it was almost transparent. And i disagree that it could be called "very inaccurate". I did second refinement just to make it "little more" purer.

There will always be some "losses" after second AR refining, but they are so small so they can not affect at yields that much so they could be called "very inaccurate" results.

Anyway, because as we know that even two "same" IC chips could have different yields based on many factors, these tests i am doing are more like a direction what to expect from a certain type of IC chip. Of course that results will vary each time, but not much. And it is impossible to make "accurate" yields. But, i can say for example that one type of IC chips are always giving about 1g of gold per kilogram and another type will always give 2.2g of gold per kilogram. And that information is so important (to me) because i can estimate approximate value of boards (before i buy it) just by seeing it. It could be anything i never saw before - medical, telecom, military equipment....but i do recognize IC chips and i can calculate the value based on that.

Many times i had opportunity to buy a lot of boards that i never saw before. I couldn't estimate the yield/price that i could pay for it so i didn't. Last time (several years ago) i had opportunity to buy a van full of poker boards for 20 cents per board. Boards was loaded with IC chips...but i had no idea what to expect from it, so i didn't. Then i decided to test all types of IC chips so i could finally know. So i did, and now i just need couple of those "chances" to buy a good material.

Back then, if i knew these results....(it is hard for me to think about all of those lost chances)...if there was any reliable data i could count on.....a lot of gold would be in my hands.

But...chances just come and go...if you don't buy it (as soon as possible) somebody else will, so as soon as i realized how important this is i started to test. I spent several years testing all kind of materials, and now i am sharing these informations here on GRF because i know there are people who will find it very helpful.

Alex

 

[kurtak]

, and now i am sharing these informations here on GRF because i know there are people who will find it very helpful.

Alex

Alex

Just want to say - you have done an absolutely AWESOME job with providing the "Ball Park" data of yield to expect from the many types of chip

Ball Park = a "very close" expectation - which is the very best ANYONE can provide for this type material - its the best you can do with this type material because of all the variation in chips that look "exactly" the same :!:

Variation's such as year made - company made by - application chip is used for etc. etc.

I can say this & I can say it because I have processed literally a couple thousand pounds of chip over the last 5 or 6 years --- & although chips can/will very plus/minus "some" from the numbers you have provided - that plus/minus is not going to very enough to make or break you buying chips based on your data

Your number certainly are NOT - "likely very inaccurate." --- but rather "very Ball Park" :!:

Soooo - I want to "personally" THANK YOU for all the HARD WORK you put into providing this thread - I certainly have not seen anyone else do such a FINE JOB :!: 8) :G :mrgreen:

Kurt

 

[philddreamer]

Alex, thank you for all the hard work and for sharing your findings! :G

Take care!
Phil

 

[Johnny5]

Point taken. I apologize.

 

[Tzoax]

Thank you all very much for support, and seeing a point of what i am doing here. I am not a professional, this is best what i can do (so far). Over time i learned a lot and still learning thanks to you - members of GRF, my experience grows and now i finally have 2 decimals scales.

Like i said, i will repeat tests for every single type of IC chip i did plus some new types i never did with much more experience and knowledge including much more details, pictures, and more accurate 2 decimal scales.

I started to collect IC chips for testing. This is a list. When i collect about 1 kg of each type i will start testing.

Alex

 

[Tzoax]

Considering processors are also types of IC chips i am sharing with you my test results dating several years ago.

Keep in mind that i had less experience then now and my scales had only one decimal. At least these results can give some rough directions.



* These values are without processing kovar lids. The avg. weight of kovar lids are included.
Results of processing kovar lids:



Alex

 

[patnor1011]

I see that few people here do use poormans AR and wanted to ask a question. What is the rate of consumption of nitrates? I mean that let's suppose you have 100g of concentrate and need to make poormans AR how much of nitrate do you use to dissolve it? That concentrate is from mixed IC so there is some amount of tiny pins and some amount of tin there too. I am asking as I tried it and ended up adding several soup spoons of sodium nitrate to about 0.4 l of HCl yet after like 5 minutes of fizzing, little foaming and solution being dark green all went quiet. I thought that reaction finished, it did not fizz even after additional spoon of sodium nitrate. The solution turned dark deep burgundy/brown/blackish like color so I know some gold dissolved and it looks like colloid. After decanting and washing remaining concentrate it looked like not much of it dissolved. I could still see most of the gold there and also some tiny pieces of metal.

So now I do have to deal with about half a liter of solution with colloidal gold and pretty much the same amount of concentrate than before. Colloid I will boil off to about a half and add fresh HCl that should sort out that mess but so far I have spent about 70-80g of sodium nitrate and I wonder how much more will I need if I want to try it again.

 

[richard2013]

Patnor try these

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=33806&mode=view
I think you need to start with 1L HCL and add several 100ml HCL

 

[Tzoax]

I see that few people here do use poormans AR and wanted to ask a question. What is the rate of consumption of nitrates? I mean that let's suppose you have 100g of concentrate and need to make poormans AR how much of nitrate do you use to dissolve it? That concentrate is from mixed IC so there is some amount of tiny pins and some amount of tin there too. I am asking as I tried it and ended up adding several soup spoons of sodium nitrate to about 0.4 l of HCl yet after like 5 minutes of fizzing, little foaming and solution being dark green all went quiet. I thought that reaction finished, it did not fizz even after additional spoon of sodium nitrate. The solution turned dark deep burgundy/brown/blackish like color so I know some gold dissolved and it looks like colloid. After decanting and washing remaining concentrate it looked like not much of it dissolved. I could still see most of the gold there and also some tiny pieces of metal.

So now I do have to deal with about half a liter of solution with colloidal gold and pretty much the same amount of concentrate than before. Colloid I will boil off to about a half and add fresh HCl that should sort out that mess but so far I have spent about 70-80g of sodium nitrate and I wonder how much more will I need if I want to try it again.

First thing that comes to my mind is that never used sodium nitrate (NaNO3), i am using potassium nitrate KNO3 for poorman's AR. They are all nitrates but maybe there is some difference related to chemical reaction/consumption.

I never had problems with tin or colloidal gold processing concentrate from IC chips. First of all i remove the chips mechanically with chisel and after that i remove visible wires from the chips with scalpel. That way all the tin from solder will not be there from the start (before pyrolysis and incineration).

But if you removed IC chips with heatgun and there is a lot of tin in the mix, i think it should be removed before pyrolysis, because some of the tin (when pyrolizing) will just cause more troubles later. In that case i would leave IC's in copper II chloride solution to remove tin and other base metals (from visible legs) before pyrolysis (like many do).

You used 0.4l of HCl. Was that concentrated HCl? I am using 20% HCl and i add about 1l for the start. I add couple of KNO3 spoons until reaction slows down. After reaction stops (like in your case) i remove the solution, test it (there should not be gold), and when i replace the fresh HCl with new addition of KNO3 the gold starts to dissolve. After all visible gold (from the bottom of beaker) dissolves, i remove gold chloride solution, and add again just a little more of HCl/KNO3 just to make sure all of gold is dissolved.

When i collect more IC chips i will repeat everything with lot of pictures and i will measure how moch of concentrate i used, how much much of KNO3 i added etc.

Alex