need help with cell+hcl+cl

[jimmyreece]

I just finished a couple of batches with my gold cell. After filtering the black powders I mistakenlly added a rather large amount that hadnt been rinsed yet to the hcl+ cl solution. Having several filters going at the same time,and digesting them as they were being completed I must have gotten one of them confused.
How big of a problem is this ? kight now i have a concentrated 2 gal jar of AuCL+hcl+cl & sulfuric acid !
Im asuming what I see precipitating is the sulfuric. do I just filter and proceed ?

 

[dtectr]

In my humble opinion :
Unless you added a SIGNIFICANTLY larger ratio of powder with sulfuric, what you are seeing is likely lead sulfate, insoluble in HCl-Cl. Regardless of how you do it, you are bound to always get some lead depositing from the cathode, even if it is just an oxidized layer from the stored cathode. In fact, some, including butcher (I believe) add some sulfuric to the Au-Cl before filtering, for just that purpose.

A little lead goes a long way when it comes to causing problems. If it seems like quite a bit, that's ok, as lead sulfate gets quite fluffy (many times it actual dry volume) in solution.

If you're worried about it, after rinsing/filtering/rinsing/etc. set it aside to check later. I'd almost bet that its lead, not PMs.

BTW - Harold_V is the one that advised me on not being too concerned about leaving a little sulfuric in the solution, & I've had very good results.

 

[jimmyreece]

that makes sence now. with what you said and with what i see is going on here, i agree.
well good !...now the other thing i noticed is my AuCL has gone from golden color to a cider/tea color...........?
maybe that will change after i filter again.. thanks

 

[Harold_V]

If you guys will take another look at Hoke, you'll see that she recommends the addition of a few drops of sulfuric to every lot of gold chloride. It does no harm unless too much is added, and then it just makes filtration more difficult because it dissolves the filter paper. In all my years of refining, I never had a negative experience with sulfuric acid creating any issues with precipitation.

Plain and simple----anyone that processes gold recovered from ANY source that has lead included is missing the boat if they are not using a little sulfuric. Lead, amongst a few other elements, is death on the quality of gold. Traces make rolling and other processes border on the impossible, for the gold becomes brittle.

Harold

 

[exoticinfusion]

lead sulphate will settle with gold on bottom of beaker like fluffy stuff pour off liquid and re disolve with hcl/clorox 4/1 and water down as usaul 4to1 and you should notice lead on bottom off flask filter and drop you should be pretty clean gold

 

[jimmyreece]

thanks again guys.
you know that is a very important step in filtering with the use of the gold cell. im surprised that wasnt mentiioned in the video.
so the color i have has to do with lead maybe still in solution ? i already filtered the precipitated lead, i'll redisolve with hcl+cl 4 to 1 and filter again before i drop.
maybe its just because of the heavy concentration of gold in its contents ?

 

[patnor1011]

How much do you expect and what is an amount of solution?

 

[jimmyreece]

i deplated approx 30 lbs of gold plated jewelry. all of it was of an older make and a rather high quality. i ended up saturating my cell 3 times during the process. i dont have an answer as to what exactly i was expecting, but i would think it should be a reasonable amount 10-14 grams maybe.
the amount of solution was approx 1 1/2 gals

 

[jimmyreece]

Exocticinfusion advised me well about the lead precipitating with the gold. im assuming he was implying a precipitation after hcl+cl disolution.
but what i seen was the (lead?) precipitating out as the light fluffy stuff he was describing as soon as i disolved the black powders in the hcl+cl solution.
that is the lead , right? because i filtered that out.
what i dont understand is out of all of that deplating, the only thing i got back was the 1.5 grams i had put away from some other past project, that i added to the disolution when i disolved the black powders..........where did the rest of the gold go????????????

 

[Harold_V]

that is the lead , right?

Most likely silver (altough traces of lead may be included).

what i dont understand is out of all of that deplating, the only thing i got back was the 1.5 grams i had put away from some other past project, that i added to the disolution when i disolved the black powders..........where did the rest of the gold go????????????

That may be all there was. Gold plated jewelry is low in gold. So low in gold it almost doesn't pay to mess with the stuff. There may be exceptions, but I'm of the opinion that there's but a few millionths of depth of gold---just enough to color the pieces. GSP is likely much better versed on this subject.

Harold

 

[jimmyreece]

Thanks harold, i respect your opinion. And i believe your right. Boy, talk about learning the hard way !... And i read and read. Maybe i wasnt reading in the right areas.
But what ever the case may be, it was a lesson learned and knowledge gained. That there holds value in its self.
So it would be safe to assume that the plating in electronics is much thicker than jewelry ? But then one is talking much smaller pieces. One would think the trade off of differences would balance the two or close to it.
But i dont know. Thats why im here.
Thanks again

 

[Palladium]

So it would be safe to assume that the plating in electronics is much thicker than jewelry ? But then one is talking much smaller pieces. One would think the trade off of differences would balance the two or close to it.
But i dont know. Thats why im here.
Thanks again

Have you search all the info i have available in the links in my sig line below?

Maybe this one will help you understand a little better.

 

[jimmyreece]

Thank you Ralph. That was helpful.

 

[patnor1011]

With pins you have much higher mass to surface area of plating so yes, much bigger yield from pins. Another thing is that if you expect to have 10-15g then 1.5 gallon of solution is way too much. It is like boiling cup of rice in biggest pot you have in home. It was my problem when I started too. Too much of solution and then I was waiting ages for gold to precipitate and settle. I would try to dissolve 10-15g in no more than 200-300ml - even this might be too much.

 

[jimmyreece]

yes i see what your saying.
but i still havent given up on it. i know from all that deplating i did (30+ lbs) i know there is more to be recovered than just the 1.5 grams of precipitated powder that i added to it. that of which i recovered from some glassware i purchased at a good will.....its strange that the only gold i recovered was somthing that wasnt even a part of my main objective, the jewelry.
im thinking the majority of what is to be recovered must still be in solution like you said and the filters.
much of what was deplated was done so using walmart sulfuric, halfway through the process i switched to "roto rooter". a much better acid to work with, (i can see into the liquid) and many other reasons that make it much more favorable
anyways i consolidated all my acid and solution from my cell and will slowly evaperate & decant. the hcl+cl tested neg.
and yes, you are right. im using way to much solution