Nickel/copper in gold?

[futurama140]

Hi everyone, I'm new to recovering/refining gold. I've been reading as much as I can and lurking here, but the sheer amount of info here is daunting and I don't know exactly what to look for.
So here is my problem:
On my most recent batch of partially plated non-ferrous pins (I assume the BM inside is nickel) I believe I may have been hasty and pulled the foils from the CuCl2 a day or two early, leaving small amounts of BM in the center of some of the foils. I tried melting it down but the chunk was way too big for my ghetto setup (2100o fire brick and cheap butane bernzomatic from home depot) so after over an hour the chunk had not melted down.

Eventually, i managed to heat the chunk and clip it into smaller pieces, and after like 40 minutes on each small piece they will melt. Now the problem is the ridiculously long melt time on the little blobs with BMs in them now. If i manage to heat the blobs long enough, the swirling blob has little spikes (i assume of BMs) sticking out.

Is there any way i can easily recover my 20k gold? the small amount of BMs in the middle of the blobs obviously wont be removed by CuCl2.

I thought about just heating it until the stuff I dont want just floats to the top, then cool it and throw it into the CuCl2 until those parts dissolve, then repeat that process until the gold is clean. but that could take weeks and LOTS of propane.

I appreciate any help. And I appologize if this issue has been covered elsewhere.

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

Not to nit pick... But, AP is copper (II) chloride, or CuCl2.

And why did you not refine the gold? Seems as if you just partially recovered it.

Much to learn, grasshopper.

Download hoke, take the guided tour, read the general reaction list. The more you study, the less gold you'll lose (i promise).

 

[futurama140]

I havent been refining the gold because in the past i have ended up with 20k when i go to sell the stuff without refining. I cant afford any more equipment or materials. I just need a practical solution for getting the small amount of crap out of the mixture before monday. I need to pay rent. I'm not doing this for art or a hobby or whatever. I've been doing this for a couple months and understand the the basics, but i have no idea what to do when i run into these kind of mistakes.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

futurama, welcome to the forum. It sounds like you're suffering from a common problem of starting to process things before you fully understand the process.

As Topher has mentioned, the HCl and hydrogen peroxide process is commonly referred to AP, copper(II) chloride, or CuCl₂. That may seem very minor, but under different circumstances, errors in chemical formulas can be dangerous.

I've never seen pins that were nickel plated with gold, but many pins are a copper based metal like brass, plated with nickel, then plated with gold. The nickel is there to keep the gold from migrating into the brass. You'll read more about it as you study the forum.

You mentioned both butane and propane in your post. You'll really struggle to melt most metals with butane, but propane does just fine with the right set up. The problem many members have run into is heat loss from their melting dish while they're trying to melt. You probably just need some insulation around your dish to minimize the heat loss. Many use ceramic wool, but there are other materials that will also work.

Since you've now melted your gold together with your base metals, you'll probably need to dissolve them entirely, then precipitate your gold from a somewhat dirty solution.

Last, please keep your language at a G level here. We strive to keep our content at the highest level, suitable for readers of all ages. I edited your post to keep it clean. If you haven't read it yet, take a read through the Tips for Navigating and Posting on the Forum thread. It will help get you off to a good start.

Dave

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

Thats my ghetto fabulous corning hot box.
Just a few pieces of corning fit together, with some awesome insulation i bought from TnDavid (traded actually)...but it works great.. Melt time went down from 7-10 minutes to like 3.

To make good money, one must spend money. Spending time reading the forum, you will find the cheap work arounds that work well.

I still think you would be much better served refining your product.
You already have HCl, 7$ for stump remover (KNO3), and 6 for precipitant will get you a much better % return...or it should at least.

 

[futurama140]

My apologies on the language. SO i will have to AR and precipitate the gold? I believe the cuppelation process is designed to remove that same impurity, right? And I am working with very small amounts of material, around a quarter ounce. I have no scale and cannot afford one to accurately weigh what I have. Is there no way to make the gold salable without AR? I understand the hcl/bleach and SMB to refine, but it seems unnecessary for me who only cares about having a blob of gold to sell.

I've read/watched/heard TONS of info, but that's only perfect on an academic level, in reality i run into many more issues, some of which i just cant seem to discern the answer from the sentences given. This may just be a fault in my comprehension, but also likely is the information i've come across is just incomplete.

Isn't it possible to just melt the gold and use a graphite rod or something to just slag off the junk on top that i dont want?

 

[anachronism]

Topher what in heaven's name is that contraption?

Dude get a grip. That's so Heath Robinson it's unreal.

Sorry but that's just terribad mate.

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

Haha. Pshhhh, A, you know you love it!
:lol:
I work with what i have, not wanting to frivolously spend money, especially if I can have a good work around from what I already possess. And for melting small bits of gold, it helps immensely.

Futurama140, cuppelation is a means of removing lead. It would not work for you.

You DO need a scale though, when 1 gram is around $43, I know I wouldn't trust whomever is buying my stuff on their scale alone..
Stay away from youtube, it will get you hurt. Or broke. Possibly both. There are good videos by some members here that are sreetips, geo, palladium, lazersteve.

HCl + bleach works well on foils, but it sounds like with the abundance of base metals you have, it would be more trouble than anything. I still recommend poorman ar, then denoxx, then precipitate with smb or copperas (cement on copper if very dirty solution), then wash the gold properly, THEN melt. You should easily get 90%++ of spot. You just have to find the right buyer.

 

[anachronism]

Well I was so flustered by that contraption that I went out grabbed a few items (from scratch) and built something. Done in the time between these posts too. If you want confirmation then feel free to ask Patnor as I was on the phone with him at the time.

Ten standard bricks.
1 small piece of plasterboard - you call it gyproc or something similar in the US?
1 Stanley knife


You can use the fireproof board if you like as it last longer but the insulation from the plasterboard even after the card burns off is great. You're melting outside too so fumes are not a factor.

Total cost- around $6, time 10 minutes. It's real backyard stuff but it does the job and I hope it helps.

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

Im glad to have inspired you! Haha :mrgreen:

You thing my pyroceram hotbox is bad... You should have seen my old one

 

[anachronism]

Try this- it'll work better than that POS mate

 

[futurama140]

this is what i'm working with. the chunk of cinderblock on top gets moved. the rest are firebricks.

 

[futurama140]

Not to nit pick... But, AP is copper (II) chloride, or CuCl2.

And why did you not refine the gold? Seems as if you just partially recovered it.

Much to learn, grasshopper.

Download hoke, take the guided tour, read the general reaction list. The more you study, the less gold you'll lose (i promise).

Download hoke?

hoke
hōk/
verbNorth Americaninformal
verb: hoke; 3rd person present: hokes; past tense: hoked; past participle: hoked; gerund or present participle: hoking

(of an actor) act (a part) in an insincere, sentimental, or melodramatic manner.
"just try it straight—don't hoke it up"

 

[FrugalRefiner]

The book in my signature line at the bottom of my post. It was written by C.M. Hoke.

Dave

 

[Barren Realms 007]

this is what i'm working with. the chunk of cinderblock on top gets moved. the rest are firebricks.

See you fixed most of your problem by posting a single picture of your setup.

The fire bricks are acting like a heat sink and absorbing most of the heat you are applying to your dish. Get you a small piece of sheetrock like in anachronism's picture that is cut up and put that between your dish and the fire brick. Take your butane torch and receipt back to Home Depot and see if they will give you your money back and buy you a MAPP gas torch to melt your gold with.

 

[futurama140]

i'm melting straight on the fire brick. i cannot afford a crucible or a new torch. my income is litterally ZERO. every penny i have comes from scrapping. Why was this setup working before, and is not working now? up until this batch, i have never had a problem melting the gold down. is it the BM in my gold making it essentially unable to melt? I dont care what karat the gold is, as long as i can sell it. I dont know if it can be sold like it is to the shop.

Also, I've had my torch for a couple months now, it was the only one i can afford. if i could just get this gold to a salable point, i could buy all the new junk everyone seems to want me to buy, but until i can sell the gold i already have, telling me to buy new stuff is completely moot and pointless. I'm not 100% ignorant or i could not have produced the half ounce of 20k gold i sold last month to pay my bills, but each new batch presents new problems that had not occured before.

the gist of what im being told is that there is no way at all to recover ANY gold to sell from what i have here, that i have just a lump of garbage unless i buy lots more crap. I don't accept that. i'm looking for some form of answer WITHIN the parameters that I issued. Sure i can beat a video game with cheat codes or an upgraded controller any day, but how do i do it with what i HAVE.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

0928161851a.jpg

Thats my ghetto fabulous corning hot box.
Just a few pieces of corning fit together, with some awesome insulation i bought from TnDavid (traded actually)...but it works great.. Melt time went down from 7-10 minutes to like 3.

To make good money, one must spend money. Spending time reading the forum, you will find the cheap work arounds that work well.

I still think you would be much better served refining your product.
You already have HCl, 7$ for stump remover (KNO3), and 6 for precipitant will get you a much better % return...or it should at least.

No offense but that is a lot of wasted material. A simple 4" to 6" square piece on top of a brick is all you need to accomplish the job.

3 minute melt time. Hmm have you paid attention to how much gold you are blowing off the top of your powder in that short length of time?

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

That isnt counting the time i preheat the dish.
I usually heat the dish good and hot, then put in the gold.
Slowly play the flame over the powder until it begins to sinter together. Then bring it closer and closer once its melting.

I may have exaggerated the 3 minute time. But, I know it has cut the melt time down in half.

 

[anachronism]

i'm melting straight on the fire brick. i cannot afford a crucible or a new torch. my income is litterally ZERO. every penny i have comes from scrapping. Why was this setup working before, and is not working now? up until this batch, i have never had a problem melting the gold down. is it the BM in my gold making it essentially unable to melt?

I'm sorry but in that case stop.

If you can't afford a couple of bucks for a cheap crucible then wait until you can and do it properly or not at all. It's ridiculous to try and even do this if you're not going to have some kind of budget to do it right. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but we're not talking about large budgets - my idea above costs virtually nothing, and the reduction in losses would pay for itself straight away.

Go without lunch for one one day and you're sorted. If you're not that committed then this isn't for you.

 

[futurama140]

Go without lunch for one one day and you're sorted. If you're not that committed then this isn't for you.

that implies i have money for food. I havent eaten today. or yesterday. you rich people with your 20 dollars in your pocket...

so why did my product made last month work? the money i made last month for the rent calls you a liar for saying i have to buy more crap to do this.