Old Prospector Makes Good

[Nountaineer]

Wouldn't the corp be interested in funding on a partner basis?

Only have access to ore now, possibly later. I am on my own for now.

 

[Darkthirty]

Only have access to ore now, possibly later. I am on my own for now.

https://www.skylinelabs.com/uploads/1/1/8/8/118846133/skyline_2023_catalog_english_v6.pdfTucson and smaller samples

 

[Nountaineer]

A jewelry scrap/refinery middle man told me to buy scrap copper and mix my gold/platinum ore into the molten copper in a very hot furnace, make ingots and then sell them. Has anyone else done that ?

 

[goldshark]

I am wondering what the middle mans' reason for doing that is. Is he giving you advice on how to do inquarting, for refining, or what. Did he define "very hot"? Judging by the posts you have previously made, I am assuming you are trying to mix placer concentrates with Copper to act as a collector metal in a smelting operation. This is a reasonable approach, but you may have better results if you learn to either smelt on a small scale using Lead or Bismuth as a collector metal. Read a lot of other threads on how to do this. This will enable you to have a bead of PMs, rather than a large piece of Copper bar to send to a refiner. The method described by the jeweler will have to be reduced by Nitric, which ends up being costly in Nitric, relative to cupeling a small amount of Pb or Sn collector metal. Either way will work, it will depend on quantities, to determine which is the best method. State quantities you are desiring to reduce, and the forum will give good directions on how you should proceed.

 

[kurtak]

A jewelry scrap/refinery middle man told me to buy scrap copper and mix my gold/platinum ore into the molten copper in a very hot furnace, make ingots and then sell them. Has anyone else done that ?

Per the bold print - first of I assume you are talking about smelting actual batches of your mill run & not samples for assay ?

If that is so - then yes - smelting with copper as your collector metal is "one way" of recovering your PMs (Precious Metals) from the ore

The copper dore (ingots) that then contain the PMs can then be sold off to copper refiners that also pay out on the PMs contained in the copper

In fact - though I have never done this method with ore - I have done it with electronic scrap to collect the PMs in E-waste (circuit boards) --- In fact it is the method used by the BIG BOYS to recover PMs from E-waste & they do so because before E-waste came along this method worked well with ore (copper ore smelters)

Whether it is E-waste - or ore - the "basic" principle for smelting with copper as a collector are the same

However - the instructions you were given is not the way it is done ---------

buy scrap copper and mix my gold/platinum ore into the molten copper in a very hot furnace,

Per the bold print - you don't get the copper molten & then mix the ore into the molten copper

Rather - you mix the ore - the flux - & the copper all together - you then put that "load" of mixed ore/flux/copper in the furnace & bring it all up to molten temp - once it is all molten (for a period of time) you pour the molten smelt to a "cone" mold which allows the molten dore metal to settle to the bottom of the mold & the slag (flux) to separate out on top of the metal - the metal is then knocked free from the slag after it has all cooled & solidified in the mold --- the copper needs to be chopped fine so that it mixes in well with the ore & flux

I was going to actually suggest this in your other thread because in your other thread you had mentioned you had a furnace

I (& as well others) can help you with this - but - we are going to need a lot more information about your set up (milling, concentration, furnace etc. capabilities) as well as more about your ore composition (sulfides in the ore - or not - etc.)

Side note to moderators; - IMO - this thread is on the same subject as his other thread (Old Prospector Makes Good) so it would be good if this thread was combined with that thread to keep the discussion about his ore all in one place

Kurt

 

[Yggdrasil]

Per the bold print - first of I assume you are talking about smelting actual batches of your mill run & not samples for assay ?

If that is so - then yes - smelting with copper as your collector metal is "one way" of recovering your PMs (Precious Metals) from the ore

The copper dore (ingots) that then contain the PMs can then be sold off to copper refiners that also pay out on the PMs contained in the copper

In fact - though I have never done this method with ore - I have done it with electronic scrap to collect the PMs in E-waste (circuit boards) --- In fact it is the method used by the BIG BOYS to recover PMs from E-waste & they do so because before E-waste came along this method worked well with ore (copper ore smelters)

Whether it is E-waste - or ore - the "basic" principle for smelting with copper as a collector are the same

However - the instructions you were given is not the way it is done ---------

Per the bold print - you don't get the copper molten & then mix the ore into the molten copper

Rather - you mix the ore - the flux - & the copper all together - you then put that "load" of mixed ore/flux/copper in the furnace & bring it all up to molten temp - once it is all molten (for a period of time) you pour the molten smelt to a "cone" mold which allows the molten dore metal to settle to the bottom of the mold & the slag (flux) to separate out on top of the metal - the metal is then knocked free from the slag after it has all cooled & solidified in the mold --- the copper needs to be chopped fine so that it mixes in well with the ore & flux

I was going to actually suggest this in your other thread because in your other thread you had mentioned you had a furnace

I (& as well others) can help you with this - but - we are going to need a lot more information about your set up (milling, concentration, furnace etc. capabilities) as well as more about your ore composition (sulfides in the ore - or not - etc.)

Side note to moderators; - IMO - this thread is on the same subject as his other thread (Old Prospector Makes Good) so it would be good if this thread was combined with that thread to keep the discussion about his ore all in one place

Kurt

I agree

 

[Nountaineer]

The corporation should have their own assays. Maybe they would sell you a copy?

There may be possible collaboration later but am on my own for now. The corporation may build a refinery because of the size of this deposit, it would be feasible.

 

[Nountaineer]

Per the bold print - first of I assume you are talking about smelting actual batches of your mill run & not samples for assay ?

If that is so - then yes - smelting with copper as your collector metal is "one way" of recovering your PMs (Precious Metals) from the ore

The copper dore (ingots) that then contain the PMs can then be sold off to copper refiners that also pay out on the PMs contained in the copper

In fact - though I have never done this method with ore - I have done it with electronic scrap to collect the PMs in E-waste (circuit boards) --- In fact it is the method used by the BIG BOYS to recover PMs from E-waste & they do so because before E-waste came along this method worked well with ore (copper ore smelters)

Whether it is E-waste - or ore - the "basic" principle for smelting with copper as a collector are the same

However - the instructions you were given is not the way it is done ---------

Per the bold print - you don't get the copper molten & then mix the ore into the molten copper

Rather - you mix the ore - the flux - & the copper all together - you then put that "load" of mixed ore/flux/copper in the furnace & bring it all up to molten temp - once it is all molten (for a period of time) you pour the molten smelt to a "cone" mold which allows the molten dore metal to settle to the bottom of the mold & the slag (flux) to separate out on top of the metal - the metal is then knocked free from the slag after it has all cooled & solidified in the mold --- the copper needs to be chopped fine so that it mixes in well with the ore & flux

I was going to actually suggest this in your other thread because in your other thread you had mentioned you had a furnace

I (& as well others) can help you with this - but - we are going to need a lot more information about your set up (milling, concentration, furnace etc. capabilities) as well as more about your ore composition (sulfides in the ore - or not - etc.)

Side note to moderators; - IMO - this thread is on the same subject as his other thread (Old Prospector Makes Good) so it would be good if this thread was combined with that thread to keep the discussion about his ore all in one place

Kurt

Thank you Kurt, this is my situation. I have blast and ship type ore for the refinery and have no truck and trailer for this. I need to raise cash to purchase same. I am very disabled and sick. I need to hire someone to help me get well so I am in need of much cash to do this. This ore is incredibly rich and I need help with making money to be able to ship it myself.

 

[Nountaineer]

I agree

Thank you, the Man who suggested that molten copper is mixed with ore has a dad who works for a major refinery in California and that was his best advice for me. He did not mention flux but a mining engineer type guy that I know said to add some carbon to help pull the pms.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Thank you Kurt, this is my situation. I have blast and ship type ore for the refinery and have no truck and trailer for this. I need to raise cash to purchase same. I am very disabled and sick. I need to hire someone to help me get well so I am in need of much cash to do this. This ore is incredibly rich and I need help with making money to be able to ship it myself.

The point is that until you have a proper assay, all you basically have is miscellaneous rocks.
To have an assay done you should need less than a pound of material as long as it is properly prepared and mixed.
If you start to invest untill you KNOW (not think) what you have you may risk loosing the investment too.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Thank you, the Man who suggested that molten copper is mixed with ore has a dad who works for a major refinery in California and that was his best advice for me. He did not mention flux but a mining engineer type guy that I know said to add some carbon to help pull the pms.

That could indicate he do not know as much as he believes.

Carbon do not pull PMs out of a smelt, but it may reduce oxides in a smelt and thus liberate metals as collector metal.
If there are enough base metals in the ore to make an impact at all.

 

[Nountaineer]

I believe that the 1000 pounds is for an NIS assay costing $1000 that is required by the refinery. I have already proven the values by x-ray and it transfers readily to lead which matches the ore.

 

[Nountaineer]

That could indicate he do not know as much as he believes.

Carbon do not pull PMs out of a smelt, but it may reduce oxides in a smelt and thus liberate metals as collector metal.
If there are enough base metals in the ore to make an impact at all.

Read my posts for ore quality. He said that carbon helps. He calls himself a mining engineer but no degree so far but can setup a mining operation and is a chemistry major in college as well as high school. He is much more knowledgeable than I am. It is his flux recipe that I have tried.

 

[goldshark]

From what I am gathering, you are getting a placer concentrate, that has a high yield of Au and Pt. What and how you cook this down, will depend on the concentrations of metals. The Carbon will reduce oxides to metal, but unless it is almost all Au/Pt, you will still need to add at least some Soda ash, silica sand, and maybe some collector metal, again depending on quantity of readily fusible metals.If you have nothing but Pt oxides, then Carbon only should suffice as the only additive for flux. Since you don't know what exactly the composition is, we can only guess. Just trying to help out a fellow miner. If I am pestering you, say so, and I will write no more replies.

 

[kurtak]

From what I am gathering, you are getting a placer concentrate, that has a high yield of Au and Pt.

Judging by the posts you have previously made, I am assuming you are trying to mix placer concentrates with Copper to act as a collector metal in a smelting operation.

Per the bold print - not sure where you got placer from goldshark as he has clearly posted he is dealing with ore

From his OP ----------

It is a rich jarosite platinum/gold deposit with other PG metals present. I need help with processing this ore.

And from another post ---------

It is very rich, base ore is .03 percent for each metal

And

A jewelry scrap/refinery middle man told me to buy scrap copper and mix my gold/platinum ore into the molten copper in a very hot furnace, make ingots and then sell them. Has anyone else done that ?

And

Read my posts for ore quality

You know a lot more about "ore" then I do goldshark - so I am just bringing this to your attention for clarification so that we are all talking on the same page in our effort to help Nountaineer out

At this point we just don't really have enough info to really help him out - sketchy info at best - so hopefully as this discussion continues he will be able to provide us with better info so that we can better help him

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

I need a good flux recipe and help getting my propane furnace as hot as possible since this is high temperature ore.

Nountaineer - how big is your furnace (what size crucible will fit in it)

Please provide some pictures of your furnace - include close up pics of the burner that fires the furnace

Also (because you are talking PGMs) the furnace does not necessarily need to get hot enough to melt PGMs

When smelting there are things that can be done to lower the melting temp of the PGMs

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

Thank you, the Man who suggested that molten copper is mixed with ore has a dad who works for a major refinery in California and that was his best advice for me. He did not mention flux but a mining engineer type guy that I know said to add some carbon to help pull the pms.

Read my posts for ore quality. He said that carbon helps. He calls himself a mining engineer but no degree so far but can setup a mining operation and is a chemistry major in college as well as high school. He is much more knowledgeable than I am.

Per the bold print in the two above quotes --- I am not sure but one of two things are going on here

Ether the people that are giving you advice are not giving you complete advice

Or - you are not passing all the advice they are giving you on to us

Ether way - without complete advice it makes it hard for us to fully understand just what you are doing &/or how to help you - incomplete advice brings confusion & assumptions to both sides of the discussion (your side & our side)

So the better you can describe things on your side the better it works for all of us

Working though the confusion & assumptions sometimes takes a bit of time (on both sides)

Be assured that we have members here on this forum that are VERY knowledgeable people in the field of precious metal recovery & refining - one of the world best places for information - if not the best place to discuss things in this field

We ARE here to help - it is what we do here everyday - so welcome to THE forum

That said --- carbon it self is not flux - rather - carbon is an ingredient that is added to flux (&/or a smelt)

The carbon acts as a reducing agent in the smelt to reduce metals that are in a state of oxidation

In other words - reduce metals that are not in their pure state - another words metals that are the metal plus something else - such as a metal oxide - or sulfide - or hydroxide - or carbonate (those are all examples of different states of oxidation)

In smelting - if those metals that are in a state of oxidation are not reduced to there actual metal state they will likely be dissolved by the flux & go off into the slag instead of melting & separating from the slag - or if no flux is used they simply will not melt

In smelting - we use different reducing agents - added to our fluxes - to reduce different metals that are in different states of oxidation to their actual metal so that the metals will actually become molten & separate from the flux/slag --- carbon is "one" of those reducing agents used to reduce metal oxides to actual metal

So yes - there is good reason to add carbon to the smelt - but carbon is not flux it self - it is an ingredient added to a flux/smelt

it gets more complicated then that though - especially when smelting complex ores (which you have) because sometimes in the smelt we want some metals to oxidize so they do go off in the slag (base metals) while at the same time reducing some metals (like your PMs) so they become molten & separate from the slag

I highly recommend that you read ALL of this thread about smelting - it will help you to ask better questions to which we can give better answers concerning smelting of your ore

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/smelting.25592/
It is a very long thread but well worth the reading

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

Read my posts for ore quality. He said that carbon helps. He calls himself a mining engineer but no degree so far but can setup a mining operation and is a chemistry major in college as well as high school. He is much more knowledgeable than I am. It is his flux recipe that I have tried.

Can you please provide us with this flux recipe

Kurt

 

[goldshark]

Per the bold print - not sure where you got placer from goldshark as he has clearly posted he is dealing with ore

From his OP ----------

And from another post ---------

And

And


You know a lot more about "ore" then I do goldshark - so I am just bringing this to your attention for clarification so that we are all talking on the same page in our effort to help Nountaineer out

At this point we just don't really have enough info to really help him out - sketchy info at best - so hopefully as this discussion continues he will be able to provide us with better info so that we can better help him

Kurt

Hi Kurt, I PMed him. If he would like to add some info, it is up to him, other than that, I will keep it confidential between he and I.

 

[goldshark]

Per the bold print - not sure where you got placer from goldshark as he has clearly posted he is dealing with ore

From his OP ----------

And from another post ---------

And

And


You know a lot more about "ore" then I do goldshark - so I am just bringing this to your attention for clarification so that we are all talking on the same page in our effort to help Nountaineer out

At this point we just don't really have enough info to really help him out - sketchy info at best - so hopefully as this discussion continues he will be able to provide us with better info so that we can better help him

Kurt

I also wanted to add that "ore" is a mixture of minerals in a paying quantity. So placer concentrates are still considered "ore".