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anachronism said:
I'm not sure why people think someone has to be "of a certain size" to do certain things or to think in a particular way. Thinking in a certain way is what makes it possible to be of a "particular size."

Upon joining the forum in 2012 I didn't do any of this kind of work. Anyone can build something and that was the point of my hurried post.

Enjoy guys it was all meant in a good way. 8)

Edit for context and typo.

You are very correct Jon. Thinking in a certain way opens doors. I study successful people...and I don't really associate much with people who aren't creative out of the box thinkers, so I take it for granted. But there's more to it than just the creativity.

When I talk to others, that supposedly built businesses from nothing, they say they started with nothing...until you get to actually talking. Then you find that they had a scrap hauling business to start with, so they had the infrastructure to move, handle and ship 10,000 lb loads. Or they had $35k from another business that they got out of that they could use as startup funds. Or they were given a no-interest no payback loan from their Dad to buy all their inventory. Or they actually get a monthly check from the government. I've talked with you about the capital you started with. There's no shame in any of that, it's awesome in fact. I'll admit I'm jealous of it. I know that what you, and others built came hard, and that usually includes the starting capital. Even then, there is no doubt in my mind that they still fought their way in to the new venture, and there were lean times and growing pains and frustration...and that the way of thought that you describe was developed largely out of trial and error. I'm sure there were mistakes. Bad buys, bad sells...learning curve crap. I know there are still sacrifices.

I haven't collected a traditional paycheck in two years and four months. And that time has been HARD. We have owned this house for two years and 6 days. Four months prior to that I was fired from a position where I was building wealth so my manager could hire his brother. I poured EVERYTHING I had into this house so we had something that couldn't get taken away...literally everything. As in within the first six months I was 88 days late on the mortgage because I was playing catch up. What hasn't been uphill with a stiff headwind was tumbling downhill.

I've been stuck in survival mode for two years. I get a few grand in the bank, take a couple days and relax...then pay the bills for stuff that can't get shut off or taken away. Usually at that point, I've got enough left to go buy more inventory, to again build. No vacations, no steak dinners, no extras, just survive. The PROBLEM, for me, is transitioning from survival mode to a mode where I am building.

What the reality is, is that finding the nuances that give one an edge comes pretty easy, always have...I'm able to survive, because I can find those nuances. I'll admit, it's not as easy to find them as it once was. I'm not sure if it's my mind, or that there is more competition for wealth that is within the reach of people with nothing.

BUT...I get downright hostile at times, when people suggest it's easy. In the last two years I've waged war on my body with risks that the average employee would never consider taking. I wake up to back pain. I wake up to jaw pain from stress induced clenching. I struggle with depression and anxiety, and at times, even the will to live. When it comes to my drive, I have more in common with our posters from third world countries or other countries where they are willing to take risks that seem ridiculous to those in 1st world. Everything I own and have is in play. So I get downright upset when I'm told "there's so much wrong with that I don't even know where to begin". I'm SHARING my experiences. My blood, my sweat, my tears and most of all, my FAILURES. I don't paint a rose colored picture for other people.
 
Sno by doing exactly what you are doing your break will come, it only needs one and then others seem to just appear as if by magic but you have certainly earned those breaks which if you think about what you wrote about others they did too one way or the other.
I really hate those oh it’s alright for you people because it rarely is, and if it is, it’s come at a cost that few are willing to pay and with risks few will take.
 
nickvc said:
Sno by doing exactly what you are doing your break will come, it only needs one and then others seem to just appear as if by magic but you have certainly earned those breaks which if you think about what you wrote about others they did too one way or the other.
I really hate those oh it’s alright for you people because it rarely is, and if it is, it’s come at a cost that few are willing to pay and with risks few will take.

So I am told. One foot in front of another. :D :D

And I recognize that the breaks are earned by most. Like I said, I study people, I ask. Most are happy to tell you of their lucky break and sacrifices, few are willing to tell you of their failures...you usually have to pry those out of them.

I have a certain amount of respect for Silversaddle, as I know the work involved in any scrapping venture....it does NOT come easy. Actually, upon writing this, it now occurs to me why he would find e-scrap so easy. Compared to making good money on traditional metals, without running a yard, e-scrap IS easy.
 
Nick and Sno you're correct.

The pain is the thing people don't see. They see the end result and assume that you "had a lucky break" or you were handed it on a plate.

Moving from survival mode into building mode isn't easily achieved and one can flit between the two quite regularly even during the course of any given period.

I understand the stress and worry. As an aside Nick's seen me in exactly that place on more than one occasion. The choice that people make when they want to run their own business involves an awful lot of sacrifices. Sacrifices that people who have a job don't have to make. Then the upside is that the financial rewards for getting it right are far better. There's absolutely nothing wrong with making the choice to have a stable career. It carries its own good and bad things so don't misunderstand me, this isn't a holier than thou post it's one about choice.

I don't criticise people for putting other priorities to the fore, and going for stability and security. For some reason though, people who do well for themselves seem to be fair game and I'm not entirely sure why that's right.
 
anachronism said:
Nick and Sno you're correct

I don't criticise people for putting other priorities to the fore, and going for stability and security. For some reason though, people who do well for themselves seem to be fair game and I'm not entirely sure why that's right.

It’s a simple reason they see their bosses getting richer and them getting better off but don’t understand the difference between one and the other, for many self employed people their whole life and everything they own and more is on the line at any given moment, the nice house,the cars,the way of life can vanish in one deal if they get it wrong, but the upside is if they get it right they go onto do the same again and again, taking the same risks until the challenge becomes a no risk venture, ie they are financially secure and no loss will change that.
I know a fair few very very wealthy people who do not need to work but enjoy the challenge it brings and the only proof of success is what it earns them, they don’t need the money but crave the challenge, are they lucky or is it just they love to take that risk that many won’t!
 
The saying "No pain, No gain" certainly isn't limited to exercise. It rears it's head in all walks of life. It is how a person picks them self up and moves on that defines each one of us as who we are.
 
There are many rags to riches stories out there. Me and my wife started out with a Stanley screwdriver set, a hammer, a pair of wire cutters and a short box chevy pick-up. Plus we worked two full time jobs, paid rent, and made payments on two vehicles. Then the kids came and it was even harder. We would drive a "route" every weeknight, diving into dumpsters to pull out any scrap metal we could. We made our own breaks, found our own contacts, and expanded the company inch by inch. Years and years of hard knocks, wins, losses, and grit has brought us to where we are now. Been self employed for over 20 years, 100% metal recycling. We still to this day roll up in pick-up type trucks and pick up electronic scrap from many local governments, banks, and companies, both large and small. We are fully insured, and our data destruction program meets all guidelines set forth in NIST 800-88r1. Our degausser is NSA/DOD approved and is a listed machine. We are not permitted by the state as Iowa does not require any permits for electronic recycling unless you are de-manufacturing CRTs. We have a very small customer list that keeps us more than busy for two people. We don't advertise, we don't do cold calls. All our contacts are made via "word of mouth" and we seem to get a few new clients every year. The recent downturn in the markets has hurt everyone, us included. We are lucky enough that we carry no debt on the business, so we are stockpiling all our gold bearing materials for now. The prices will come back, they always do. Until then, onward.

There is so much e-scrap out there that new businesses seem to pop up every day. And some fall as well. The big guys got hit pretty hard in the plastics and CRT glass collapse. I have seen it first hand here locally where there is 85,000 pounds of CRT tubes sitting in a warehouse that was foreclosed on. 155 gaylords of tubes. Wanna deal with that? :eek:
 
silversaddle1 said:
We are lucky enough that we carry no debt on the business, so we are stockpiling all our gold bearing materials for now. The prices will come back, they always do. Until then, onward.

There is so much e-scrap out there that new businesses seem to pop up every day. And some fall as well. The big guys got hit pretty hard in the plastics and CRT glass collapse. I have seen it first hand here locally where there is 85,000 pounds of CRT tubes sitting in a warehouse that was foreclosed on. 155 gaylords of tubes. Wanna deal with that? :eek:

The debt is hard. I took out what should have been a microloan about a year and a half ago. It was just a working capital loan from paypal, cheap money with a rapid payoff because I set the payment terms to 30% of gross paypal payments. Weeks after taking out the loan, my plans of selling like crazy on Ebay were thwarted as my dads cancer took a drastic turn and he passed six months later....life has been a mess since. What I've found is that the otherwise small amount that I borrowed has left me completely crippled. I've ended up relying upon my income from refining and escrap sales, whereas before I was reliant upon Ebay for income and the opposite for business growth.

30% off the top doesn't seem like much when you've been doing and have plans to do $3,000 a week on Ebay...but when it turns in to listing when you have time, and you see a $25 sale turn in to a balance increase of $9.25 after shipping and fees...it's devastating to motivation.

I've got $315 left to pay off my loan.

As for the competition....I don't get it. They show up at the rate of one a month. Thankfully, I rarely see the same one twice.

I can say though, I'm really hoping for some clarity and payoff before the end of the year. I'm due.
 
Life has a way of throwing us some terrible surprises. I'm sorry for the loss of your dad. I've lost both of my parents as well.

It sounds like you're at least about to turn the corner on that loan. I hope that will relieve some of the pressure.

I wish you the best in getting through your tough times.

Dave
 
I can understand problems arising from the loss of family. I buried my favorite Aunt this summer and her son, one of my close cousins, as well. My mother and stepdad had been married for over 45 years. We lost him in May of this year and my Mother earlier this month. The one thing that keeps me going has been that they raised me to not quit. I have felt like it a few times the past few years, but where is the education in giving up. Your to close to let up now!
 
Exactly Shark.

Sadly the only two certain things in life are death and taxes. Life goes on and we owe it to the people before us to carry on.

They wouldn't want us to lose our own way would they?

Jon
 
anachronism said:
Sadly the only two certain things in life are death and taxes.

The revenue service offers very affordable interest charges for late payment of taxes.

Unfortunately, it's not a universal solution to the certainties!
 
Reading all these replies this morning, as I haven't been following this thread, has truly been an eye opener. For some reason, I have always felt like I am the only one getting kicked when I've been down. I look around and see people working full time and remembering the security I had. There are times when I want to kick myself but I keep telling myself that one day it will pay off. I'll be honest guys, I look around sometimes and wonder what I am going to do and a check will come in or I will get a call and its just enough to pay this weeks bills.
Thankfully my wife has been able to keep ebay going just enough to cover our truck payments. I see the light at the end of the tunnel, the only problem is the tunnel is long and has obstacles all the way through. I keep pushing and telling myself this is for the grandkids or I would have given up a long time ago. At this point, I have to go out and drive Uber for a few days, maybe weeks, to bring the bottom line back up to struggle mode.
I want to thank everyone of you guys that have shared the experiences you are going through. It means a lot knowing I'm not alone. Its about time to get to work so I will talk to you guys later.

Mike
 
Geo, Sonny has had it a lot worse so I don't talk about it. I didn't want to shadow over the issues going on with Sonny and April.
I'm ok, got a roof over my head and bills have been covered so far. Just hasn't been anything extra for a while. Business has been slow going but I am getting my name out. I must be doing something right as I have repeat customers. I had troubles with advertising on Googles new adwords express program so I am ditching it and going to do just adwords. Hopefully that will put me back on track.
Anyways, thanks for the concern Geo but I'm good.

Mike
 
everydayisalesson said:
Reading all these replies this morning, as I haven't been following this thread, has truly been an eye opener. For some reason, I have always felt like I am the only one getting kicked when I've been down. I look around and see people working full time and remembering the security I had. There are times when I want to kick myself but I keep telling myself that one day it will pay off. I'll be honest guys, I look around sometimes and wonder what I am going to do and a check will come in or I will get a call and its just enough to pay this weeks bills.
Thankfully my wife has been able to keep ebay going just enough to cover our truck payments. I see the light at the end of the tunnel, the only problem is the tunnel is long and has obstacles all the way through. I keep pushing and telling myself this is for the grandkids or I would have given up a long time ago. At this point, I have to go out and drive Uber for a few days, maybe weeks, to bring the bottom line back up to struggle mode.
I want to thank everyone of you guys that have shared the experiences you are going through. It means a lot knowing I'm not alone. Its about time to get to work so I will talk to you guys later.

Mike

I have an acquaintance with which I'll occasionally attend social events with. At the last one we were talking about his new job, he's an engineer. He joked how he negotiated for his vacation time...that he had so many years of experience and wasn't going to have only 10 days of vacation, how he took a $10k pay cut on the offer so he could have an extra two weeks vacation. I felt like crap following that conversation for days. He equates his time to being worth approximately $1,000 per business day. I was on the identical career path. I was going to one of the top ranked engineering schools in the country. Well....when my dad got sick with cancer the first time, his surgery was expected to take 4 hours, it took 16. I called work half way thru to call in for the next day (I was an engineering co-op, a senior). I was told I needed to reexamine my priorities. I did.

My wife finally set me straight. My acquaintance is quick to tell me how he wants to do woodworking, and metalworking, and have a garden, and farm animals, and all these other things...but he doesn't have time to do anything. I do all these things because I want to do them, and I can. I don't get to take vacations to exotic places, but every day at 4pm, my daughter and I make dinner together. I spend every night with my family. Travel for work always has me home the same day, or I take my family with me.

Everyone faces their own problems. I would say that people that I consider to be "highly effective" people, are for the most part, the most miserable people I know. There are few exceptions...the exceptions are always creative people that value their friends over everything.
 
snoman701 said:
anachronism said:
Sadly the only two certain things in life are death and taxes.

The revenue service offers very affordable interest charges for late payment of taxes.

Unfortunately, it's not a universal solution to the certainties!

I got behind in payroll taxes (940's & 941's) back in the 07, 08 area. Business slowed some :? They put liens on my property, business got better, and I have since sold the business. The day I got the letters in the mail from the gov. saying "Certificate of Release of Federal Tax Lien" was a good day. Per my accountant, I used the Tax Advocacy Group and they got all of the late payment penalties wiped and a lot of the interest.
 
I appreciate the replies and I really hope I didn't come across as ungrateful. I have wrote about 6 responses so far just to delete them. All is good, I guess I was just feeling a little down that day. I am happy, as I am spending a lot of time with my wife and grand children. Trying to figure out a way to put something together to leave my children. My dad was a policeman 30 years and paid into everything he was supposed to. He got cancer at 73 and they cancelled his life insurance so basically everything he saved up for us was taken away. He left us the family land that his dad left him. 15 acres in Kentucky but my cousins up the same holler have all but started a red neck camp trailer park. Its really beautiful but there is also no work any where in sight down there. What do you do?

Well guys, I am headed back to the garage. Take care.

Mike
 
It is always easier to see the down side of anything, for some reason. I try to concentrate on the positive and keep moving forward. Sometimes it gets tougher, but then I just try harder. My wife and our family make it easier to see the up side. The day we buried my mother we found out that night our grand daughter is expecting. It will be our first great grand child. Talk about a roller coast ride, this summer has been it. Either super highs or super lows, seems there was no "normal's" this year. It took me over two years to reach 1 ozt of gold, so far this year I have done 6 plus. And I still use just one hot plate, :lol:
 

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