Need help identifying ore apparently found in oregon

[wccurtis89]

It has been done as a reply to your question in another thread.
And of course your general location will make it easier to recommend someone.

And the pictures in the textbooks are way more detailed than most of the out of focused cellphone pictures posted here.

And you are right, good pictures accompanied by detailed information can have good value.

Rhodium ore is not a one thing.
Rhodium is a bi product of other PGMs mined, and I'm wondering if you mean Radium?
A totally different beast all together.

Yes, I saw a recommendation for Hazen Research. I will inquire tomorrow. Thank you so much! I am in Colorado, but I could send samples anywhere in the US. (If for some reason that one didn't work out.)

So is Rhodium just a refined product? Does it not occur naturally? I am just getting into the PGM's, and there is certainly a lot to learn.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Yes, I saw a recommendation for Hazen Research. I will inquire tomorrow. Thank you so much! I am in Colorado, but I could send samples anywhere in the US. (If for some reason that one didn't work out.)

So is Rhodium just a refined product? Does it not occur naturally? I am just getting into the PGM's, and there is certainly a lot to learn.

No it is one of the Platinum group metals, atomic number 45, much more rare than Platinum and Palladium.
Usually found in conjunction with Platinum and Palladium in Nickel or certain Iron ores.
Most if not all production is in South Africa or Russia.
It is also found in Canada.

 

[goldshark]

Hello, I am brand new to this forum, but I figured I would add my two cents worth. Pictures of rocks are a mixed bag... As everyone has stated, you can't positively ID anything based on a picture, but they can be helpful in some cases. Isn't this what the textbooks that trained Geologists used? There is much disdain on the internet for people sharing pictures of rocks and asking for help identifying them, and albeit difficult to be sure, it can sometimes be massively helpful. Coming for personal experience, I have dedicated countless hours educating myself about the geology of Silver, and without pictures, it would be a much less complete understanding. People are so afraid of the one's with experience judging them for asking for help that a lot of people just don't do it. I understand this is a Gold, and precious metal's refining forum, but that has to start in a rock somewhere, at some point. I for one have scoured the internet looking for an assay service for Gold, Silver, and PGM's and cannot find one. I have made numerous phone calls, only to be told that (so and so place) doesn't do it, and they don't know anyone who does.

That being said, the main reason I joined this forum was for exactly that purpose. Can anyone here recommend an assay service?

Based on the pictures, it somewhat resembles Rhodium ore, which if I'm not mistaken is also somewhat radioactive. Probably not enough to set of the detectors though. And as many others have pointed out, sulfide minerals (like chalcopyrite) are non-magnetic, and don't sound off a metal detector. Keep on digging!

- Casey

There are other mineral identification forums on the net. Do a search for " mineral identification forums ". You will find these other forums much more helpful. Some of the members here at GRF, are guestimaters for minerals on these other forums.

 

[stella polaris]

I wouldn't say that the forum is no good at mineralogy and ores. It is the questions and photos presented, and the immediate request for an answer, that irks the forum. I have been following the forum long enough, to see many members just quit responding to these requests. I myself, am about to quit responding to these requests. If we keep responding, the requests will keep coming. I would like to help people, but perhaps an immediate response by the moderators directing to either another mineral related forum, or the usual " read this if you think you have a valuable rock", can be posted immediately, short circuiting many redundant threads.

What i ment is that we are not the best site for this kind of questions. Mineral forums are better. But when it comes with a assay this forum are good.

 

[kurtak]

I for one have scoured the internet looking for an assay service for Gold, Silver, and PGM's and cannot find one.

That being said, the main reason I joined this forum was for exactly that purpose. Can anyone here recommend an assay service?

Have you looked at this thread ------

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/calling-all-experienced-miners-and-prospectors.32553/
If you scroll though it you will find links to a fair number of assay labs & as well links to other things related to minerals/mining/geology

On page 2 Lou listed the names of some assay labs but no actual links so you just need to do "a search" for those companies to find their web sites

Also Action Mining does assays - they don't show it on their web site so you have to call & ask them

https://www.actionmining.com/
Kurt

 

[kurtak]

So is Rhodium just a refined product? Does it not occur naturally?

Of course it occurs naturally (as well as the other PGMs) - BUT - generally it is found as traces (by products) associated with the mining of other minerals such as nickel or chrome etc. etc.

Example; - here where I live in Oregon the old chrome mines also have VERY SMALL traces of PGMs so they mined for the chrome & the PGMs were a VERY SMALL trace by product

In other words - if they mined the ore for the PGMs - & not the chrome they would go broke because the cost to mine & process the ore for the PGMs would FAR EXCEED the value of the PGMs recovered

That is true of were most all of PGMs come from - they are generally "by products" that come from the mining of other minerals

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

Most if not all production is in South Africa or Russia.

I could be wrong but I believe that even in South Africa & Russia the PGMs are a by produce of mining for other minerals

It is just a question of whether or not that PGM by product is worth the recovery/refining (as a secondary process)

It is also found in Canada.

It is also found here in the U.S.A. --- it is just found as secondary by products to other mining

Kurt

 

[Yggdrasil]

I could be wrong but I believe that even in South Africa & Russia the PGMs are a by produce of mining for other minerals

It is just a question of whether or not that PGM by product is worth the recovery/refining (as a secondary process)


It is also found here in the U.S.A. --- it is just found as secondary by products to other mining

Kurt

I do not think it can be mined directly due to the low concentrations.

 

[Alondro]

Looks like massive uranitite. It’s pretty hot if it sets off the detector at a scrap yard. Especially if you had it in a bucket. That means it is not a alfa emitter solo. Danger will robinson.

If it's giving off radiation that can penetrate a plastic bucket wall, then it's GAMMA radiation, not alpha or beta, both of which will be blocked by plastic. That means the sample contains a significant amount of radium, as some of its decay products are gamma emitters. It's also likely releasing radon gas, which also decays by releasing an alpha particle and a gamma ray.

It's basically a cancer rock.

 

[wccurtis89]

Have you looked at this thread ------

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/calling-all-experienced-miners-and-prospectors.32553/
If you scroll though it you will find links to a fair number of assay labs & as well links to other things related to minerals/mining/geology

On page 2 Lou listed the names of some assay labs but no actual links so you just need to do "a search" for those companies to find their web sites

Also Action Mining does assays - they don't show it on their web site so you have to call & ask them

https://www.actionmining.com/
Kurt

Thank you!

 

[kurtak]

Most if not all production is in South Africa or Russia.
It is also found in Canada.

It is also found here in the U.S.A

I do not think it can be mined directly due to the low concentrations.

Yes they do mine for PGMs here in the U.S. ------------

https://www.mining-technology.com/projects/stillwater-and-east-boulder/?cf-view
The annual production from the Stillwater mine is approximately 380,000oz while the East Boulder operation produces 230,000oz per year (oz/y).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stillwater_Mining_Company
The J-M Reef is the only known significant source of platinum group metals inside the United States and one of the significant resources outside South Africa and Russia.

Also - they (mining companies) are looking at a LARGE copper/nickel (PGE) deposit in the Lake Superior area of Northwest Minnesota/Northeast Wisconsin (the Duluth Complex)

https://mn.water.usgs.gov/projects/tesnar/2011/Presentations/MillerDC Min_USGS workshop.pdf
Scroll down to page 10 & page 24

Mining companies are looking at this deposit not only because of the Cu/Ni as the primary minerals - but - also because the PGEs (or PGMs) are significant enough to go after as a secondary by product to the mining of the Cu/Ni

Also - here in Eastern Oregon where I live many of the locals - when you ask about some of the old diggings around here they will say "that's an old platinum mine" --- they are actually old chrome mines with PGMs as secondary by products

Kurt

 

[Alondro]

This always makes me wonder how much precious metal is in the Earth's core. These are super-dense un-reactive metals which would sink straight down as the planet differentiated. We're finding mostly what's left over from metallic asteroid impacts from the Late Heavy Bombardment, which refreshed the PM content in the crust and outer mantle. So, it begs the question of how much there is on the interior?

 

[Yggdrasil]

This always makes me wonder how much precious metal is in the Earth's core. These are super-dense un-reactive metals which would sink straight down as the planet differentiated. We're finding mostly what's left over from metallic asteroid impacts from the Late Heavy Bombardment, which refreshed the PM content in the crust and outer mantle. So, it begs the question of how much there is on the interior?

Well the plates have cirucalated a few times since that I believe.
So there are certainly some beeing transported back up too.
Recent research indicates there are maybe as much water in the inner layers of the earth as on the surface.
Water under those extreme pressures and temperatures will dissolve most anything.

 

[Alondro]

Well the plates have cirucalated a few times since that I believe.
So there are certainly some beeing transported back up too.
Recent research indicates there are maybe as much water in the inner layers of the earth as on the surface.
Water under those extreme pressures and temperatures will dissolve most anything.

Yes, but that's in the circulating layers of the mantle, and maybe the outer core. The inner core should be a solid hyper-critical metallic mass about 760 miles in diameter, and under immense pressure of many gigapascals and temps close to the surface of the Sun; incapable of circulation. The material there should be of the same composition it formed from eons ago.

It's strongly suspected that there's a large amount of radioactive heavy elements in the inner core, and that may be in part why it hasn't cooled down yet. But we cannot know for sure as the inner core is totally cut off from any sampling. The composition estimates are based on the seismic data, which show the inner core is solid, and tests upon various alloys and minerals to determine their properties under roughly similar conditions in the laboratory.

It's why I think a mission to drill into 4-Vesta would be so useful. It's a surviving protoplanet, with a huge crater that's blasted off its crust in one section, meaning a shorter distance to its core. Finding out the composition of its now cold core will give strong clues about Earth's true internal elemental composition.

The core may also be 'purifying' itself as it crystallizes, pushing out other elements in favor of mostly iron (current estimates are up to 10% nickel, with 2-3% other elements. Though this could vary if a significant fraction of heavier AND lighter elements existed there in combination, leading to a similar average core density). It's all just a best guess at this point.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Yes, but that's in the circulating layers of the mantle, and maybe the outer core. The inner core should be a solid hyper-critical metallic mass about 760 miles in diameter, and under immense pressure of many gigapascals and temps close to the surface of the Sun; incapable of circulation. The material there should be of the same composition it formed from eons ago.

It's strongly suspected that there's a large amount of radioactive heavy elements in the inner core, and that may be in part why it hasn't cooled down yet. But we cannot know for sure as the inner core is totally cut off from any sampling. The composition estimates are based on the seismic data, which show the inner core is solid, and tests upon various alloys and minerals to determine their properties under roughly similar conditions in the laboratory.

It's why I think a mission to drill into 4-Vesta would be so useful. It's a surviving protoplanet, with a huge crater that's blasted off its crust in one section, meaning a shorter distance to its core. Finding out the composition of its now cold core will give strong clues about Earth's true internal elemental composition.

The core may also be 'purifying' itself as it crystallizes, pushing out other elements in favor of mostly iron (current estimates are up to 10% nickel, with 2-3% other elements. Though this could vary if a significant fraction of heavier AND lighter elements existed there in combination, leading to a similar average core density). It's all just a best guess at this point.

There are surely some conundrums still to discover out in space.
We just need to press on to get out there.
And space mining will be necessary to achieve this, but not for use on planet Earth,
that will be too expensive for all but the most rare elements.
But if you compare the price for blasting material out there versus picking it up I think one can travel far to get it.

There are also some indication that there may be undiscovered elements much heavier than what we have found so far.
Some theoretical calculations/simulations indicate that elements from 164 and around there may be stable.
We will not know until we find it of course.

 

[minero74]

Interesting topic.
Palladium is quite difficult to find.
very rare to be found in it metal state.

 

[Alondro]

There are surely some conundrums still to discover out in space.
We just need to press on to get out there.
And space mining will be necessary to achieve this, but not for use on planet Earth,
that will be too expensive for all but the most rare elements.
But if you compare the price for blasting material out there versus picking it up I think one can travel far to get it.

There are also some indication that there may be undiscovered elements much heavier than what we have found so far.
Some theoretical calculations/simulations indicate that elements from 164 and around there may be stable.
We will not know until we find it of course.

If relatively stable transuranic elements exist naturally, they will have come from exploded neutron stars, and be exceedingly uncommon. The most favorable decay pathways will tend to result in the fragments of 'neutronium' or 'quarkium' reverting to the known elements.

Only a handful of neutron-rich isotopes are predicted to exist in the 'islands of stability', and these tend to lie outside the typical decay patterns experimentally determined.

Additionally, they're not likely to have any 'miraculous' properties at all. So far, all transuranic elements produced have chemical properties similar to the elemental groups they fall in with their electron shell configurations. And this is no surprise, as additional protons and neutrons do not suddenly make 'magic' happen.

They'll be curiosities, notable for their high atomic mass and of no real practical value.

 

[slsmp40]

Yes, but that's in the circulating layers of the mantle, and maybe the outer core. The inner core should be a solid hyper-critical metallic mass about 760 miles in diameter, and under immense pressure of many gigapascals and temps close to the surface of the Sun; incapable of circulation. The material there should be of the same composition it formed from eons ago.

It's strongly suspected that there's a large amount of radioactive heavy elements in the inner core, and that may be in part why it hasn't cooled down yet. But we cannot know for sure as the inner core is totally cut off from any sampling. The composition estimates are based on the seismic data, which show the inner core is solid, and tests upon various alloys and minerals to determine their properties under roughly similar conditions in the laboratory.

It's why I think a mission to drill into 4-Vesta would be so useful. It's a surviving protoplanet, with a huge crater that's blasted off its crust in one section, meaning a shorter distance to its core. Finding out the composition of its now cold core will give strong clues about Earth's true internal elemental composition.

The core may also be 'purifying' itself as it crystallizes, pushing out other elements in favor of mostly iron (current estimates are up to 10% nickel, with 2-3% other elements. Though this could vary if a significant fraction of heavier AND lighter elements existed there in combination, leading to a similar average core density). It's all just a best guess at this point.

It is interesting to note that we do have some direct measurements from the core of the planet. All of those decays produce neutrinos and we have gotten really good at detecting the little suckers. Thus we know that the earth’s internal heat comes from radioactive decay.
Gold being a siderophile it is actually concentrated in the iron core. Since we have the asteroid belt and it has the basic structure of a broken up rocky planet, and has showered us with many samples we have lots of indirect evidence of the planets entire composition on a quantitative scale. Directly we have gravitational measurements that are confirmative evidence.
So with confidence we can say that the core of the planet is about 1 ppm gold, or 1.6 quadrillion tons of the yellow metal. If we brought it up somehow we could gild the planet with a layer of gold 13-18”thick with the margin of error of today’s measurements. But remember that platinum is 6 times more prevalent than gold so we could really make a layer of that. Its just not as fun as gold.

 

[bfloyd4445]

Right you are. Lol. Can never get one passed you can I? Do I go back and change my post to "need help identifying rocks"? Now?

I don't know if I like it. Doesn't really sound interesting of grab anyone's attention that way. Then i will never get to find out who was the man under the mask on Scooby-Doo?! Man, i am going to cry myself asleep tonight.. again...;0

Joking aside though... I didn't have a way to assay it but also I was under the impression that it was already assayed before I got it based upon where it allegedly came from.

So, since I did get lucky and didn't end up killing or harming myself or others, glad we got that outta the way, I am still very curious about what it is, I will now post some pictures of it.

Honestly, I am not even sure it's considered even ore at this point since it looks like it's just metal crystals, maybe even just one type. So I don't think it would even fall into the category of rocks quite either.

I will let tView attachment 61213View attachment 61214

That looks like pitchblende! Don't touch it without checking out how hot it is .
https://www.nrc.gov/about-nrc/radiation/health-effects/measuring-radiation.html