Newbie with question(s)

[Madraykin]

Hey nick, just wanting to make sure I am understanding you correctly.

"I know the urge to see some of your own refined gold but try to refrain from running small amounts when you have big quantities to recover and refine, run small trials to see if you are stripping all the gold successfully and if so keep the cell running"

That confuses me somewhat and I just want to make sure I'm on the same wavelength as you. You want me to refrain from running small quantities, but also run small trials. And I'm also very unclear by your references to HCL. Thank you so much for responding, but I gotta know, what part of this thread were you responding to. I'm asking with deepest humility and sincerity.

As an addendum to my last post, it has been 24 hours, basically, since I reverse plated. I added a heretofore unencountered step in this forum of pouring of my gold-ladened sulfuric acid from its original casserole dish into a large glass jar (24 hours ago). I am not seeing any settlement nor separation at all.

 

[maynman1751]

Hey nick, just wanting to make sure I am understanding you correctly.

"I know the urge to see some of your own refined gold but try to refrain from running small amounts when you have big quantities to recover and refine, run small trials to see if you are stripping all the gold successfully and if so keep the cell running"

That confuses me somewhat and I just want to make sure I'm on the same wavelength as you. You want me to refrain from running small quantities, but also run small trials. And I'm also very unclear by your references to HCL. Thank you so much for responding, but I gotta know, what part of this thread were you responding to. I'm asking with deepest humility and sincerity.

As an addendum to my last post, it has been 24 hours, basically, since I reverse plated. I added a heretofore unencountered step in this forum of pouring of my gold-ladened sulfuric acid from its original casserole dish into a large glass jar (24 hours ago). I am not seeing any settlement nor separation at all.

I think what Nick is trying to say is run small trials to make sure that your cell is stripping properly, but after you are satisfied that it is running correctly, run the cell continuously with larger amounts. Be careful not to overheat the cell during this process. If the cell temp reaches 100-110F, let it cool back down.
The reference to HCl is after you have recovered the gold from the cell. Remember the cell is recovery....the next step is refining.
As far as emptying your cell, you have to filter the contents through a fiberglass plug filter to filter out the gold residue. You can't just expect it to settle out. What you can do is wait for a couple days and try to decant most of the liquid part and filter the rest. It takes a lonngggg time for it to settle! You probably haven't run enough material yet to even see any gold. It takes a considerable amount of these types of materials to get much back. If this isn't right, I'm sure someone here will correct me.

 

[Madraykin]

I have a good feeling that it is stripping properly. From my observations, parts went in with gold and, when removed, parts did not have gold. I will continue to monitor the temps, but from what I saw yesterday, it did not produce enough of a reaction to raise the temps. I'm fairly certain this was from such a tiny amount of gold per bundle of parts submerged at any one time. Yet my clear sulfuric acid did eventually get blackish if only very gradually.

As for the filtering part, still trying to wrap my head around that. Won't I leave plenty of gold in the fiberglass? I do have some of that kaolin wool and I've heard that is ideal for this filtering process. I know, I know. Use the search feature. And I will.

 

[Madraykin]

nickvc,

I read back over your post and it makes sense now. I must have experienced some disconnect earlier with your wording. What can I say? It's been one of those days.

 

[maynman1751]

Won't I leave plenty of gold in the fiberglass?

What I did was put the wad of fiberglass in HCl and start adding small amounts of bleach and dissolve the gold right out of the filter material. Then remove the filter material and rinse it well into the HCl/Cl with the dissolved gold. Heat the solution to remove excess Cl, filter through a couple coffee filters, let it cool and drop the gold. It will be very dirty and need a good washing regimen and re-refined.

 

[nickvc]

Sorry I tried to reply last night but couldn't get a signal to reply but Maynman did an excellent job on deciphering my meaning and I'm glad to see you now understand it too.
Because the gold content is low you will need to process a considerable amount to get a decent amount of gold and the more you do if you are sure your stripping all the gold off the better the evaluation of the material about yield.
Make sure that when your not running your cell to keep it well covered as concentrated sulphuric is very water hungry, it will absorb water from the atmosphere easily, and if the concentration drops you will start removing large quantities of base metals. If you think the acid may be losing concentration put it on to a heater and evaporate the water back out carefully, heed the warning about sulphuric been water hungry your skin/ body is mainly water!
When you have a decent amount of sludge in your cell allow it to settle, it takes time as the acid is very viscous, decant carefully wearing gloves/ gauntlets and then you have two choices, you can then put some fibre glass into a funnel and pour the sludge and acid through that to catch the particles or you can slowly, very carefully add the acid to a large volume of water to reduce the concentration and then filter it, if you don't dilute the acid it will destroy the filter.
Once you have either the glass plug or filter, rinse with water in situ first, you can transfer it to a beaker and dissolve the values using either AR or hydrochloric and bleach. Make sure you fully understand the processes before starting them and be aware of any safety issues in all processes you intend to follow.

 

[Madraykin]

Both you and Maynman did an excellent job of explaining. Thanks for that!

At this point, since I don't have the cell permanently set up (I was just well enough equipped to perform the stripping part), I was forced to pour the 700 ml of sulfuric acid, along with stripped gold and unknown contaminants, into a large jar with a tight lid to let settle. Upon checking this morning, I did notice a slight degree of transparency at the upper end of the solution, which tells me it is beginning to settle some.

My plan is to enhance the sulfuric cell in such a way as to make it more turn key, that is to say to make it easier to work with, more stationary, simpler to decant, and so on. What I did so far, at least in my mind, is a rough draft of a rough draft of a rough draft. I will eventually get to the point of measuring everything after the procedure is standardized.

I'm hoping to recover most of the 98% sulfuric acid or as much as possible (naive on my part?). As such, it seems the kaolin plug in the funnel is the way to go. I'd like to avoid having to heat the acid to remove water where possible or be able to do so in such a way that doesn't cause me to tremble in fear each and every time. I'll keep that option open for now since I'm really not all that far along. Much more reading to do. I have Hoke's book burned to a CD and I'm making a stop by Staples to have it printed out to take with me everywhere.

I have to admit, though, that what I have accomplished thus far is rather intriguing and encouraging. It's like when I started making lye soap.

 

[scrappile]

Just a passing thought,

and unknown contaminants, into a large jar with a tight lid to let settle,

possible pressure could cause failure , also location if 700 ml of sulfuric acid does spill, some things to think about when you have to leave things unattended,

the printed Hoke's is good for adding notes in the margin,


8)

 

[Madraykin]

Rushing to loosen lid!!!

 

[Madraykin]

Thanks scrappile! Also placed jar in a sturdy plastic container. When I loosened the jar lid, there was a tiny puff, but just in case...

 

[maynman1751]

Good points scrappile! Leave the lid slightly loose to allow pressure to release and keep the jar in a catch container in case of failure. You can't be TOO CAREFUL with these acids. Always safety first!

 

[scrappile]

Thanks scrappile! Also placed jar in a sturdy plastic container. When I loosened the jar lid, there was a tiny puff, but just in case...

Your welcome, 8)

 

[scrappile]

Good points scrappile! Leave the lid slightly loose to allow pressure to release and keep the jar in a catch container in case of failure. You can't be TOO CAREFUL with these acids. Always safety first!

Thanks, was watching that over in Confuesd about drop, and a few others that have gone astray, from a comment taken wrong ---


Saftey First is the Golden Rule,...

 

[Madraykin]

Tomorrow I plan on straining my gold-laden sulfuric acid through a funnel with a kaolin wool plug. I would totally be doing this today, but I have a 12 hour shift facing me in a couple hours, so there's that. One thing that concerns me is from a process of rinsing the kaolin wool plug in situ. After I pour the acid through the funnel into a large glass pickle jar that I have scrupulously clean and dried and all of the gold (we hope) is now tied up in the wool with the sulfuric acid (somewhat clearer than before) resting securely in the jar below, do I rinse the plug in the filter into the same jar with water? I know that sounds silly, but I did not see where it was clarified and I may be misunderstanding the term "in situ". Also I am assuming that the rinse material is, in fact, H2O. I promise that I'm reading Hoke, but as I'm reading very carefully, I haven't gotten to that chapter just yet. Skip ahead, you say? If need be, but somewhere in my little nugget of a brain I formed this image of me rinsing with water through the funnel with the plug into concentrated sulfuric acid that just went through and, well, not really KABOOM, but more like shatter, shatter, splash, splash, scream, and then a life of grotesque disfigurement. Ah, the gift of foresight. Just looking to clear up the finer details and provide my readers with yet another baby step on this long and arduous journey.

Thanks to all that have gotten me this far! Oh, and by the way, I've been meaning to ask this for some time now... Any refiners living presently in the state of North Carolina?

 

[maynman1751]

Yes, rinse with water but I wouldn't rinse into my 'good' acid. Rinse the filter into a separate container. You DO NOT want to dilute your cell acid with water. If you really wanted to reclaim your diluted rinse, you can evaporate it down to re-concentrate it. I don't feel that there is enough loss to warrant this. Just add fresh acid to your cell to adjust level. Once the filter is rinsed you can put filter in HCl-Cl to dissolve out the gold. Once dissolved carefully remove filter and rinse well into same container as gold. Heat to steaming (don't boil) and let cool. This will remove excess chlorine. Then drop with precipitant of choice. Don't expect too much drop from a small amount of material from cell. If you still don't understand....ask!

You do know not to handle the filter without hand protection. Just saying!

 

[nickvc]

The cell isn't in Hoke but to clarify, remove your filter with the plug in, pour your concentrated sulphuric back into its container, put filter with plug in back in place and rinse with water, this saves you from having to heat your sulphuric to concentrate it again.

 

[Madraykin]

That is clarification aplenty. I will proceed accordingly with proper precautions as advised later today.

Now I have a real (maybe) challenge for you guys.

I just obtained a bag full of gold "dust" that has been ablated from gold-plated parts using a class 4 YAG laser. This stuff is completely black fine particle dust, but I know for certain that it is mostly gold. It was ablated from parts comprised of nickel-plated copper plated with gold. I'm fairly certain this material has trace amounts of nickel and copper from the ablation. From what I've learned thus far, it would be best to use nitric acid to burn off the nickel and copper and then drop with SMB. Wait. I'm wanting to make certain lead isn't an issue, so H2SO4 at some point?

 

[Madraykin]

I just filtered my gold-containing sulfuric acid through a kaolin plug. I was surprised at how well this worked, meaning my sulfuric acid came through amazingly clean and totally reusable. At this moment the funnel with the kaolin plug is being rinsed into a clean jar with tap water.

Before I poured off the acid with the gold into the funnel, I did notice a layer on the bottom of the jar of the black gold which had settled. The rest of the sulfuric acid was still rather dark and I'm wondering if any of that was from the lead from the cell process or maybe some of the nickel or copper.

I'm going to perform a search on the ratio of HCL to ClL needed to dissolve the gold in the kaolin plug.

 

[martyn111]

From what I've learned thus far, it would be best to use nitric acid to burn off the nickel and copper and then drop with SMB.

If you did as you say above you wouldn't have any gold in solution to drop with SMB. Gold will not dissolve in Nitric acid alone, therefore the resulting powders from your Nitric bath would be your gold content which you could then process either by AR or hcl / chlorax.
Look at the process you outlined as a recovery process, removing base metals,and the AR or hcl / chlorax as the refining process when you actually dissolve the gold.

I'm going to perform a search on the ratio of HCL to ClL needed to dissolve the gold in the kaolin plug.

You can cover the powders you intend to dissolve with hcl and then add your chlorax in small increments until all the powder has dissoloved, much the same as adding the Nitric acid in AR, this way you don't add a large excess of oxidiser which you will need to dispel before you can precipitate your gold.

 

[Madraykin]

Martyn, Yes, my goof. I'll seem a little more sensible about this once I've actually performed the steps beyond what's been done thus far.. Been combing through here reading up on the AP and the HCL-CL methods. I'd be curious to know if anyone uses either a sep funnel or a burette to add in their oxidizer drop by drop.