Non-Chemical new to this looking for tips

[colt45gto]

Hi all and happy new year.

This year I plan to be a prospector and refine my own gold.
I want to start with some scrap 9ct 375. Not much around 100g.
I have a 1kg furnace which is ample. I have nitric acid 75% and hcl 35% about to be ordered.
Would it be easier just to buy pre mixed AR or mix my own?
Also at what point is urea added or is this another youtube myth, also smb is food preservative I believe.

I want to try a small amount 20g of gold and see what the results are but I'm aware nothing is as simple as youtube vids depict .

So I thought I best ask you guys before I kill myself. Or waste my gold.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

You don't want to premix AR. As soon as you combine the acids, they begin to gas off and the mixture loses strength. The best process is to add the amount of HCl needed, then add the HNO₃ in small increments to avoid adding too much.

Save the urea for your garden.

I've not heard of SMB being used as a food preservative, but it is used to sanitize beer and wine making equipment. It's also sold as a stump remover.

While there are some good youtube videos, many will get you in trouble.

Settle in and start studying here. I always suggest new members start in the Tips for Navigating and Posting on the Forum thread. Be sure to follow all the links. Then read through the threads in the Library section of the forum. That will get you off to a good start.

Dave

 

[Grelko]

Hi all and happy new year.

This year I plan to be a prospector and refine my own gold.
I want to start with some scrap 9ct 375. Not much around 100g.
I have a 1kg furnace which is ample. I have nitric acid 75% and hcl 35% about to be ordered.
Would it be easier just to buy pre mixed AR or mix my own?
Also at what point is urea added or is this another youtube myth, also smb is food preservative I believe.

I want to try a small amount 20g of gold and see what the results are but I'm aware nothing is as simple as youtube vids depict .

So I thought I best ask you guys before I kill myself. Or waste my gold.

Hello colt, welcome to the forum,

Normally people on this forum don't use Urea. There are other ways that are easier to use for recovering gold etc. Most of the Youtube videos have some information, but skip certain parts, or don't explain a certain process completely.
This site has ALOT more information for you to be able to recover and refine the different types of precious metals safely, so that you don't accidently hurt yourself, or others.

This link will take you to a section, to start learning about the safety and different processes you need to recover these metals. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=21374 There is a book by C.M. Hokes, that has the basics for recovering and refining at the bottom of the first post by the member named FrugalRefiner. It is an easy book to read and Hokes explains most things in great detail. This book will help you out alot.

If you have questions about the different processes that are used, just ask, but you will get a better response from the members, if you read Hokes first, so that you can explain the problem you are having a bit better. Just read and learn all you can, because there is alot of information about this.

 

[mls26cwru]

First.... Set the gold, acids, and 'food preservative' aside on a shelf somewhere safe... It wont go anywhere.

Second,find copies of:
C.W. Ammen's "Recovery and Refining of Precious Metals"
or (but preferibly both)
C.M Hoke's "Refining Precious Metal Wastes"

Third, read them.

Refining is not easy and you need to spend some time to learn and educate yourself on the subject before you attempt to do anything. These books will give you a good foundation to start from. They will get you familiar with the materials, methods, reactions, AND dangers of this field.

 

[colt45gto]

First.... Set the gold, acids, and 'food preservative' aside on a shelf somewhere safe... It wont go anywhere.

Second,find copies of:
C.W. Ammen's "Recovery and Refining of Precious Metals"
or (but preferibly both)
C.M Hoke's "Refining Precious Metal Wastes"

Third, read them.

Refining is not easy and you need to spend some time to learn and educate yourself on the subject before you attempt to do anything. These books will give you a good foundation to start from. They will get you familiar with the materials, methods, reactions, AND dangers of this field.

Cheers buddy I will. Like I said I didn't order chemicals yet I need to learn and understand it before I leap into it.

 

[Grelko]

C.W. Ammen's "Recovery and Refining of Precious Metals"

I haven't read, or even heard of this book until now. "I don't know how I missed it"

I did a search on the forum, and there is a thread, http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=11096 that talks about the copyright for it, but on the last page, apparently "Ammen's daughter" posted something about it, and two posts below that, someone else posted a link, where you can download 2 of the older books. The posts at the begining of that thread had a PDF file, but it was deleted by Harold back in 2011, because of the copyright back then.

Edit - Hopefully everything has been sorted out, and these are legal links for these books. If not, someone should delete the link again.

 

[colt45gto]

Thank you guys,

I have the book now so I will read it with vigor.

I was never really safety conscious through my working life but this I will take very seriously.

I will be buying scrap 375 and refining then selling on so it has to be right, I can not afford to make any mistakes so this is why I joined. I knew there was more to it than the youtube videos show. Its not easy but once you have the correct formula and have completed a couple of good batches it becomes second nature, but one can not be complacent with such strong acids and fumes.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I did a search on the forum, and there is a thread, http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=11096 that talks about the copyright for it, but on the last page, apparently "Ammen's daughter" posted something about it, and two posts below that, someone else posted a link, where you can download 2 of the older books. The posts at the begining of that thread had a PDF file, but it was deleted by Harold back in 2011, because of the copyright back then.

Edit - Hopefully everything has been sorted out, and these are legal links for these books. If not, someone should delete the link again.

Thanks Grelko. I've deleted the post.

Dave

 

[Anonymous]

Welcome Dave

There's a few Brits on here, and some of us are even nice guys 8) 8)

Jon

 

[Geo]

Sodium metabisulfite is a food preservative. It was used widely not so long ago in most homes and is still used today in most packaged fried foods like potato chips. It is used when canning or preserving foods that contained meat and/or meat fat. Soups, stews and canned meat will have it as a preservative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_metabisulfite

 

[colt45gto]

gold used to be purified by smelting and still is to a certain degree i think, is it easier this way or is there a lot of waste? i understand the end product isn't the same as chemical or electro but is it actually safer and to what degree of purity is achievable and what chemical is used throughout the process?

how does one pass a gas through a crucible without melting the tube?

i have been reading Hokes book or started to, i just completed the intro (does and don't s).

 

[butcher]

smelting will not purify gold. it can be used to recover gold, and to some degree separate gold from the gangue material, the non wanted material of the ore base metals which can be oxidized with flux or in the melt, and salts of acids or alkali portion of the ore like sulfides...
Gold recovered by smelting will still need refining.

Depending on the source of the gold, what metals or nonmetals the original gold contained, the flux used, and several other factors would depend on what the gold from smelting would contain, or the percentage of gold to other metals and even non metals in the final product.

Tubes can be made from refractory materials, graphite tubes could be used , although I have never heard of them being used, (I am not sure about glass type material like quartz, maybe Lou or someone else knows if it can be used).

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Clay.

Dave

 

[colt45gto]

smelting will not purify gold. it can be used to recover gold, and to some degree separate gold from the gangue material, the non wanted material of the ore base metals which can be oxidized with flux or in the melt, and salts of acids or alkali portion of the ore like sulfides...
Gold recovered by smelting will still need refining.

Depending on the source of the gold, what metals or nonmetals the original gold contained, the flux used, and several other factors would depend on what the gold from smelting would contain, or the percentage of gold to other metals and even non metals in the final product.

Tubes can be made from refractory materials, graphite tubes could be used , although I have never heard of them being used, (I am not sure about glass type material like quartz, maybe Lou or someone else knows if it can be used).

Thank You. the gold in question isn't pins or fingers its old 9ct jewellery so its to dismiss whatever other alloys are mixed with that to down carat it.

 

[colt45gto]

sorry even when i have read the book, i will still have 100's of questions to be sure i get the process right before i even start. i am sure you guys would be happy with this so you can see a nice success story from all your hours of help and education.

 

[UncleBenBen]

i am sure you guys would be happy with this so you can see a nice success story from all your hours of help and education.

True. But you may be pleasantly surprised that most of the happiness will be yours. That will come from sense of accomplishment that will come from the countless hours you will spend educating yourself. That's where the true value really lies!


Edit for clarity.

 

[Geo]

9K can be leached directly in nitric acid and water 50/50. It will take a little longer than inquarted 6K but it will work. Place the 9K scrap in a beaker and add appropriate amount of nitric acid. An excess will not hurt the process but is considered a waste of chemicals. Be sure to use a beaker that can hold the material and nitric acid and still only be around half capacity. Cover the beaker and heat to below boiling. Observe for reaction bubbles. Let the reaction progress until no more bubbles are observed. Allow to cool and decant the solution into a clean beaker. This solution will contain metals you will want to recover so do not discard. The remaining material should be high gold content and may not need any further refining depending on what you want to achieve. Rinse the material with water by allowing the material to settle and decant the rinse. Repeat until the water stays clear.

 

[colt45gto]

9K can be leached directly in nitric acid and water 50/50. It will take a little longer than inquarted 6K but it will work. Place the 9K scrap in a beaker and add appropriate amount of nitric acid. An excess will not hurt the process but is considered a waste of chemicals. Be sure to use a beaker that can hold the material and nitric acid and still only be around half capacity. Cover the beaker and heat to below boiling. Observe for reaction bubbles. Let the reaction progress until no more bubbles are observed. Allow to cool and decant the solution into a clean beaker. This solution will contain metals you will want to recover so do not discard. The remaining material should be high gold content and may not need any further refining depending on what you want to achieve. Rinse the material with water by allowing the material to settle and decant the rinse. Repeat until the water stays clear.

wow thanks Geo.

i have just had a conversation with Jon and he spoke highly of you. i will try this thank you very much