ok i have done about 2 pounds of pins now all turned out great now i have a full pound in a a 3gallon bucket acid is hcl+peroxide on a 2to1 mixture here u go 3 cups hcl to 1 and half peroxide now its been 2 days and i have stirred numerous times and a little gold has come off but about 95% is still on the pins any help would be nice thank you fafrd (matt) oh yea should also say the acid is dark gray more than likely green but the bucket is green too
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Non-Chemical PINS REFINING
- Thread starter taborc
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aflacglobal
Well-known member
The pins are magnetic.alexmaywood said:
I'm just guessing here. Don't hold me to it.
If all the gold is off the pins. Could a magnet be used to pull the steel pins up the side of the jar and out of the acid. Not in the acid, but outside the jar to guide them out. Then filter what is left. Even if you didn't get all gold off the first time, These could be re run to recover what might be remaining. Sort of like classifying it down.
Ralph
Matt,
If I understand you correctly the liquid is gray as opposed to green. This is a good sign that you have too much HCl in the mix. Can you post a picture so I can see into the bucket and a photo of the source material (pins). I can help you better with a good photo or two.
Steve
If I understand you correctly the liquid is gray as opposed to green. This is a good sign that you have too much HCl in the mix. Can you post a picture so I can see into the bucket and a photo of the source material (pins). I can help you better with a good photo or two.
Steve
Dog Biscuit
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2007
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- 55
alexmaywood said:
From one newbie to another: Try filtering off the acid. Rinse pins with acid and filter. Place pins in flat pyrex dish and remove with magnet or tweezers. Good luck.
Cody,
Did you add peroxide to the jars? If not this is pretty common for HCl to turn yellow after standing. Try adding a small cap full or two of 3% peroxide with stirring to one of the jars and let us know what happens in that jar.
Steve
Did you add peroxide to the jars? If not this is pretty common for HCl to turn yellow after standing. Try adding a small cap full or two of 3% peroxide with stirring to one of the jars and let us know what happens in that jar.
Steve
i added some peroxide and the jar almost immediately turned a light shade of green. im guessing this is what i should have done in the first place. i think i read somewhere on the forum that this could dissolve some gold. so im guessing check with stannous or see if any precips with a little smb?
Cody
Cody
If you don't heat it you should be okay. Testing is always a must.
Champ,
Try adding some more peroxide periodically, this will speed things up. Stirring helps a lot also. If you have larger batches of loose pins the solution can take quite some time. Pins are best processed by other means unless they are still in the header plastic. The plastic keeps the pins from blocking the soluton from etching the gold surface. When all the pins are loose, they form a protective barrier to the gold by pressing against each other. The solution needs to be in contact with the gold plate to etch it away from the copper.
Steve
Try adding some more peroxide periodically, this will speed things up. Stirring helps a lot also. If you have larger batches of loose pins the solution can take quite some time. Pins are best processed by other means unless they are still in the header plastic. The plastic keeps the pins from blocking the soluton from etching the gold surface. When all the pins are loose, they form a protective barrier to the gold by pressing against each other. The solution needs to be in contact with the gold plate to etch it away from the copper.
Steve
Dog Biscuit
Well-known member
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champ110,
I just finished my first one pound batch of wire wrap pins. It was a long story. Here goes: Started with straight HCl and periodic heat - waited four days - no action. Got bored and added peroxide. Bubbles but not much to show on the pins. Added heat to a boil and cooked it for several hours. Drained yellow-green acid and notice about half the pins were stripped and absolutely no gold flakes. I drained and filtered the acid and put the pins in water to soak for about a week while I tried to decide what to do. After reading some of these posts, I mixed up another batch of AP and tried again (no heat). In about another week, most of the pins were disolved and there were lots of gold flakes. I filtered this material and transfered it to a smaller container, added a small amount of AP, and 24 hour later the pins were done. I used about a gallon of HCl for this batch. Subsequently, I was able to recover the missing gold from the first acid with sodium sulfite.
I just finished my first one pound batch of wire wrap pins. It was a long story. Here goes: Started with straight HCl and periodic heat - waited four days - no action. Got bored and added peroxide. Bubbles but not much to show on the pins. Added heat to a boil and cooked it for several hours. Drained yellow-green acid and notice about half the pins were stripped and absolutely no gold flakes. I drained and filtered the acid and put the pins in water to soak for about a week while I tried to decide what to do. After reading some of these posts, I mixed up another batch of AP and tried again (no heat). In about another week, most of the pins were disolved and there were lots of gold flakes. I filtered this material and transfered it to a smaller container, added a small amount of AP, and 24 hour later the pins were done. I used about a gallon of HCl for this batch. Subsequently, I was able to recover the missing gold from the first acid with sodium sulfite.
P_CARROLL
Well-known member
I use 2 liters fo HCl to 1 pound of pins and heat it in a crock pot. Usually takes 2 baths to dissolve the base metals.
Noxx
Well-known member
No, HCl can't be recovered. The HCl digests bases metals and transforms them into Chlorides (I think).
mike.fortin
Well-known member
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- Mar 20, 2007
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hilld2000 said:
Hilld2000-- I dont like spending acid money eather. My plan is to drop out all base metals in acid like lazersteve said. Then I plan to put solution into a bucket with parts Im not in big hurry to get results from like I am fingers. If no more stuff disolves after 10 days I plan to discard. Hope my plan makes economic sense. Let me know if Im wrong guys. Mike.
HillD2K said:
Noxx is right the HCl becomes metal chlorides. The important thing to note about the chlorides formed is that some are actually better at dissolving certain base metals (ie: copper) than HCl is! :shock:
If you read the Copper Chloride document on my website you can see that Copper Chloride (formed when AP dissolves copper from pins and fingers) can be regenerated back from the spent form (CuCl= cuprous chloride) to the active copper hunger form (CuCl2= cupric chloride) by simply bubbling air thru the solution. Another method is to add more peroxide as I demonstrated several times in the Acid Peroxide Tutorial.
Once you drop the copper out off the solution you will need more HCl to reform the CuCl2. So if you want to reuse your AP solution just don't drop the copper and bubble air thru it. It will lighten to a nearly clear green/blue color and be ready to eat more copper metal.
You may need to add a small amount of HCl if the acid level gets too low in the solution, but I've actually used just CuCl2 crystals, Peroxide, and water to etch fingers before. You can make your own crystals by evaporating the emerald green AP solution when your fingers are done. You should filter it good before evaporating.
The reason I drop my copper is that over time the solution continually is growing due to the amount of copper it is absorbing. You end up with a greater volume of solution than you started with. :shock: You'll have so much copper chloride on hand you have to find a way to get rid of it!!! Trouble with Tribbles I guess!!! :lol:
Here's the science behind the reaction:
Copper(II) dissolving Copper Metal (0) = 2 Copper (I)
Cu(++) + Cu(0) = 2Cu(+)
and the simplified regeration step which requires H+ (acid) and Air 2O:
4Cu(+) + 2O + 4H(+) = 4Cu(++) +2H2O
Notice the extra water on the right side.
The Cu++ is charged positive 2 and attracts the lower charged Cu+ into the solution. The energy required to do this is lost from the Cu++ and it becomes Cu+. When all the Cu++ are used up you need to rejuvenate them.
This is a very simpified example of a more complicated reaction, but you all should get the point. The Cu++ is doing the etching and needs to be rejuvenated occasionally with oxygen.
Steve
aflacglobal
Well-known member
Once you drop the copper out off the solution you will need more HCl to reform the CuCl2. So if you want to reuse your AP solution just don't drop the copper and bubble air thru it. It will lighten to a nearly clear green/blue color and be ready to eat more copper metal.
Steve, Is that suppose to be just drop the copper, instead of don't, like written.
Ralph
Steve, Is that suppose to be just drop the copper, instead of don't, like written.
Ralph
Ralph,
It is correct as written. If you want to reuse the AP don't drop the copper out. You'll end up using more HCl to redissolve the copper you drop out to form more CuCl2.
Steve
It is correct as written. If you want to reuse the AP don't drop the copper out. You'll end up using more HCl to redissolve the copper you drop out to form more CuCl2.
Steve
aflacglobal
Well-known member
So if you want to reuse your AP solution just don't drop the copper and bubble air thru it
I guess it's the way i read it. It 's kind of confusing. Maybe like this. :arrow: So if you want to reuse your AP solution don't drop the copper, just bubble air thru it.
I'm slow.
I guess it's the way i read it. It 's kind of confusing. Maybe like this. :arrow: So if you want to reuse your AP solution don't drop the copper, just bubble air thru it.
I'm slow.
I see what you mean Ralph. I should have left the 'just' out completely.
Steve
Steve
