NTR METALS...A++ Refiner!

[Dan Dement]

The Movie Avatar looks real too. I am not saying they don't make the rings but the picture posted sure looks like a computer generated render to me. If you go to my website
http://www.stoneoakjewelers.com
the first couple of splash scenes are computer generated movies we did over five years ago. Did them all in house. These are squeezed Dow for quick downloads for the net. Just because it looks real, does not mean it's a real piece of jewelry, car, airplane, or anything else. I got a couple of Hollywood Render guru's that are the real Pro's at them. Something 7,000 computer hours per frame at 60 frames per second! Big render farms! Just my little humble opinion from a self confessed gadget nut!

Dan

 

[Dan Dement]

Just to be clear about pricing, it's kind of like a car. Order one and it's a million dollars. Order three and it's $750,000. Order a 1000 and it's $100,000. And then somebody in China will knock off for $20,000 if you order a million of them.
I am in the Custom business because Women like what we do but want something different. Does not matter what I have , they want to change it. Every stone is different, thens always a different ring size, or smaller diamond, or shape, or something else. I don't make molds, we just make new models and grow them! Turn most cutoff jobs out in a week. Right now, I got about 15 jobs in the pipeline and trying to mke everyone happy.

Dan

 

[kuma]

Hi Dan , how are tricks?
I hope your well!

The Movie Avatar looks real too.

Sorry chief , it's got some great graphics , but it still looks like a fancy computer game to me! :lol:

If you go to my website http://www.stoneoakjewelers.com the first couple of splash scenes are computer generated movies we did over five years ago. Did them all in house.

I'll be honest chief I'm no techy when it comes to computers and graphics , but to me the graphics on my cellphone are more convincing , and it's an alcatal , :roll:
Zooming right in on this image of the AU ring , it looks preety real to me chief ,

http://walyou.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/periodic-table-elements-au-ring.jpg

Just because it looks real, does not mean it's a real piece of jewelry, ........(or) anything else. I got a couple of Hollywood Render guru's that are the real Pro's at them.

That sounds kind of expensive too me , why not just take a picture ? :roll:
I can understand the need for some graphics wizardry when you require a spinning 3d animation of a computer generated ring , however.
It would certainly save a lot of money compared to bringing in more expensive camera equipment and clever lighting.

Edit during writing this ; I have just recieved this email from itsno.name (conversation starts at bottom) ;

Hahaha, Hi Chris!
These are actual photos we took and then pieced together. Good lenses!
Hope that helps your debate.

Best,

Jean Choi-Johnson
Owner, INN
http://itsno.name


On Feb 29, 2012, at 9:24 AM, Chris Coomer wrote:

Hello again Jean , and thank you four your rapid response!
Can I please ask you just one more question , and I’m so sorry for taking up your time , regarding your marketing image of the three Periodic Table rings with the black background , is this image computer generated by any chance?
Someone that I’ve been talking with is sure that it is , and I’m sorry for sounding cynical but I’m not sure ,
Many thanks again ,
All the best and kind regards ,
Chris C.

From: Team INN
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 1:22 PM
To: Chris Coomer
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Periodic Table Rings

Hello Chris,

Yes we are a small company based in New York City.
Let me know what questions you may have about our Periodic collection. The rings are made to order.

Best,

Jean Choi-Johnson
Owner, INN
http://itsno.name


Sorry chief , I had to know!
All the very best for now , and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:

 

[joem]

The one thing that really puts me off when I go to a site to buy a distinct item is when the catlog looks like a links page and the site owner also sells non related items. In this case some very expensive rings along side some silk ties I can buy in any average men's suit store. Credibility in my mind just went way down.

 

[MiguelRosas]

4Metals -

Slightly off topic, I agree and also disagree, but that's a whole other discussion - however do you not believe that the alchemist doing the fire assay is far more important than just saying Fire assay is better than XRF ... period ? I just want to point out that the individual must be knowledgable about the process or his results may be just as off as a cheap XRF- no?

Sorry, this is troubling me lol...

Nobody else caught that!?!? 8) :lol: 8)

and here I thought I was being clever and funny. :mrgreen:

 

[kuma]

Hello Joe , how are tricks?
I hope that your all well chief!

The one thing that really puts me off when I go to a site to buy a distinct item is when the catlog looks like a links page and the site owner also sells non related items. In this case some very expensive rings along side some silk ties I can buy in any average men's suit store. Credibility in my mind just went way down.

Just a thought chief , ;

http://www.porsche-design.com/international/en/products/

Maybe I'm not seeing it , but in my eyes if I can go to Porshe and buy a wallet or or a suitcase , I really don't see any difference in going to a jeweler and buying a limited edition designer necktie.
It certainly wouldn't put me off , :roll:
All the very best , and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:

(Edited for clarity & link )

 

[Dan Dement]

I just cashed out at NTR today after running all the XRF which agreed to NTR's XRF by a difference of .0008% on the pin sample which I ran , my SG calculation, and cut in half averaging with the results of my calculation of $12,094.88 and I was paid $12,140.67.! With all the conversation about methods and different methods, I must say I am very happy with the results. This is number 5 of my payouts since upgrading my equipment and I have been near dead on in my calculations and checks. I certainly better understand some of the difficults in determining actual fineness of a bar of mixed gold. Still, the most interesting point to me is how the dead center is the least pure.

Peace,

Dan

 

[4metals]

Do you know which XRF they used? And I wonder if all of their locations use the same.

 

[Dan Dement]

4metals,

The XRF they use has an NTR label on top of it and has no brand name visible. I know it read with twin readers as I have seen two different results reads on the same piece at the same time. The grafting is much more complex and sharper than my QS295x which has an SSD reader. When the graph runs, they can click on a spike and throw trace metals into the mix. I think they have a full time tech that calibrates the machine remotely. I have been studying results and experimenting, With my current new machine, new SG scale, wand melter it makes my formula right on with their payouts. I am five out of five of the payouts within less than $100 on over $12,000 plus. In comparing my results with NTR's $100,000 machine & 3 minute reads to my $37,000 20second reads, we are usually within the first three digits arguing about the fourth! I am very happy with the outcome of my experiments and still learning. Learned two new things this week. 1. If you laser polish spots on a bar, purity reads about .3 lower. 2. If you run the bar over a grinder style wire brush, you get a cleaner read on a XRF and helps remove lots of the little trace element readings.

I did test the " dragging effect" by polishing a cut in half bar with really no change but don't laser it as it lowers the reading. It seems that the copper is really what moves inside the bar as it is cooling. Funny thing is PD on the inside in trace elements when it is not on the outside. Melted and XRF'ed same bar many, many times. I need more time and experiments but my money results are pretty close! Just trying to learn!

Peace,
Dan

 

[Lobby]

This is just fascinating.

Hey, Dan. Waves from the south side. :lol:

My experience with NTR hasn't been that good. One of these days, I may post up some data, but as I'm still negotiating with them (since blasted January), I don't feel I should. Perhaps a later date.

I will say that I've appreciated the discussion in this thread.

 

[Dan Dement]

Leo,

You need to come by and let me show you what you have. I don't do this stuff for the practice!

Dan

 

[Dan Dement]

Lobby,

I understand were you are coming from. I cashed out again today and when I walk in, I know exactly what my lowest figure is by my calculations. I have two different methods that I use which is multi XRF results and an accurate SG results. Yes, I have done everything including pin samples, cutting bars in half, melting and remelting in different configurations. I have sent my results to couple of the Genius Guys on this forum for their comments and review. AS GSP says, the Refiner is the last Liar! Now I am not through with my experiments but I think a homologous mix were everything is exactly the same is a myth. Now, I am nothing but a Newbie at this but I do have a few toys to base my experiments and to play with.

If nothing else, I count pretty good and I am pleased with results and cashouts. I am not saying if I want to accumculate 100 oz's that I might to make another percent or two. Everybody has got to make a living and what you got to do is set a reasonable number that you will be satisfied with. I will tell what I think the purity is of your gold. WE might remelt it and we might even cut it in half, all with you doing it with me. Test the cuttings, make a pin sample and test it, run all sides of it , check the inside is all things I have done many times. Bottom line, I walk out with a check I am happy with. That's about all one can hope for. Bottom line: It's all free. . I am happy to help you. . No pressure. . No promises,. . No B.S.!
I will tell you now much I can get for the bar. . I will even sell it and endorse the check over to you or take you to NTR or Central. All I can say is that NTR pays me a little more. I might need some help some day and then you can help me!

Friends helping Friends!

Dan

 

[Lobby]

Lobby,

I understand were you are coming from. I cashed out again today and when I walk in, I know exactly what my lowest figure is by my calculations. I have two different methods that I use which is multi XRF results and an accurate SG results. Yes, I have done everything including pin samples, cutting bars in half, melting and remelting in different configurations. I have sent my results to couple of the Genius Guys on this forum for their comments and review. AS GSP says, the Refiner is the last Liar! Now I am not through with my experiments but I think a homologous mix were everything is exactly the same is a myth. Now, I am nothing but a Newbie at this but I do have a few toys to base my experiments and to play with.

If nothing else, I count pretty good and I am pleased with results and cashouts. I am not saying if I want to accumculate 100 oz's that I might to make another percent or two. Everybody has got to make a living and what you got to do is set a reasonable number that you will be satisfied with. I will tell what I think the purity is of your gold. WE might remelt it and we might even cut it in half, all with you doing it with me. Test the cuttings, make a pin sample and test it, run all sides of it , check the inside is all things I have done many times. Bottom line, I walk out with a check I am happy with. That's about all one can hope for. Bottom line: It's all free. . I am happy to help you. . No pressure. . No promises,. . No B.S.!
I will tell you now much I can get for the bar. . I will even sell it and endorse the check over to you or take you to NTR or Central. All I can say is that NTR pays me a little more. I might need some help some day and then you can help me!

Friends helping Friends!

Dan

Thanks, Dan.

I'm refining a batch as I type this. I'll take the finished bar and have you look at it.

I'll also take some raw scrap and have you melt it, prior to refining it. Just to check my yields.

As a retired chem engineer, processing stuff without analytical is annoying. Not knowing whether you're in control until the batch is over sucks. We'll see each other next week, God willing.

 

[Dan Dement]

Lobby,

Got lots of expensive toys you are welcome to use! Happy for you to review the way I do things and give me an honest opionon. I have plans to be out on Tuesday and Thursday of this next week so just be warned. You can always call me on my cell.

Dan

 

[Palladium]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzTPc2FfWs0&feature=channel[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdHp3SRDHjU&feature=channel[/youtube]

 

[Dan Dement]

PD,

Thanks for the video and I appreciate your input.

On a personal level, my mother died of lung cancer and I watched her die a over a 9 month period. She had a full checkup six months before and by the time my brother & I were having lunch with her and she was dragging a leg. Long Story short: Nine months later she died at home surrounded by her children and grandchildren, Broke my heart and no amount of money could save her! So, just saying, Stop Smoking!

I am not in love with NTR. I think that NTR treats me fairly. I think I know were the smoke & mirrors begins and ends. I have questioned the methodology of determining the purity of a given 400 grams of gold. I have checked around and had offers from another new transplant refiner that is more transparent. He offered me about 1% less than NTR cashed me out. I have conducted a couple of studies that I have had a couple of the GURU's review which I have not yet posted. Bottom line, I really don't think that you can operate a profitable business on 1.5% margin or I should say, I can not operate a business on 1.5% profit!

Lobby sounds like he has all the technical skills but not the toys. Toys I have and I think I get real close on what I think the gold purity is using my methods. The cost is certainly reasonable as it's free. I might be right and I might be wrong but I am happy with what I get. Am I interested in making more money on my return, you bet I am. I am here to learn but to share also. My little adventure has been profitable so far and it's sure taking me in some new directions that I never would have guessed.. I have to weight turning the money several times a week or holding until I get enough to make 100 ounce large refine. With what gold has been doing this last week, I choose to cash out every 2-3 days. I do agree with you on the silver. With San Antonio being so close to Mexico, about 1/2 the silver we see is loaded with lead or sawdust. My wand melter gets quite a workout everyday and sures makes my estimations are fairly accurate. The ability to be able to melt in a minute or two is very helpful.

If you PM me your email, I am happy to send you my Numbie study on accuracy of my XRF for your review. I just don't feel I have enough information to post conclusions.The Pro's have set the knowledge bar very high for this newbie to question experience. Diamonds, I will argue with anybody as that I know.

Peace,
Dan




Dan

 

[nickvc]

Dan I can see you point of view over working on a margin of 1.5% gross but it's a numbers game.
The big refiners need a constant supply of material but have fixed costs and overheads so once the break even figure is reached every gram after that starts to generate profits, plus don't forget they get every value out silver, PGMs and I don't doubt the big boys probably shift the base metals onto the base metal refiners. I can't imagine how much material these guys must move but let's say they turnover $20,000,000 a week and they use the latest technology to process most of this then at least 90% of the values will be out within 2 working days and with a small but skilled workforce, do the math it's not a bad return and the fast turnaround has cut the costs of borrowing.
This is based just on karat scrap and or bars but don't forget they do many forms of scrap and some won't be processed at 1.5% margin but much higher and then the big boys then add value by creating products which sell for a premium to consumers. When I refined commercially we made most of our profits from alloyed product,we made money refining but it was small compared to the added value from our karat alloy products.

 

[Lobby]

...
Bottom line, I really don't think that you can operate a profitable business on 1.5% margin or I should say, I can not operate a business on 1.5% profit!
...
Dan

This is EXACTLY where I am. Whereas I believe the really big boys (JM, Metalor, etc) can refine with small margins, my sense (and I haven't done the calcs, so this is purely from my heart) is that there really is no difference between Refiner 1 offering you 97%, Refiner 2 offering you 98%, and Refiner 3 offering you 99%.

I believe it's the same number, disguised with XRF analytical.

What I want is an honest refiner...

 

[Dan Dement]

LOBBY,

I hear you brother but what I want is as big a check as possible. When I walk in, I have my number. Maybe you will agree and maybe you will not agree with the way I do things. In my research I find that the gold content varies like crazy. I look forward to studing your refining and reviewing the results. I find the Pin sample to be the lowest reading possible except for the cuttings. Come, your the professional Chemist, me I am the guy with the toys who writes the checks! We will test and play with the toys. You come up with your number and i will tell you what I think I can get a check for it. Either way, we will have a good discussion and if you can teach me something, I will appreciate it. I think you will like my toys and I think you will approve!

Either way, the price is right. All I ask is that you post the truth and perhaps by joining our intellects, we can help each other!

Dan

 

[Lobby]

Oh, I wasn't disagreeing with you, Dan. At all.

I was merely saying that all these "I'll pay you 0.5% more than the other guy" means nothing if you don't know what you're selling them.