Processing Fingers with CuCl2 etching solution

[Geo]

You can't rinse acid from solids with just water. Look at my post above this one. The residual nitric acid in the powders was enough to put the powder back into solution. If you are following Harold's directions, you forgot to heat the powder to a dull red heat. Next time, heat the powders after they are dry and then do the washes and rinses.

 

[purgatory]

This was the stannous test, please have a look.
Let me explain, after I recovered precipitated gold, I boiled it wit water and rinsed.
Then I boiled it in hcl and water what Harold suggests, for a long period of time.
I realized that the solution's colour has changed to the same yellow colour when I dissolved gold in Aqua Regia. There was no gold powder which I stated it with and was dissolved in hcl and water boil. (I think, there is a problem in my de-ionized water, I'm not sure).
I repeated the neutralization process with Sulfamic Acid and there was no reaction upon it's addition, I moved further to precipitate gold with SMB, and see this is what happened, gold precipitated in it's own real shiny golden colour in the form of minutes flakes/foils.
I dont know what is going on, please have a look and advise,
Thank you

Alvi

 

[purgatory]

Geo you're talking about the precipitated gold powder?
Do I need to even heat this precipitated gold to a dull red?

Please note: I wrongly typed water instead of gold, that is why eddited.

 

[g_axelsson]

Goran, I added 35 ml of hcl 30% and 4 ml of nitric acid 60%. Additional water was added upon rinsing the filter and the beaker, I have consumed a lot of water in rinsing them I presume. Or what else I did wrong to increase the solution?

Hi Alvi,

the reason I asked was to know if you had used the classical proportions of 3:1 to 4:1 HCl:HNO₃ of aqua regia. You have a lot of excess HCl but that doesn't hurt the process and you didn't add extremely much nitric acid, although you probably only used up half of it or less.
I have no experience of sulfamic use but I remember that there is a certain amount of sulfamic to neutralize a ml of nitric. It is easy to calculate the maximum amount that you would need and never add more than that. That will keep you from making a big mess. Many people just adds more chemicals if it doesn't react as they were expecting.

Nice to hear you got your gold out... now you're hooked! :mrgreen:

... oh, just read it redissolved again. That's strange. I leave it to the other guys, you're in good hands and I'm sure you will find your gold again.

Göran

 

[purgatory]

Goran, it's good to have your humurous post, it made me feel good though. You know Goran, I'm surprised to see the gold precipitated 2nd time in the shiny golden colour, It was re-dissolved and then precipitated in this form, do you have any idea what is this all about?

Alvi

 

[g_axelsson]

For me almost every drop is unique and it's always a bit of magic. Sometimes it drops in a strange way without any explanation. Just enjoy it. 8)

(In other words, I don't know! :shock: )

Göran

 

[Geo]

In this instance, where you knew you had free nitric in solution, the precipitated gold was contaminated with residual nitric acid. You can boil the powder in a water rinse and still not remove the nitric acid contamination. Like I said before, you can not rinse acid from anything using just water. Powder will hold more of this nitric acid contamination than one solid piece. From wiki :Coprecipitation. There are three main mechanisms of coprecipitation: inclusion, occlusion, and adsorption.[3] An inclusion occurs when the impurity occupies a lattice site in the crystal structure of the carrier, resulting in a crystallographic defect; this can happen when the ionic radius and charge of the impurity are similar to those of the carrier. An adsorbate is an impurity that is weakly bound (adsorbed) to the surface of the precipitate. An occlusion occurs when an adsorbed impurity gets physically trapped inside the crystal as it grows.

So, the nitric acid is absorbed into the precipitated gold powder. A good roasting would have removed this nitric acid contamination.

 

[purgatory]

Goran, likewise.... For me each and every step of this quest is unique and interesting because at the end I'm gaining productive knowledge, you know about productive knowledge, let me share something with you, see when I was staying in between mountains in the middle of the jungle in order to search the alchemical secrets, I got along with a lot of people who were finding the same treasure which 98 percent so called alchemist search for, they all spoke about making gold and talk so much about the different processes, all of them were false in terms of making gold what I presume, because in the most manuscripts things and processes and particularly MATTER is described in a very occult way which can never be understood by any ordinary alchemist, because they cant get procudtive knowledge from any manuscripts which was the reason Jabir Bin Hayyan or so called Geber back in 6th century wrote everything in an occult way, many so called alchemist read and have tried Geber's, Hermes and many other's processes but failed. Now let's talk about productive knowledge on the basis of alchemy, in terms of making medicines not the Philosopher's Stone but Elixir, there are so much to be learnt in terms of making medicines for different diseases which is quite possible, why one has to proceed further when he has made an Elixir which can be ingected orally, why they ruin their made Elixir for their further alchemical procedures, upto an Elixir which is eatable I have seen with my eyes and have seen patient recovered from an innitial level blood cancer with in only 10 to 15 days, see where the productivity is..... Awesome. It's atleast visible what you can see and observe phsycally, making gold is something no one has seen with in the present age but this quest will be running till the end.
There are few aspects of human wellness I'm working on in terms or medicine, let's see how long it's gonna take to reach onto my destination.
This chemistry is based 100 percent on alchemy which I call a productive alchemy in the shape and form of chemistry, chemists learned alchemists's ways to make and refine chemicals for general uses other than making gold and see they have been succeeded and still earning huge amount of money on daily basis selling their chemicals, do they need to make gold? NO!!!!!! They do not need to, why because they have gathered all the valuable knowledge from the old manuscripts and worked only upto that level which is productive. This is the reason this chemistry has been succeeded in my opinion.

Please I'm sorry if I have offended anyone who is a chemist of alchemist or alchemist to be. I respect everyone whoever is in a reaserch of anything. My point is to search for something which is procuctive snd can be seen and observed phsycally.
Please accept my appology accordingly.
Goran tonight I dont know how I felt when I struck into this little mess and that period of time just came into my mind i liked the way you post.


Geo, I have got your point, I will surely be cery much carefull next time. Roasting or incineration is a must, tonight is not at all a waste for me, I have learned and seen productive truths behind this science/process of Metal Purgation.

So nice of you Geo, Goran and everyone else, thank you.

Please Note: I eddited this post accidently, when I re-read your post Harold, it stated (need not be) and I miss read it as (need to be), kindly accpet my apologies in this regard.

Alvi

 

[Geo]

purgatory, on the forum, alchemy is a forbidden subject. It is in the same realm as magic and sorcery and we do not discuss it. It's the little things like this that makes this such a great place to learn in. We often times have new members who want to discuss it and normally, a moderator will inform them that it's a forbidden topic because it promotes misinformation. We try to be men (and women) of science and the occult has no place here.

 

[purgatory]

Geo, my opinion is the same about alchemy.
I have accepted my mistake to even write about it here.
Kindly suggest me should I delete that post or how should I undo it?

 

[Geo]

Please do not delete post. If you really want it gone, send a PM to one of the moderators. Every time it's posted on the forum, it shows up with google search. We try to limit the amount of misinformation on the forum.

 

[purgatory]

Alright Geo, thank you so much for guiding me, so nice of you.

Alvi

 

[Harold_V]

The post need not be edited, as there has been constructive discussion in regards to why we don't discuss alchemy on this forum. Because there's a never ending supply of new readers, such exposure can serve a purpose.

Those who come here with alchemy on their minds are not treated too kindly if they don't drop the subject. You, good sir, are a perfect gentleman, so we have no issues with your comments.

Harold

 

[g_axelsson]

Purgatory, this forum is based on science, alchemy may be a part of early chemistry but in those days we didn't have the knowledge of atoms and elements and people tried to make sense of the processes they observed.

That some people still talk as alchemy is something true only shows their lack of knowledge about modern science. For example, today we know how to create new elements with nuclear synthesis, we can adjust energy levels to create the new transuranium elements never seen before in nature. This is not alchemy, it is based on sound science like nuclear and quantum physics.
In chemistry we can build atoms and read DNA. With delicate instruments we can even move atoms and adjust the form of electron clouds in matter.

This is science and that is what this forum is based on. To start pushing "modern" alchemy is a sure way to get banned, we don't see lightly on misinformation here and modern alchemy is nothing but misinformation and keeping people in the dark.

With the vast knowledge of matter and chemistry we have today there are no place or need for alchemy any longer. Alchemy is only interesting from a historical point of view from a time when the Sun circled the Earth and everyone could see with their own eyes that the Earth was flat.

When I wrote "For me almost every drop is unique and it's always a bit of magic. Sometimes it drops in a strange way without any explanation. Just enjoy it."
I meant that I can't control every aspect of the environment the reduction of gold is done in. Therefore I don't know exactly how the gold will precipitate from time to time. But I don't need to, I know enough of what is happening, the chemical reduction, testing, how to avoid problems and so on, the end product is always pure gold even if the road to it isn't always the same.
... and that every time I drop my gold I get a big smile on my face. 8)

Göran

 

[Harold_V]

... and that every time I drop my gold I get a big smile on my face. 8)

There's something "magical" about precipitation. I enjoyed observing that process just as much the last time it was performed as I did the first time. Countless big smiles were certainly part of my experiences, too.

Harold

 

[cyrus899]

Question, after collecting gold foil do I need to incinerate the substance, and is there any certain temperature needed :?:

 

[Geo]

There are reasons for incineration and each reason is reliant on the material at hand. You would incinerate watch bands to remove oil and organics, you would incinerate bench sweeps to remove carbon and organics. We normally incinerate foils to help reduce tin oxide and remove previously used acids. If you recover foils using copper(II) chloride and want to use a nitric acid bath to remove troublesome materials, you would incinerate the foils after the CuCl2 treatment and before the HNO3 treatment. The temperature needed will vary for the desired effect. If you want to remove residual acid and help convert tin oxide, the temperature of an electric burner (about 400°F) will do. The type of carbon you want to remove will determine the temperature needed to reduce it to carbon dioxide ranging from a couple hundred degrees to near 1,000 degrees.

 

[cyrus899]

Thanks Geo for the information but you twisted my brain... :lol:

 

[purgatory]

When I wrote "For me almost every drop is unique and it's always a bit of magic. Sometimes it drops in a strange way without any explanation. Just enjoy it."

... and that every time I drop my gold I get a big smile on my face. 8)

Göran

You're right Goran, even I enjoyd it the 2nd time gold precipitated in a strange manner, I was like smiling that atleast it has been precipitated.

I washed it thorougly but could not melt it today, I will post it's picture by tomorrow and see what that button will come up like.

Alvi

 

[Wingedcloud]

Hello all,

I've been following samuel-a webpage on gold recovery for some time and finally, after much study and video watching, I decided to recover some gold from foils myself.
Got all reagents right, got the correct equipment to work.
I had around...2 lbs of gold fingers to start with, so began by processing them all, with the etching solution, following all the steps presented on samuel tutorial. (The foils I ended up with are shown in the picture)

I then proceded with dissolving my foils using the method on the tutorial. However, instead of using SMB to precipitate the gold, I used copperas (or ferrous sulphate), as SMB is not easy to find in my country (I'm from Portugal, btw ).

I ended up precipitating about 1 gram of gold powder, and I think i should be getting a little bit more, considering the total quantity of fingers I started with.
My HCl + HNO3 solution is still very gold yellow. Maybe I need to add more copperas to it to drop more gold?

Hope some1 can help. I'm here to clarify anything about my process so you can help me.

Thanks in advance.

Winged