Personal opinion

[NickBrown]

Hello, ALL,

Just had a quick question regarding percipients. I know there’s many many years of experience on this forum. What would you all suggest I use to precipitate AU out of solution that has many other metals ? SMB, Zinc, Ferris sulfate, aluminum and that’s all I really have access to.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hello, ALL,

Just had a quick question regarding percipients. I know there’s many many years of experience on this forum. What would you all suggest I use to precipitate AU out of solution that has many other metals ? SMB, Zinc, Ferris sulfate, aluminum and that’s all I really have access to.

First I'd suggest you do some reading and studies.
There are no such thing as AU.
The case in chemistry is critical so Au would be the term you are looking for.
Ferris is not a chemical therm either so I'm gussing for Ferrous Sulfate.
You have not told us anything on the origin of this solution so can you please enlighten us a bit?
Any of the SMB or Ferrous Sulfate will do as long as the solution is sufficiently acidic.
Zinc and Aluminum are not well suited for cementing from dirty solutions, better use Copper.

 

[NickBrown]

First I'd suggest you do some reading and studies.
There are no such thing as AU.
The case in chemistry is critical so Au would be the term you are looking for.
Ferris is not a chemical therm either so I'm gussing for Ferrous Sulfate.
You have not told us anything on the origin of this solution so can you please enlighten us a bit?
Any of the SMB or Ferrous Sulfate will do as long as the solution is sufficiently acidic.
Zinc and Aluminum are not well suited for cementing from dirty solutions, better use Copper.

I apologize, I was using talk text.

I reverse electroplated about 3-4 pounds of e-waste with a sulfuric cell.
Decanted and washed several times until all that was left was clumped together fine black gold particles.
I dissolve with aqua Regia , checked solution with PMD (strannous) results being dark brown to black. I have tried SMB before with no luck. Solution turns black and after several day I gave up on waiting for it to settle.
I then back tracked with aqua Regia and filtered . Now I have a semi gold colored solution with ph 7-8 .
I was going to drop with SMB again but as I have been reading Hokes printable version of her book (Thanks FrugalRefiner) I read that using zinc or Ferrous sulfate or even potassium are much more specific when precipitating Au.
I am new to refining for personal use and apologize if I do not know exactly what all the processes are YET!! I thought that is why there was a beginner thread..

 

[Yggdrasil]

I apologize, I was using talk text.

I reverse electroplated about 3-4 pounds of e-waste with a sulfuric cell.
Decanted and washed several times until all that was left was clumped together fine black gold particles.
I dissolve with aqua Regia , checked solution with PMD (strannous) results being dark brown to black. I have tried SMB before with no luck. Solution turns black and after several day I gave up on waiting for it to settle.
I then back tracked with aqua Regia and filtered . Now I have a semi gold colored solution with ph 7-8 .
I was going to drop with SMB again but as I have been reading Hokes printable version of her book (Thanks FrugalRefiner) I read that using zinc or Ferrous sulfate or even potassium are much more specific when precipitating Au.
I am new to refining for personal use and apologize if I do not know exactly what all the processes are YET!! I thought that is why there was a beginner thread..

I'd suggest you park your solutions for a while while you study.

A couple of questions though.
How do you prepare your AR?
What kind of E-waste was it?
How in the world did Stannous get to become PMD?
Dark brown is considered a so called false positive.
How in the world did you manage to get a AR solution to become 7-8 in pH?
At this pH no SMB will help, it need to be at least 4 but better in the 1-2 range.
Zinc and Copper can be used , but the solution will have to be acidic for that too.
Zinc is not recommended for dirty solutions as it will drop all, while Copper will only drop what is precious.

This is the beginners section but that do not exempt the new comer from doing their own studies.
We will help and guide you on the way.

 

[Martijn]

Hello, ALL,

Just had a quick question regarding percipients. I know there’s many many years of experience on this forum. What would you all suggest I use to precipitate AU out of solution that has many other metals ? SMB, Zinc, Ferris sulfate, aluminum and that’s all I really have access to.

while we're discussing correct chemical notation:
did you mean precipitant in stead of:

per·cipi·ent
[pəˈsɪpɪənt]
adjective

1. having good insight or understanding; perceptive:
   "he is a percipient interpreter of the public mood"

 

[Shark]

Study is needed here but to help point you in the right direction, somewhat. Ferrous Sulfate, Copperas and Iron Sulfate can be/is the same thing. In my opinion it is better on dirty solutions, but can be dependant on what is in that solution. SMB, Sodium Metabisulfite, will work also, how well depends, again, on what is in solution.

 

[4metals]

I am new to refining for personal use and apologize if I do not know exactly what all the processes are YET!! I thought that is why there was a beginner thread..

You are absolutely correct about why there is a beginners forum. Usually when one signs on to the forum the first posts we review are the latest posts because they come up when you are in the first screen. Unless we look to see what forum it was posted in we don't know it was a beginners forum.

But I agree we should be much more forgiving on posts in the beginners forum because you are here to learn and not to receive criticism.

 

[NickBrown]

I want to thank you for the little advice you gave me in the refining gold question I asked and even thank you even more for the belittling you unleashed. I only hope it makes you feel like the big bad chemist you are !! FYI , I have been reading the post and Hokes book for the last 3 months before I got up the nerve to ask a simple question on others preferred method for precipitating ((Au)) out of solution.. If I wanted to open myself up for ridicule I would have started my post with HELP —- —- . I was only trying to figure out who I would click with so I could ask more technical question.
Once again I appreciate the grammar and life suggestions you made but if that is what this newbie will be getting from you I encourage you to refrain from making any other suggestion to me. Not a fan of keyboard warriors sorry .

 

[NickBrown]

I'd suggest you park your solutions for a while while you study.

A couple of questions though.
How do you prepare your AR?
What kind of E-waste was it?
How in the world did Stannous get to become PMD?
Dark brown is considered a so called false positive.
How in the world did you manage to get a AR solution to become 7-8 in pH?
At this pH no SMB will help, it need to be at least 4 but better in the 1-2 range.
Zinc and Copper can be used , but the solution will have to be acidic for that too.
Zinc is not recommended for dirty solutions as it will drop all, while Copper will only drop what is precious.

This is the beginners section but that do not exempt the new comer from doing their own studies.
We will help and guide you on the way.

I made AR 3-1 ratio with 67% nitric and 68.55% Muriatic.
After dissolving what I thought was Au I then filtered and used distilled water to spay through them remnants on filter.
I now have a star nous test showing dark purple to black. PMD=precious metal detection. I apologize I read that in several other books . Is that incorrect? I really don’t know , but I will refrain from using it here.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I made AR 3-1 ratio with 67% nitric and 68.55% Muriatic.
After dissolving what I thought was Au I then filtered and used distilled water to spay through them remnants on filter.
I now have a star nous test showing dark purple to black. PMD=precious metal detection. I apologize I read that in several other books . Is that incorrect? I really don’t know , but I will refrain from using it here.

Well there is one of your mistakes.
Never premix AR.
Add sufficient HCl(Muriatic) then add slowly a little by little Nitric.
This way you will need much less work to decompose the excess Nitric.
What is a star nous test?
Did you buy this so called PMD test ready to use?
We make it ourself by dissolving Tin in HCl and it is called a Stannous test.
Or a Stannous Chloride test.
Can you answer the other questions I had to?
Like what kind of e-waste how was it treated in detail and so on.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I want to thank you for the little advice you gave me in the refining gold question I asked and even thank you even more for the belittling you unleashed. I only hope it makes you feel like the big bad chemist you are !! FYI , I have been reading the post and Hokes book for the last 3 months before I got up the nerve to ask a simple question on others preferred method for precipitating ((Au)) out of solution.. If I wanted to open myself up for ridicule I would have started my post with HELP —- —- . I was only trying to figure out who I would click with so I could ask more technical question.
Once again I appreciate the grammar and life suggestions you made but if that is what this newbie will be getting from you I encourage you to refrain from making any other suggestion to me. Not a fan of keyboard warriors sorry .

If you make mistakes you will be corrected. This hobby is way to dangerous not to.
And we do NOT pamper bruised feelings of the same reason.
We will however guide you on your path to be a refiner of sorts.
If you have the stamina for it

 

[Master Nater]

sounds like it's about time for my return.......

this guy did not deserve the disrespect you all just shoveled on him.

 

[4metals]

PMD=precious metal detection. I apologize I read that in several other books . Is that incorrect?

I have personally never used the term PMD for stannous chloride although technically that is what it is because in addition to detecting gold in solution, it can detect other precious metals once the dark masking color of gold has been removed from solution. But just because it is not used here on the forum doesn't make it incorrect.

A dark purple to black stain is indicative of gold in an aqua regia solution.

What would you all suggest I use to precipitate AU out of solution that has many other metals ? SMB, Zinc, Ferris sulfate, aluminum and that’s all I really have access to.

Zinc and aluminum would not drop clean gold from solution they would simply drop the metals with a higher electrode potential. Aluminum has a higher electrode potential than zinc so it would even drop more metals out of solution than zinc. That process is called cementation and the best metal for cementation of precious metals is copper. Because copper sits just above the precious metals on an electromotive series chart. (not totally true, mercury is also below copper but it is rarely encountered when refining the scrap we normally see.)

That leaves SMB, or sodium metabisulfite, or ferrous sulfate. Dirty solutions are best treated with ferrous sulfate and cleaner solutions with metabisulfite.

You said you mixed your aqua regia 3:1 which classically is the way it was made. And Ms Hoke used it that way in her book. But when pre mixing aqua regia, it is easy to add too much extra nitric acid which has to be dealt with before the gold will drop out of solution. Slow measured small additions of nitric added until the reaction stops is preferred.

I taught refining to many refiners over the years for a living and I have learned that feeding folks information they can use in a way they can understand and use it beneficially invariably produces better refiners. On the other hand calling someone who is trying to help you a big bad chemist doesn't win you any brownie points either. If you can just accept some of the information you are given, which ultimately is to help you solve your refining dilemma, you will benefit in the long run.

 

[NickBrown]

Well there is one of your mistakes.
Never premix AR.
Add sufficient HCl(Muriatic) then add slowly a little by little Nitric.
This way you will need much less work to decompose the excess Nitric.
What is a star nous test?
Did you buy this so called PMD test ready to use?
We make it ourself by dissolving Tin in HCl and it is called a Stannous test.
Or a Stannous Chloride test.
Can you answer the other questions I had to?
Like what kind of e-waste how was it treated in detail and so on.

Sorry , strannous . My screen on my phone broke a few days ago and my new phone should be here tomorrow. That’s the reasoning behind all the misspellings and grammar, I can only see half of my screen.
I did ration out the nitric. I put 150ml of HCI and 10ml nitric to start and then added 10ml each time the reaction slowed or stopped to a total of 50ml nitric.
The E scrap is from heavy coded gold pins from industrial equipment and also some Goldfingers from circuit boards. I used a sulfuric cell reverse electro plating.
I made my own Strannous from tin solder and HCI.

 

[NickBrown]

I have personally never used the term PMD for stannous chloride although technically that is what it is because in addition to detecting gold in solution, it can detect other precious metals once the dark masking color of gold has been removed from solution. But just because it is not used here on the forum doesn't make it incorrect.

A dark purple to black stain is indicative of gold in an aqua regia solution.

Zinc and aluminum would not drop clean gold from solution they would simply drop the metals with a higher electrode potential. Aluminum has a higher electrode potential than zinc so it would even drop more metals out of solution than zinc. That process is called cementation and the best metal for cementation of precious metals is copper. Because copper sits just above the precious metals on an electromotive series chart. (not totally true, mercury is also below copper but it is rarely encountered when refining the scrap we normally see.)

That leaves SMB, or sodium metabisulfite, or ferrous sulfate. Dirty solutions are best treated with ferrous sulfate and cleaner solutions with metabisulfite.

You said you mixed your aqua regia 3:1 which classically is the way it was made. And Ms Hoke used it that way in her book. But when pre mixing aqua regia, it is easy to add too much extra nitric acid which has to be dealt with before the gold will drop out of solution. Slow measured small additions of nitric added until the reaction stops is preferred.

I taught refining to many refiners over the years for a living and I have learned that feeding folks information they can use in a way they can understand and use it beneficially invariably produces better refiners. On the other hand calling someone who is trying to help you a big bad chemist doesn't win you any brownie points either. If you can just accept some of the information you are given, which ultimately is to help you solve your refining dilemma, you will benefit in the long run.

I want to apologize, I am typically not a person to get riled up, but I am also not used to being the newbie . I work in Industrial mining and have for 16 years and could very easily tell you the process and the formula in a large scale for work but doing it on my own at home as a hobby I am completely unfamiliar with.. So I hope you take my apology and appreciate the information and I agree delivery of that information is crucial because I am a man and I do have an ego haha sorry buddy

 

[NickBrown]

Sorry , strannous . My screen on my phone broke a few days ago and my new phone should be here tomorrow. That’s the reasoning behind all the misspellings and grammar, I can only see half of my screen.
I did ration out the nitric. I put 150ml of HCI and 10ml nitric to start and then added 10ml each time the reaction slowed or stopped to a total of 50ml nitric.
The E scrap is from heavy coded gold pins from industrial equipment and also some Goldfingers from circuit boards. I used a sulfuric cell reverse electro plating.
I made my own Strannous from tin solder and HCI.

 

[nickvc]

You seem to be heading the right way and in time I’m sure you will make a competent refiner , you will have to forgive what seems like we are picking on you but this is one very serious and potentially dangerous activity and if you stay around long enough you will perhaps understand why we nit pick , many members do not have English as their first language which means they have to use translators to follow threads which as I’m sure you understand can cause potential disasters if words are spelled incorrectly or the wrong term is used.

 

[Yggdrasil]

sounds like it's about time for my return.......

this guy did not deserve the disrespect you all just shoveled on him.

Can you please show us what kind of disrepect you are referring to?
Simple corrections on factual mistakes has nothing with disrespect to do.
That is just something that needs to be done.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Next time, get some gloves on your hands please.

 

[Martijn]

I apologize if my reply came across a bit harsh. That was not my intention.
in chemistry, the use of correct terms is very important as one letter can mean a completely different compound or reaction.
For reference we have a usefull list of common terms, so we all speak the same language.
It happens to us all, try to read your post before you post it, I often make the mistake of HCL instead of the correct HCl e.g.
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/a-glossary-of-common-terms.23400/

And welcome to the forum.