A
Anonymous
Guest
You are right,and that is certainly a possibility.Although I doubt I would have missed that much gold the first time around,but anything is possible.patnor1011 said:
Process for crushing IC/CPU's
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patnor1011
Well-known member
You once said you bought some processed cpu so maybe that was from somebody else's hurried process who knows... Or just some small gold precipitated on some dissolved base metals from pins... Just thinking.
It is the leaching process I cannot get my head around. Unless you can get a 100% leach that is verifiable, then 100 % recovery of the leach from the powder, some, maybe a lot of A/u may be left behind.
Arthur discovered his process was leaving a lot behind. $20 grand worth on the volume of material he had processed. I don't know if he has figured out yet if the leach was fail or the leach recovery from the powder was fail.
If you have a good leach but cannot recover all the metals bearing liquor, you have fail. Obversly if you get good liquid recovery but a weak or incomplete leach....fail.
The only thing that would help is a testing regimen to validate each step of the process before moving on to the next step.
I have much material of the right sort to process following the leach system but I have not figured out how to qualify each step properly with the resources available to me. The biggest road block for me has always been how to "squeeze the powder dry" of metals bearing leach. To my mind if it is still wet it still contains values. There are too many minor details in the process that I do not have an answer to yet to proceed with the material.
I am of the opinion that those of us who have cracked the mystery are playing their cards close to their chest. (Rightly so)
Prices these materials go for can not all be blue sky, someone ,somewhere has solved the puzzle.
To add to the dilemma there will be variations in the same type of ceramics as well as variations in the various types of ceramics and variations in those sub groups. It would take a lot of processing of 1 type just to quantify the variations in a particular type, let alone for each other type and so on.
Arthur did have success with a SSN leach to recover considerable value from previously processed material. All his waste tested barren before the SSN leach. Although the likelihood that his material IS now barren, how can he (WE) be sure.
I guess you could have an assay of each lot, properly sampled, then keep hammering at the material with processes and chemicals until you reach the assay expectations. I guess that would get you close to full recovery, At least you would know what to expect and keep at it till you got it all.
There are a few mysteries to solve here and I am sure the answers are all to be found right here on the board.
I plan on working this out in the new year. 8) Just a few thoughts. If I get any answers I will share
Arthur discovered his process was leaving a lot behind. $20 grand worth on the volume of material he had processed. I don't know if he has figured out yet if the leach was fail or the leach recovery from the powder was fail.
If you have a good leach but cannot recover all the metals bearing liquor, you have fail. Obversly if you get good liquid recovery but a weak or incomplete leach....fail.
The only thing that would help is a testing regimen to validate each step of the process before moving on to the next step.
I have much material of the right sort to process following the leach system but I have not figured out how to qualify each step properly with the resources available to me. The biggest road block for me has always been how to "squeeze the powder dry" of metals bearing leach. To my mind if it is still wet it still contains values. There are too many minor details in the process that I do not have an answer to yet to proceed with the material.
I am of the opinion that those of us who have cracked the mystery are playing their cards close to their chest. (Rightly so)
Prices these materials go for can not all be blue sky, someone ,somewhere has solved the puzzle.
To add to the dilemma there will be variations in the same type of ceramics as well as variations in the various types of ceramics and variations in those sub groups. It would take a lot of processing of 1 type just to quantify the variations in a particular type, let alone for each other type and so on.
Arthur did have success with a SSN leach to recover considerable value from previously processed material. All his waste tested barren before the SSN leach. Although the likelihood that his material IS now barren, how can he (WE) be sure.
I guess you could have an assay of each lot, properly sampled, then keep hammering at the material with processes and chemicals until you reach the assay expectations. I guess that would get you close to full recovery, At least you would know what to expect and keep at it till you got it all.
There are a few mysteries to solve here and I am sure the answers are all to be found right here on the board.
I plan on working this out in the new year. 8) Just a few thoughts. If I get any answers I will share
A
Anonymous
Guest
I have assayed leached,and pre-leached powder,and recovered gold on the pre-leached,and nothing on the leached.But do understand that when I grind my ceramics,I am doing about 20 pounds of various types at once.So there is no way to differentiate between one kind and another kind.I guess I could run 10 pounds of just one kind,and assay before,then leach,then test the post leached powder.But I would not have time to deal with that for some time.glondor said:
GoldSilverPro,
I have heard you say before,that you do not believe there is gold contained within the substrate.Have you checked any with an XRF?If not I know of a place locally that owns a gun and I could have them shoot a few for me.Actually I may just set aside some time on thursday to do that.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Here is what GoldSilverPro had to say about it.Very interesting reading for sure.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6713&hilit=ceramic+substrate#p59905
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6713&hilit=ceramic+substrate#p59905
A
Anonymous
Guest
1997
http://www.ltcc.de/en/whatis.php
http://www.ltcc.de/en/whatis.php
Barren Realms 007
In Remembrance
I use a mill that will hold about 60-80 lbs of material plus around 45-50lbs of hardend steel bolts to crush the media at a rate of about 1.5 to 2 lbs per hour of running time of fine crushed powder the consistency of talcum powder produced. This material is sifted thru a screen and the larger pieces are rerun thru the mill.
I use a large electic griddle that I put a stainless steel pot on big enough to put a 5 gal plastic bucket in. I put a couple of bricks in the bottom of the metal pot and set the plastic bucket on top of the bricks. I put 2-3 lbs of sodium nitrate in the bucket and then add 1 gal of HCL and 1/2 gal of hot tap water. I fill to metal pot with hot water and turn the griddle on 400F (this keeps the water temperature just under boiling temp) and heat the solution to dissolve the sodium nitrate.
Once everything is dissolved into the solution I use an 8oz plastic cup and put 2-4 cups of powder into the solution and let it work on the powder till very little NOX gas action exists. Sprinkle to powder over the top of the liquid as you add it, the bubbles produced will help suspend the powder on top and as the bubbles bust the powder will drop down tru the solution and get a better reaction with the solution. If you just dump the cup of powder into the solution at one time you can cause a violent reaction with the possability of a boil over. Do not stir this till the NOX gas has subsided at that point you can stir the solution, after the NOX fumes subside add another charge of powder and repeat the process. Your solution will turn a bright orange or reddish color as the process progresses. After your 4-5 set of charges of powder into your solution slowly add your powder to check for NOX emissions if they are subsiding with the addition of the powder your solution is almost used up. If a white precipitate starts to float and is hard to settle it is also time to stop addition of powder. If you go too far with the addition of powder you will see your solution turn black and every thing in solution will cement out and test negative for PM's and you will need to reprocess the powder in new solution.
After you have done this process on 4 loads siphon off your solution's into one bucket and cement out everything in the solution with the addition of a copper pipe or sheet. When your soltion test negative for PM's remove the copper and let everything settle and then siphon off the solution. Wash the sediment in water till your water is clear, allowing sediment to settle between washes. After your sediment is clean process the material in your favorite fassion.
Always try to remove any of the copper tungsten heat sinks from your chips before processing them thru your mill.
I use a large electic griddle that I put a stainless steel pot on big enough to put a 5 gal plastic bucket in. I put a couple of bricks in the bottom of the metal pot and set the plastic bucket on top of the bricks. I put 2-3 lbs of sodium nitrate in the bucket and then add 1 gal of HCL and 1/2 gal of hot tap water. I fill to metal pot with hot water and turn the griddle on 400F (this keeps the water temperature just under boiling temp) and heat the solution to dissolve the sodium nitrate.
Once everything is dissolved into the solution I use an 8oz plastic cup and put 2-4 cups of powder into the solution and let it work on the powder till very little NOX gas action exists. Sprinkle to powder over the top of the liquid as you add it, the bubbles produced will help suspend the powder on top and as the bubbles bust the powder will drop down tru the solution and get a better reaction with the solution. If you just dump the cup of powder into the solution at one time you can cause a violent reaction with the possability of a boil over. Do not stir this till the NOX gas has subsided at that point you can stir the solution, after the NOX fumes subside add another charge of powder and repeat the process. Your solution will turn a bright orange or reddish color as the process progresses. After your 4-5 set of charges of powder into your solution slowly add your powder to check for NOX emissions if they are subsiding with the addition of the powder your solution is almost used up. If a white precipitate starts to float and is hard to settle it is also time to stop addition of powder. If you go too far with the addition of powder you will see your solution turn black and every thing in solution will cement out and test negative for PM's and you will need to reprocess the powder in new solution.
After you have done this process on 4 loads siphon off your solution's into one bucket and cement out everything in the solution with the addition of a copper pipe or sheet. When your soltion test negative for PM's remove the copper and let everything settle and then siphon off the solution. Wash the sediment in water till your water is clear, allowing sediment to settle between washes. After your sediment is clean process the material in your favorite fassion.
Always try to remove any of the copper tungsten heat sinks from your chips before processing them thru your mill.
arthur kierski
Well-known member
Glondor---i think that in my case ,the pre-treatment of the powder failed--since a lot of pms stayed in the powder--- by pre- treatment,i mean crushing,sieving,separating magnetics---- so when this powder was processed pms were cemented on base metals----as i mentioned in my thread,i will after doing the traditional leach(ar,etc),do finally the ssn leach----------i also think that if the material is still wet,there might be pms in the wet powder------i use a very stong vacuum buchner filter pump where i throw all the leached solution with the powder and wash the powder until the liquid filtered is white(clear water-no collour)and the powder left in the filter is almost dry(humid)
by the way----i will do a 2nd leach in the powder that i found gold----my shock was great
regards to all
Arthur
by the way----i will do a 2nd leach in the powder that i found gold----my shock was great
regards to all
Arthur
Does anyone have proof that any of the ceramic CPUs have gold between the ceramic layers? If so, which ones?
samuel-a
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2009
- Messages
- 2,190
goldsilverpro said:
I broke many hundreds of them during the years, many different types of ceramics packages and inspected each with a jewelers loupe.
Never found gold traces or wires...
(can't say that i checked ALL types of cpu's, but enough to let me know not to look anymore)
A
Anonymous
Guest
If there is no gold between the ceramic layers,then the gold we are recovering the second time around,must be gold that we missed the first time around?
niteliteone
Well-known member
If there are no gold wires in the ceramic then what are they connecting the CPU to the pins with. :?:
Looking into the cpu socket I can see the gold traces connecting the cpu to something inside the ceramic package that leads to the pins.
Could those thin gold traces extend all the way to the pins :?:
That would explain why no wires are found.
Don't know, just a thought.
Tom C.
Looking into the cpu socket I can see the gold traces connecting the cpu to something inside the ceramic package that leads to the pins.
Could those thin gold traces extend all the way to the pins :?:
That would explain why no wires are found.
Don't know, just a thought.
Tom C.
niteliteone said:
I think there are gold wires in at least some of the fiber CPUs but not in the ceramic ones. I think that, in all or most of the multilayer ceramic packages, the center layer contains thick film traces usually composed of Mo, Mo-Mn, or W. These thick film pastes and the ceramic layers themselves contain a glass frit. When the green ceramic (imprinted with the traces) is then assembled and fired, the glass melts, bonds everything together, and produces a total seal of the layers. The internal Mo, Mo-Mn, or W makes up the traces (which are connected to the legs), the IC pad, and the internal wire bonding fingers. After firing, the package is plated as desired.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I had a video on my old computer that showed what happened when I dropped stannous on powder that had been sitting in AR for days.When the stannous hit the solution,there was no reaction,but if you tilted the bucket just enough to expose the powder,then dropped a drop of stannous on it,it turned black instantly.It made no sense whatsoever.If the gold,precipitated on the powder,then there should be no reaction,either in the liquid,or on the powder.But I had a video to prove it.I think I need to make another one and post it.
On some of the very old white side-braze CPUs, you can actually see (barely) the Mo-Mn traces through the thin top ceramic layer. Check the 2nd photo in the first link and the 1st photo in the second link.
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/8086/index.html
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/4004/index.html
Here's a better shot of the 4004. I think this package has 2 layers of ceramic, whereas most of the others have 3.
http://www.cpu-museum.com/Bilder/Intel-C4004_1a.jpg
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/8086/index.html
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/4004/index.html
Here's a better shot of the 4004. I think this package has 2 layers of ceramic, whereas most of the others have 3.
http://www.cpu-museum.com/Bilder/Intel-C4004_1a.jpg
qst42know
Well-known member
Where do these fall on a cementation table?
Is it possible any secondary recovery could be attributed to cementation to these traces?
Gold wires in a ceramic package wouldn't survive the firing process would it?
Is it possible any secondary recovery could be attributed to cementation to these traces?
Gold wires in a ceramic package wouldn't survive the firing process would it?
A
Anonymous
Guest
If it is an assay,yes.When I tried to incinerate a batch,all of the powder stuck together like a rock.qst42know said:
Maybe, but I tend to doubt it.
They would probably survive the firing but I would think there would be leakage. With the pastes, the glass melts and seals everything. The fiber/resin packages are a different story, since the resin would conform to the wires and produce a good seal. For longevity of the circuit, sealing is all important in the internal structure of these packages. Basically, with the ceramic packages, they strive to end up with as close to a monolithic unit as possible. Monolithic chip capacitors are made similarly - metal paste, glass, and ceramic. Glass is the glue that bonds everything together in the ceramic packages.
qst42know
Well-known member
I doesn't make sense to include gold wires which may lead to ceramic package failures if a conductive non-precious paste smeared into molded tracks serve well.
