Not sure how gold precipitate looks like...

[hfywc]

It can take on many colors. 8)



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0boLmoSGE[/youtube]

the precipitate i see is similar to the second photo. now on the video, mine doesn't behave like that...when you swirl the container the precipitate easily mixed with the liquid to form dark cloud. too light to be gold dust...

also, is it normal for the smb to turn back to crystal form if the solution is undisturbed for some time or is it something else like gold salt?

thank you for all your troubles...

 

[jimdoc]

Don't think that it is not gold because it is too light,or looks like chocolate milk or coffee.When you melt that light brown or tan powder it melts into gold.You will have to be careful with the torch so you don't blow your gold powder out of the melting dish.Yours may appear a little different because of how much you have processed, it may be "watered down"more than the other pictures,and also how clean it is.

You can always re-refine it if it isn't pure enough first time around.So if you melt what you have now you will see what to expect.Then you will have a little button instead of the powder,and should see how pure it is from how the button looks.
Have you watched Steve's video where he melts the powder?Or any on Youtube?

Jim

 

[hfywc]

hi jim,

thanks for a quick reply...and yes, i have watched most of the videos on steve's website. i am taking this slow because i don't want to loose anymore brown mud. i did two batches previously using a different approach in which both cases i was able to precipitate mud-like substance. because of ignorance and lack of knowledge i threw them away. thinking that it will not dissolved in nitric which it did, i mistaken it as something else. it was a considerable amount....tsk, tsk!

right now i am on a hunt for a good torch...i found a good candidate at home depot. only thing that's stopping me from buying is i don't know where i can get a refill on the fuel once the tank gets empty...

thanks again,
alan

 

[jimdoc]

They sell mapp gas at Home Depot,that will do the job.
That is what I use,with a regular old propane torch with
the trigger igniter switch.With Steve's mini furnace it will
melt much easier.But I manage with just the melting dish
on a firebrick.

Jim

 

[hfywc]

great! thanks jim.

 

[jimdoc]

What did you plan on buying?The little welding setup?

 

[hfywc]

i think it's called Port-a-torch or something and it has two metal tanks--one oxygen and the other acetylene?

 

[glorycloud]

The oxygen will get you a hotter flame but the draw back is that
you seem go through a lot of it. That's why most folks here seem
to use the MAPP gas.

Not that I am an expert on melting gold! :lol:

 

[Harold_V]

The melting of values by torch is best accomplished using natural gas and oxygen. Cost isn't an issue, assuming one chooses the larger cylinder sizes of oxygen. Mapp gas, by comparison, is quite expensive.

The benefits of moving beyond the small cylinder torches is worth the effort, regardless of your fuel type. They simply do not produce the btu's that are required to make melting easy.

Harold

 

[Anonymous]

I use a full size oxy/acet setup.My acet. tank is about 4 feet tall,and my oxy tank is about 5 feet.I got both of them for free about 3 years ago,I filled them both for less than $50 and I have not had to refill them since.The oxy tanks are easier to come by than the acet. tanks,so if you can find one of those free or cheap get it,and if you can't find an acet. tank free or cheap,then use propane,however you will need to buy a different torch tip for about $10.
Take harolds comment to the bank.If you can find any way to use the larger bottles.....do it.

 

[Rickthenewb]

I recently used the sulfur cell and I am not sure of my results. I combined all of my gold powder (the black stuff from rinses and cell) added equal amounts of water and HCl with tsp of sodium nitrate and add heat. The solution turned green, I then cooled and filtered. I started adding SMB and solution turned first black but now looks muddy brown. How much SMB should I add and is this the color it should be ?

Thanks in advance
rick

 

[dtectr]

I recently used the sulfur cell and I am not sure of my results. I combined all of my gold powder (the black stuff from rinses and cell) added equal amounts of water and HCl with tsp of sodium nitrate and add heat. The solution turned green, I then cooled and filtered. I started adding SMB and solution turned first black but now looks muddy brown. How much SMB should I add and is this the color it should be ?

Thanks in advance
rick

Rick
I'm asking to learn as much as to advise so bear with me, please.
Color sounds about right. how much powder did you start with & how much SMB did you add? Were you sure all the nitric was
gone by adding a little more HCl until no more red fumes arose before moving on to SMB?
I'm sure you already did this, but it'll keep me awake tonight if I don't ask - did you roast your cell powder before treating it?

 

[Rickthenewb]

Hi dtechr, I started by adding the equal amounts of water and HCl to my powder (not sure how much powder there was), I added about 1.5 tsp of sodium nitrate and heated. Everything dissolved except for some mossy green looking trash floating. I filtered the solution after it cooled. At this point is was a bright green solution. I added dry SMB (at first some red fumes from the nitric did appear but then ceased. I added quite a bit of SMB because I was waiting for the solution to turn clear then black like with the auric chloride but this did not happen. The solution is muddy brown with a tint of green and tests positive for gold with stannous chloride.

thanks again.

 

[dtectr]

Hi dtechr, I started by adding the equal amounts of water and HCl to my powder (not sure how much powder there was), I added about 1.5 tsp of sodium nitrate and heated. Everything dissolved except for some mossy green looking trash floating. I filtered the solution after it cooled. At this point is was a bright green solution. I added dry SMB (at first some red fumes from the nitric did appear but then ceased. I added quite a bit of SMB because I was waiting for the solution to turn clear then black like with the auric chloride but this did not happen. The solution is muddy brown with a tint of green and tests positive for gold with stannous chloride.

thanks again.

hey rick
been following something similar on a different thread, same topic, though. I think it was "not precipitating" or something.
Has anything begun to drop out yet?
either way - 2 different but related approaches:
Hoke says problem likely too high acid content & reccomended adding more tap water to lower ph. OR to sprinkle sodium carbonate (Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda) a pinch at a time to lower ph.
BR 007 adds ice to his solution until container begins to sweat
Oz puts his in the freezer.
BR 007's way would change BOTH temp & ph; Oz's would change temp only - both swear by it & both should know.

if you have enough solution & want to experiment & report back - maybe divide your solution & try more than one method. don't worry - you won't lose your gold, its always there. you can always combine your individual precipitates for the melt.

THIS IS JUST AN IDEA - but since were discussing this only yesterday & today, I haven't had a chance to try these. check the other thread for more specifics, as well as be able to contact these 2 guys directly.

Just my dos centavos.

 

[lazersteve]

Carbonate will raise the pH, not lower it, since it is a base.

Acids lower the pH, while bases raise it.

Steve

 

[qst42know]

I filtered the solution after it cooled. At this point is was a bright green solution. I added dry SMB (at first some red fumes from the nitric did appear but then ceased.

Three questions.

1. Did you dilute your solution before you filtered?

The solution is muddy brown with a tint of green and tests positive for gold with stannous chloride.

2. Your positive test is purple not some other color?

3. As I understand SMB reacts with HCL to form SO2. The red fumes were from remaining nitric but are you sure you still have some HCL in your solution?

It is possible your HCL was depleted and not available form the SO2 necessary to precipitate.

 

[goldenchild]

Carbonate will raise the pH, not lower it, since it is a base.

Acids lower the pH, while bases raise it.

Steve

Yes. He probably meant the normal baking soda which is bicarbonate. The one pictured can be used to clean your crucibles though

 

[lazersteve]

Carbonate will raise the pH, not lower it, since it is a base.

Acids lower the pH, while bases raise it.

Steve

Yes. He probably meant the normal baking soda which is bicarbonate. The one pictured can be used to clean your crucibles though

Bicarbonate is also a base.

Steve

 

[dtectr]

Carbonate will raise the pH, not lower it, since it is a base.

Acids lower the pH, while bases raise it.

Steve

Yes. He probably meant the normal baking soda which is bicarbonate. The one pictured can be used to clean your crucibles though

Bicarbonate is also a base.

Steve

steve is right - thanks for catching that terminology snafu. that's the kind of thing that could really confuse someone who follows directions exactly.
the "ph direction" (up vs. down) terminology has been my nemesis since 7th grade chemistry. i still tell my wife to turn up the air conditioner when i want it cooler.

That being said, Hoke did suggest sodium carbonate, washing soda, to "change the ph the other direction from acidity" :lol: 8) of the solution to help drop your gold. Don't know if it works, never tried it, which i believe i stated in the post. but i could be wrong.

Washing soda has no detergents or soaps, in fact, if you switch to soap from regular laundry detergent, you must wash garments first in washing soda (sodium carbonate) only to REMOVE excess detergent to prevent permanent yellowing of your clothes.

don't know why you'd EVER need to know that, but there you are.

 

[Rickthenewb]

ok sorry for the delay, after several days of settling the beaker has about a quarter inch of light blue on top (assuming sulfuric), then the rest of the solution is clear amber with tan mud on bottom (assuming gold) the solution still tests positive for gold. Thanx again in advance.