solar_plasma
Well-known member
Can you explain, why you doubt this? Can you make powder of butter when you are just fast enough?
Pulverized unpopulated circuit boards with shaker table
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Can you explain, why you doubt this? Can you make powder of butter when you are just fast enough?
patnor1011
Well-known member
Kevin I do not talk about speed. Force when applied in crushing is factor which make gold smear on other material. You may see it in a church where gold is smeared on wooden sculptures.
kjavanb123
Well-known member
Based on the assay result, 95% of gold was concentrated in hole 1. Here is what my mill looks like inside, the rectangular opening at the bottom is sealed while running and open during emptying the content. I am going to make some changes to this mill, increase the number of blades, close the discharge opening permanently, have a small hole at the end of mill to discharge minus 30 mesh, and feed from other end of mill via a cyclone.
And these are some of the boards which were already cyanide leached, pulverized them screen to minus mesh 30.
Minus mesh 30,
And these are top of screen, in current mill, there is an inch gap between the mill body and end of the bades to avoid boards get stuck in between, in moy future mill upgrades, boards are shredded first, then fed to this new mill to make sure a minus 30is discharged from the mill,
As far as the blades by just visual inspection there is no gold or yellow on them even with lope. Analysis shows most of the gold is discharging from hole 1 of shaker table.
Regards,
Kevin
And these are some of the boards which were already cyanide leached, pulverized them screen to minus mesh 30.
Minus mesh 30,
And these are top of screen, in current mill, there is an inch gap between the mill body and end of the bades to avoid boards get stuck in between, in moy future mill upgrades, boards are shredded first, then fed to this new mill to make sure a minus 30is discharged from the mill,
As far as the blades by just visual inspection there is no gold or yellow on them even with lope. Analysis shows most of the gold is discharging from hole 1 of shaker table.
Regards,
Kevin
patnor1011
Well-known member
I am not talking about your blades. Gold will be smeared everywhere on metal in your material. It is obvious you will not find any on the blade, it will be abraded from blade by smashing to another material. Your gold from bonding wires will be smeared on everything else from metal to hard plastic to fiberglass.
Gold is very soft and male-able.
Gold is very soft and male-able.
kjavanb123
Well-known member
Patnor,
But assay result shows very small percentage of gold recovered are in hole 2, 3 and 4 of shaker table, can this be concluded that most of the gold recovered in hole 1?
Regards
Kevin
But assay result shows very small percentage of gold recovered are in hole 2, 3 and 4 of shaker table, can this be concluded that most of the gold recovered in hole 1?
Regards
Kevin
patnor1011
Well-known member
I was able to smear gold from bonding wires to copper pins by just mashing material with ss spoon. That is how I know about how soft it is.
If you want to know about what portion of values goes where you need to get identical sample of material. Divide it to 8 same size lots. Have 2 or 4 processed with old reliable methods just to find out what values are there. Take average from this samples. Then run next 4 on your table and you will see if you are catching everything and where. It is hard to conclude something if you do not see it or better said if you do not know for sure.
Your table method may be of good use for thoroughly incinerated IC to wash wires but for whole boards I do not see any practical use apart from that it can be considered as compacting tool and somehow for some crude basic separation. Too many different material and alloys in the mix.
If you want to know about what portion of values goes where you need to get identical sample of material. Divide it to 8 same size lots. Have 2 or 4 processed with old reliable methods just to find out what values are there. Take average from this samples. Then run next 4 on your table and you will see if you are catching everything and where. It is hard to conclude something if you do not see it or better said if you do not know for sure.
Your table method may be of good use for thoroughly incinerated IC to wash wires but for whole boards I do not see any practical use apart from that it can be considered as compacting tool and somehow for some crude basic separation. Too many different material and alloys in the mix.
eastky
Well-known member
How long does it take to run 10 pounds to the size you are wanting it to be?
The first trial run you started with 9000 grams and recovered 618 grams on the shaker table for the assays. What do you do with the remaining trash?
Your assay for the gold is quite high. Taking in to consideration that you would need to run roughly 15 metric ton to recover that amount. That's still a high percentage of gold per ton 250 divided by 15 = 16.6 troy oz per ton of material.
Most research on the recovery of gold from circuit boards are 9 to 14 troy oz per ton. I have seen studies with numbers all over the place. Low and high but not 16.6.
Have you performed any test on the magnetics that were separated from the boards?
I agree with patnor on the smearing of the gold wires. Friction causes heat and heat can smear the gold so thin that you wont be able to see it. Remember that gold can be so thin that you can see through it.
The first trial run you started with 9000 grams and recovered 618 grams on the shaker table for the assays. What do you do with the remaining trash?
Your assay for the gold is quite high. Taking in to consideration that you would need to run roughly 15 metric ton to recover that amount. That's still a high percentage of gold per ton 250 divided by 15 = 16.6 troy oz per ton of material.
Most research on the recovery of gold from circuit boards are 9 to 14 troy oz per ton. I have seen studies with numbers all over the place. Low and high but not 16.6.
Have you performed any test on the magnetics that were separated from the boards?
I agree with patnor on the smearing of the gold wires. Friction causes heat and heat can smear the gold so thin that you wont be able to see it. Remember that gold can be so thin that you can see through it.
kjavanb123
Well-known member
Eastky,
Thanks for your comments. It took around 6 minutes from start to turning off the mill to collect the materials, then another 5 minutes to screen minus and plus 30.
On 9000g to 618g, Steve from mbmmllc who ran the dry the mateirals believe since they did not weigh the material before running them and after separation, therefore it may not be accurate, plus the volume of tailing was large and heavy, so this new batch they will weigh everything.
I agree with mallablity of gold and can be all over the map, but shaker table at least the ones designed by mbmmllc show. They can separate and concentrate most of gold into their high grade concentrate shoot, and it is visible fine gold as you can see in their videos. My new batch which I will send them which they will run on their 2x4 ft shaker table, and return the discharged for assaying.
Those numbers are very high and seems unreal yield for circuit boards. If you type PCB yield in the search box here in forum, and read through them you will see cell phone boards yield around 311g of gold and others 5.5 toz.
Pattnor,
I think gravity separation of different metals and alloy used in circuit boards would help to lower their volune and concentrate them based on their specific gravity. I have seen many table designs that only had 2 discharge ports, which can only separate metals from resin and fiberglass, but you are still left with complex metal mix to deal with.
I am going to try this one more time and post my finding again.
Regards
Kevin
Thanks for your comments. It took around 6 minutes from start to turning off the mill to collect the materials, then another 5 minutes to screen minus and plus 30.
On 9000g to 618g, Steve from mbmmllc who ran the dry the mateirals believe since they did not weigh the material before running them and after separation, therefore it may not be accurate, plus the volume of tailing was large and heavy, so this new batch they will weigh everything.
I agree with mallablity of gold and can be all over the map, but shaker table at least the ones designed by mbmmllc show. They can separate and concentrate most of gold into their high grade concentrate shoot, and it is visible fine gold as you can see in their videos. My new batch which I will send them which they will run on their 2x4 ft shaker table, and return the discharged for assaying.
Those numbers are very high and seems unreal yield for circuit boards. If you type PCB yield in the search box here in forum, and read through them you will see cell phone boards yield around 311g of gold and others 5.5 toz.
Pattnor,
I think gravity separation of different metals and alloy used in circuit boards would help to lower their volune and concentrate them based on their specific gravity. I have seen many table designs that only had 2 discharge ports, which can only separate metals from resin and fiberglass, but you are still left with complex metal mix to deal with.
I am going to try this one more time and post my finding again.
Regards
Kevin
eastky
Well-known member
kjavanb123 said:
Kevin it doesn't matter if they only ran 2 pounds on the shaker table. The weight you started out with is what matters the most. That away you can determine the total weight of material to concentrate it down to 250 troy oz gold a metric ton.
Keeping in mind that you need at least the same grade of boards. How long would it take you to process 14 metric tons of material and run it on a shaker table?
kjavanb123 said:
Kevin you think 250 troy oz per ton high? That's what the assay said. You need to process 14 to 15 metric ton of circuit boards. Concentrate that down to 1 metric ton and refine that for the metal content. Per your assay.
If you think that its high then your assay is wrong.
eastky, something in your math is wrong, if you can take 15 tons down to 1 ton at 250 troy oz then the starting material need to have at least 250/(1/15) = 16.7 troy oz to begin with and no losses... yes, that's a high number = 550 g/ton. Something you might reach with cell phone boards stripped of display and plastics.eastky said:
As a comparison, whole mobile phones without batteries yielded 311 g/ton in this lot.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=20851#p214401
I'm not going back to check the calculations, I'm just making a reality check on the numbers presented. It might be in your calculations (I have a lot problems following your logic and math) or it might be in the weight numbers from Kevin.
Göran
eastky
Well-known member
That's why I said that it might be hard to understand. I just did some rough figures to give him a sense of what is involved.
To get to an actual figure with figures in research estimates. Recovery from new boards are low so he might need to process 30 tons to get an assay that high.
It would have been better if they would have gave the percent in gold in the samples instead of oz per ton. There is a .002
above the oz/per ton. Maybe that is the percentage of gold in the 618 grams.
I still think it is a waste of time going in the direction he is going.
Percent, troy oz per ton, ppm it's all the same, just different scales. There are 32154 troy ounce per ton so there are 321.54 troy ounce per percent.eastky said:
The 0.002 and other numbers on that line is too regular and if you compare it to line 100 and other places it looks like the detection limit of the measurement.
Göran
kjavanb123
Well-known member
Eastky,
I think your number of 9000 is now right, as Steve processed 10lbs which is roughly 5000g of my materials, and that produced 54g concentrates with gold at 234 toz per ton.
Regards,
Kevin
I think your number of 9000 is now right, as Steve processed 10lbs which is roughly 5000g of my materials, and that produced 54g concentrates with gold at 234 toz per ton.
Regards,
Kevin
Barren Realms 007
In Remembrance
kjavanb123 said:
Kevin,
Since what you are running would be considered mid grade boards I think you are going to find that your figures are way off as to what would be reocovered.
kjavanb123
Well-known member
Barren,
Please kindly elaborate on which number is off? We are certain about the weight of materials Steve ran, and weight of concentrate discharged from hole 1 of shaker table, so either our numbers are wrong or American analytical made a mistake somewhere about bag 1 containing 236 toz of gold per ton.
Regards
Kevin
Please kindly elaborate on which number is off? We are certain about the weight of materials Steve ran, and weight of concentrate discharged from hole 1 of shaker table, so either our numbers are wrong or American analytical made a mistake somewhere about bag 1 containing 236 toz of gold per ton.
Regards
Kevin
Barren Realms 007
In Remembrance
kjavanb123 said:
You can use this as a reference.
Small socket MB 3,790 lbs.
Gold 4.4 Toz
Silver 9.4 Toz
Palladium 2.5 Toz
Platinum 1.3 Toz
Copper 523 Lbs.
Kevin most people are reading your results totally wrong..
If bag one was the best using your figures as from 9 kilos then to actually get that result you need 168.5 tons of material to recreate that result for a ton of material.... That is really a poor result it represents a return of 1.12 ozs a ton, not even worth processing!
If bag one was the best using your figures as from 9 kilos then to actually get that result you need 168.5 tons of material to recreate that result for a ton of material.... That is really a poor result it represents a return of 1.12 ozs a ton, not even worth processing!
necromancer
Well-known member
Barren Realms 007 said:
were these Pentium 4 (socket 478) boards ?
i have seen 18,000 lbs of mixed hi grade computer boards & cards go to the smelter many times & was told they have zero platinum content.
included in load:
telecom boards
server boards & back panes
medical & scientific PCB
all types of computer mother boards from 1980's, 1990's, 2000's and 2010 ++
and all types of ad-ons for above boards
eastky
Well-known member
nickvc said:
I posted on the second page that he needed 165 metric ton.
eastky said:
I'm glad to see my figures aren't too far off, but I hesitate to see any change of attitude from Kevin, there is no simple cheap way to refine this material to get all the values, if there was the big boys would be using it. I love to see people try new ways but accept defeat when it s totally obvious.
Eastky we have these discussions often on Kevin's posts but we are wasting our time as he seems blind to the reality of the situation and just keeps going until he can't go any further, I wish he could find a way to profit from this stuff but trying to do it yourself is a total waste of time and money.
