NTR Metals , seems to be the best refiner I can find

[frontiermetals]

Thank you Sir. Good to be back.

Welcome back Jeff.

 

[Dan Dement]

Hi Jeff,

Yes, I do remember you and you have the store on the square were my Grandparnets had a grocery store in the 50'2. You need to come by and play with my new XRF that gives me accurate readings in 20 seconds and my new SG setup. I have had my proess reviewed my a couple of pro's and I think I am about as accurate as we are going to get except for just going whole hog and getting a batch refined. It's sure a trade off of holding off tp accumulate 100 0z pure and watching the market going up and down everyday. Lobby came by the other day and verified some of his refining and is testing a batch now. Will be interesting to see what his results come back against my estimation. Live and learn!

Your always welcome to come by and I will test your batch in front of you. Always nce to have a second opinion to for piece of mind. I must say that Andy & I usually agree to within $20. or so at over $10,000 payout. Always looking for ways to improve. Just know my door is always open and your welcome to play with my toys.

Dan

 

[Lobby]

Hi Jeff,

Yes, I do remember you and you have the store on the square were my Grandparnets had a grocery store in the 50'2. You need to come by and play with my new XRF that gives me accurate readings in 20 seconds and my new SG setup. I have had my proess reviewed my a couple of pro's and I think I am about as accurate as we are going to get except for just going whole hog and getting a batch refined. It's sure a trade off of holding off tp accumulate 100 0z pure and watching the market going up and down everyday. Lobby came by the other day and verified some of his refining and is testing a batch now. Will be interesting to see what his results come back against my estimation. Live and learn!

Your always welcome to come by and I will test your batch in front of you. Always nce to have a second opinion to for piece of mind. I must say that Andy & I usually agree to within $20. or so at over $10,000 payout. Always looking for ways to improve. Just know my door is always open and your welcome to play with my toys.

Dan

Dan, it was a pleasure meeting you. Thanks so much for all you did for me.

You have a keen sense of both business and technology so rare in folks. No wonder you're the success you are.

I'm refining the gold you tested for me as I type this. Let's see where my yields end up.

 

[fandango11536]

I've dealt with NTR metals many times over the past 3 months and with mixed results. My only way of testing is to use the acids 10, 14, 18, 22 and my experience of 35 years handling precious metals. I do not consider myself savvy, but I'm with it enough to calculate what a batch of gold is worth given the percentages of mixed karats. You who are experienced refiners will most likely chuckle. My batches are composed of jewelry 10, 14 and 18 karat. I acid test, separate, weigh each karat so I have an idea what I'm submitting. I relize that the money is made in the assay. Every batch I've taken to said refinery weighs in at 0.1 to 0.4 less than my scale and I usually ok it. After melt weight loss are around 0.75 -1.0 percent. Some of my assays have been favorable and some not. I question the ones that are not. My latest experince was one of them: Check in at 0.5 dwt. short, Before melt 113.0 dwt after melt 112.4 dwt, I brought 71.4 dwt 14kt, 10.4 dwt. 10 kt, and 31.7 dwt 18kt. The assay was 54.14%. I accepted it, because I need the cash flow and if it were tested after melt it may have well been 54%. Where did the rest go? Maybe the 18kt was pulled and a sub tossed in? Who knows. They could always say there was a piece of gold filled mixed in. I've had better assays with them, but it alsways seems like for every 2 good I get a whack. My net retuns have been about 90-96%. Also on this last run, I scrapped some sterling flatware which is usually a 92% assay. This time, however, it came up short on the weigh in and assayed at 88.92%??? I wouldn't mind dealing with a refiner who payed 97% but did a fair assay. Then I would receive 96-97% steadily, instead of 92-96% with doubts about integrity.

Sometimes I process the karats separately to try for a better return but I still get hosed.

My experience with NTR has been exactly the same as Honesty 21's throughout my tenure selling to them. The worst offense occured this afternoon and represents a fork in the road that will undoubtedly require legal action to remedy.
To make a lengthy story somewhat short, I was shorted about $1500 on a $3500 payout for a lot of 14K The assay returned at about 30% and needless to say, I was quite shocked. When they presented the check to me and briskly walked away it was clear I would be provided very few answers without a monumental struggle. I informed Butch the local branch manger that I would need to see video footage of how my gold was processed and exactly who handled the items througout the transaction. He blatantly lied along with Jerry and told me they did not have an internal camera system behind the glass to record internal procedures (We both simultaneously stared at the 5 cameras represented in the lobby)At this point in oir conversation, I mentioned it might be necessary to call the local police to file a fraud and theft report as I believed one of my items, a 56g gold chain had been removed from the lot and replaced with a copper heavy material whuch accounted for the low assay. Not so hard to beleive based on what I am reading on this forum. As it stands now, I demanded my gold back which they obliged, I plan to call the home office in the morning to request the video footage (I'm sure they'll get right on this), I will file a police report for theft, My attorney is reaching out to NTR determine their willingness to provide answers to this occurence.

Key points -
1. All items were thoroughly tested and scanned with XRF before processing at NTR. Assay should have been 57.9%
2. Although this is the largest assay shorting offense I have been personally involved with concerning NTR, it is certainly not the first but will be the last.
3. The willingness of the local staff in Charlotte to lie for NTR is astounding and a clear indication of the culture that exists to defraud and cheat licensed dealers.
4. I am searching for other local dealers within the Charlotte, NC region who have similar greivances with NTR in an effort to bring this shady business practice to a halt before more individuals are defrauded and abused by these underhanded practices.

 

[nickvc]

I'm not defending NTR or accusing anyone of anything but will relate a story that actually occurred here in the UK, a large gold buying customer was constantly down on his results with a very large refiner who equally constantly denied they were at fault and their assays and weights were correct. This went on for some time until one of the staff was caught with kruggerands in his pockets from the melt belonging to this particular customer, it turns out he had a good collection at home.
The moral here is do your own melts and take a sample even if you don't have it assayed then you have some recourse should things go wrong, the samples can always be added to future melts when no longer required.

 

[goldbuyer000]

NTR will consistently rip you off by at least 3-5%, not including the % you are already agreeing to pay them. They will give you every excuse possible why your assay is lower than expected. AVOID THEM 100% IF POSSIBLE! A very dishonest, greedy company.

 

[Dan Dement]

Goldbuyer,

I got to tell I do not the same experience that you have. I understand, there are 40 locations which means 40 different XRF, 40 different managers, and 40 x 2 different personalities. I am no expert Refiner and do not claim to be but I am very good friends with a couple of guys that I will match with anyone. As some will agree, I have a very toy addiction which puts me near the top of having every Jewelry toy known to man. What I am is a good business man that does a decent job of calculating the purity of Gold. I buy and sell 7 figures a year in gold and have a middle of the road $40,000 XRF which is less than 8 months old and it is my fourth and also have have two separate Alpha Mirage Specific Gravity scales. I can calculate the value of 600 grams of gold usually within a $20. window. Every now and then, I find a error in a master sample or my XRF does not agree with NTR's. Nobody is perfect but I find my NTR office to always treat me fairly. I have made a mistake or two and NTR office always catches and pays me the proper amount.

Now, I do not know what science you are using to base your statement on of them cheating 3-5% every time. I am not so naive to think NTR treats everybody like they pay me but I hope they do. When you have an office and people to pay, transport, refine, and resell the gold at spot. . I don't want to risk my money for 1.5% plus the extra $10 per oz of silver. So here is what I suggest. Next time go to NTR and get their quote and don't sell it but keep their quote. Send it off to a company and get it analyzized and see what it is. If you want to send it to me, I am happy to run my tests and tell you what my results show. I can give you a couple of other names of people who will do the same thing. Lots & lots of things can effect your readings. Are you melting in an Induction Melter? I got two of them but my jewelers like to melt things by torch and I get up to 20% difference from one end of an ingot to another by torch. Do yo have an SG scale? Great way to get an overall independent value from an XRF. Do you have an XRF? If yes, do have certified masters to insure it's reading correctly.

Bottom line: If you think they are cheating you then don't do business with them! I have a Very good friend here of GRF that I know I can get a slightly better return from Like .5% . However, I got to ship and wait a week for my money. I am fortunate that money and capital is not my problem but for me, I prefer to take .5% less and walk out with a check. I like turning my money 100 times a year instead of 26 times a year. To me, that makes more business sense to turn the money and save the shipping charges than to get a slightly higher return.

Good Luck,
Dan

 

[MiguelRosas]

Goldbuyer -

I think Dan's advice is spot on, if you don't agree with the results, don't accept. I always recommend to my clients to hold me and Hi-Tech accountable by randomly testing us. Here at Hi-Tech we pull 2 liquid pin samples, and use this to XRF (if you want same day settlement, otherwise we Fire assay too) - yet if we XRF, you can always ask for the sample and send it off to a 3rd party to verify our results, PRIOR to accepting the settlement.

Competition is so tough, and the margins so thin now-a-days, that the reality is we refiners can no longer dictate the rules of the game. We either do our job, pay accurately, settle quickly and provide value to our customers business or you move on to someone who will. And in the long run, you leaving my company costs more than a poor reputation for "shorting" a customer.