butcher said:
searcher1x,
Listen to Harold he is very wise and will Help to lead you to your gold.
At this point you are just wandering around in the dark clueless.
And you will just continue be stumbling around forever tripping yourself up on every process that you try, without a clue as to what problems your causing, or where all of the gold your trying to recover or refine is going, lost in some process, your stumbling through thinking you have a simple understanding of a very complex art and skill.
Put away the gold and chemicals, before you hurt yourself or someone else.
Begin your journey by educating yourself in the basic principles, and safety of what you plan on doing.
Put away the acids and chemicals, work on the education, that is the treasure map to the gold you seek.
Butcher, although I know you mean well by the comments you offer to all my posts, and perhaps you are entirely right in what you say, but (and I don't mean to offend you with this) from the way you word many of the comments you post to my threads I get the impression you are talking down to me, and to some degree that is offensive, whether you intend it that way or not.
I didn't join this forum to fight, offend or insult any member, nor did I join it to be insulted or offended by others. I joined this forum because it is the one place I found where good reliable and informative answers to many questions raised by someone who is deep in the learning process can be found. I fully understand that compared to you or harold or lazersteve or many, many of the other members I am viewed as a rank rookie and I can live with that. However we all have to start somewhere and very few of us get to start at the top.
Again, I know you mean well (at least I hope you do) with the comments you have made to many of my threads and I do appreciate the quick chemistry lesson you rendered to a different thread of mine, but I'm not as dumb as you take me for. Agreed, in no way, shape, form or fashion am I anywhere close to the level you are on and, quite frankly, I never will be nor do I want to be. I do have 15 years experience with certain chemicals, acid-basing, oxidation and a few other processes that I will not go into in this forum; this is neither the time or place for that. I understand the risk involved and some precautionary measures necessary for safe handling. Not to say I never will, but I have managed to stay alive and healthy through those years and I'm particularly proud of the fact that I have never blown me or my work area up in that time. I hope that I can continue that record.
Post after post you keep telling me how lost and foolish I am at this stage and to put down the chemicals and concentrate solely of learning. You may be right. Again, I know you have good intentions by this advise, but we all have different ways of learning. Some learn by watching, others by reading, others by trial and error, then there are those who learn by a combination of all 3 strategies. Indeed, I believe the vast majority of people learn by a combination of watching, reading and trial and error; I am no different.
I did not learn how to drive a car by just studying and reading a book. I learned by reading the necessary materials, observing others and getting behind the wheel and gaining experience. Was I the best driver on the roads first time I got behind the wheel? Of course not! Did I make mistakes when I first got behind the wheel? Sure I did. Would I ever have learned to drive if I never got behind the wheel. No, and anyone who believes anything different is just fooling thyself.
I consider myself to be an expert with computers and one of the more knowledgeable and experienced Linux users around. I never had a day of schooling for computers, no formal training what-so-ever. Matter of fact I had a few years on me when before I pounded my first keyboard. No one ever helped me, offered any advice or training. I got to the level I am at by, reading everything I could get my hands on; listening to the experiences of others; and more-so by pounding keys! Trial and error, and I made plenty of mistakes and errors along the way, but learn I did. When it comes to the ever evolving technology that surrounds the computer world I learn something new every day. Like yourself and the burning desire you have when it comes to chemistry, that desire to fully understand and absorb everything possible about chemistry and the tools of that trade, that's how I feel about computers and the tools of that trade. You definitely realized your goal and from what I have observed of you, are at or near the top of the ladder. You achieved this dream because that was something you wanted more than anything else and because you never quit in your journey to the top. I take my hat off too you!
The point I am trying to make is you don't know how to take a care apart to drive one, you don;t even know how to change the oil. There are others who can do that for you. You don't have to know how to program a computer or work on one in order to use one. You don't have to know anything about a computer other than how to turn it on and off to set down in front of a keyboard and start pounding keys and accomplish certain tasks. Fact is Microsoft does not want you to know anything about computers, they what users to sat "user dumb". That leads to increased profits on their part, but that discussion is best held in a different forum and not here.
The point I am trying to make Is you don't have to know or understand molecular structure or the relative interaction of how to substances react when combined under certain circumstances in order yo learn how to accomplish certain desired tasks that involve using chemicals to receive a desired end goal. You don't have to know how to mathematically figure the weight in mole of two or more chemicals to properly use those chemicals to achieve a desired end result. There are others who can do that for you are more than willing to make that information available to the public.
I have no need or desire to master the art of chemistry, nor is that an absolute to reach my goal. I intend to familiarize myself with the tools, materials and procedures required to perform certain recovery and refining processes. I believe I can reach this goal by, first and foremost, reading and learning from a variety of sources; by asking questions, keeping an open mind and learning from the experience of others; by application of what I read and the experiences and advice of others; and last, but not least, by trial and error, this is the only way, IMHO that anyone can truly learn something new, at least it's the only way I can learn. Will I screw up along the way? Will I make mistakes? Will I waste money, precious resources and chemicals while walking along this path? You better believe it!
But the most important question of all; will I achieve my goal of learning how to reclaim and refine certain metals? I can guarantee you 100% that I will reach that goal.
I know this has been a rather "long-winded" post and even though you have criticized me before on "long-winded" posts, I have read many of your posts and you, sir, are guilty of the same act and can get a little "long-winded" yourself at times. All that shows is that you, like myself, want to make sure what you have to say is perfectly clear and understood. For the length of my post, I apologize.
Let me close by saying that nothing I have written above was intended to insult, offend or enrage any of the members of this forum. That was not the desired effect and if someone was insulted or offended then please accept my humble apologizes. Just please understand I neither have the time or desire to become a master of chemistry, that's not my goal. I just want to learn how to recover and refining, the tools needed for this and the basic, underling principles surrounding these processes. If making these statements result in some who turn their heads and refuse to help or offer me any advice along my journey then I am truly sorry you feel that way, but with or without that help I will get to the end of the path.
