i am going to try the AP method on a bunch of gold plated fingers and board compoents i got. i have used a similar process using a chemical from Shor international but that was very expensive. i have watched all the videos on here about it but a few things i am wondering about. on the video he saved out the greed acid/peroxide mixture becouse some gold had gone into solution. how do you precipitate that is it the same way as doing it after dissolving the flakes using the SMB. and also the SMB is show in liquid form how is that mixed is it with water or something else.
Questons on using the AP method
- Thread starter azgard
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patnor1011
Well-known member
If there is some gold dissolved in AP just keep using mixture until saturated with copper. Gold will be pushed out of solition in form of brown/black powder. If you do not plan to use this mixture anymore or do not have more fingers, put sheet of copper in bucket, gold will cement out on this copper.
SMB is sold in form of white powder you can add powder to AuCl directly while stirring or premix with water and add to AuCl.
SMB is sold in form of white powder you can add powder to AuCl directly while stirring or premix with water and add to AuCl.
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Anonymous
Guest
If you are referring to CBX,it is simply anhydrous ferric chloride,you can get the same chemical on ebay for a fraction of the cost and mix it yourself,or you can use the AP method from the forum for a fraction of "that" cost.azgard said:
Pretty much EVERYTHING that Ishor sells is basically another "easy to obtain" chemical that they have simply given a fancy name to.
CBX = Anhydrous Ferric Chloride
Storm precipitant = Sodium Metabisulphite
Subzero = Sodium Nitrate
Precious metal detection liquid = Stannous Chloride
Strip Free Solution = Sulfuric Acid
Ammonia detection liquid = basic ammonia
If you add peroxide in the appropriate quantities you should have no dissolved gold.However if you end up with some gold in solution,precipitate as per patnor's instructions.
patnor1011
Well-known member
It happen to me once that even small addition of H2O2 may dissolve some gold. I had few boards with very light "flash" plating on edges from plasma and LCD Tv`s and i noticed that this plating was dissolved. Value is very small however it is not lost as it can be accumulated and recovered later.
also another thing i was wondering in the videos where he was precipitating the gold the solution is in a large glass jar with a cover. What are those called i would like to find a couple. and i am going to try the AP method sometime in the next couple weeks or so. i live where its cold and average daytime temps are in the 40s and night time in the 20s. would this work ok being left out in the cold the 24+ hours the fingers have to soak for.
patnor1011
Well-known member
Reaction will be slower in colder temperatore. However I did few batches in temperatures around 0. I do not do this in 24hrs. I usually leave them in bucket for week or sometimes weeks. 
Wal-Mart sold some large jars (canisters in kitchen supply's) with lids, similar to what I think they called battery jars, about 2 gallon and one gallon (canister) jars, these cannot be heated on hot plate directly, but could if sand bath was used and low temperature, I have used fish tank heater in the past. Now I use heater pads with a light dimmer circuit or second hand crock pots with lids. Most all my lab equipment is from kitchen ware or canning type or pickle jars, I have bought some nice lab ware but cannot bring myself to use it (even for distilling), as I do not cry when I break my second hand kitchen ware, even my watch glass was from an old clock, broke it after two years of use, well guess I am going to have to find another clock to get the watch glass. Old automatic coffee maker and coffee pot works well for heating, also Some other things that come in handy, kitchen blender, White corning ware skillet and baking pots, the amber (not sure I have color right) or violet glass stovetop skillet, plastic type cup with screen in bottom, funnels, glass rods or fiberglass rods, hot plates, propane stove, cipher tools look like eye droppers (pipettes?), and suction bulb on a plastic syringe cannot remember what they call these but they are great for decanting solutions, or transferring liquids or starting ciphering of hoses, this list can go on and on.
What can I say it’s hard for me to give up my hillbilly ways, and use real expensive lab ware, when people throw away the lab equipment that works so well for me?
What can I say it’s hard for me to give up my hillbilly ways, and use real expensive lab ware, when people throw away the lab equipment that works so well for me?
Barren Realms 007
In Remembrance
butcher said:
Use your lab glass, it is worth it.
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Anonymous
Guest
I can agree with that.I have tons of lab glass(and 2 more cases coming from lazer steve)but only because I am willing to wait until the right auction comes along,and get it when it is rediculously cheap.I have a couple of cases of beakers stored away,and a lot of crucibles that came from a silver mine in mexico,coffee containers with sealable lids,cups from the kitchen,countless plastic spoons from wal-mart,tens of thousands of 5-gallon coffee filters.And you guys saw how I made my ball mill,I have somewhere around $60 into the whole thing.I have been on this forum a long time,and I love the idea that so many people are willing to try so many different things to save money,just to end up with the same result as everyone else.And then turn around and share that with everyone here.butcher said:
I may have a lot of really nice lab stuff now,but I guarantee I paid next to nothing for it,all you need is a lot of patience,and a lot of faith.
When performing the AP reaction to dissolve copper it's fine to use plastic buckets.
When you dissolve the gold foils or powder be sure the reaction vessel is made of a heat (thermal shock) resistant material and has a smooth inner wall all the way up to the top. The glass container I used in the early video is not a good choice as it's inner wall curls inward near the top lip. This curl catches the precipitated gold and makes it difficult to remove the gold powder. The vessel I used in the original video is also thick which is bad if the vessel needs to be heated for any reason. It will be more likely to crack from the thermal shock than a nice pyrex beaker.
Steve
When you dissolve the gold foils or powder be sure the reaction vessel is made of a heat (thermal shock) resistant material and has a smooth inner wall all the way up to the top. The glass container I used in the early video is not a good choice as it's inner wall curls inward near the top lip. This curl catches the precipitated gold and makes it difficult to remove the gold powder. The vessel I used in the original video is also thick which is bad if the vessel needs to be heated for any reason. It will be more likely to crack from the thermal shock than a nice pyrex beaker.
Steve
patnor1011
Well-known member
Yes. Never attempt do precipitate gold in plastic container. Their surface is not smooth when you stirring in them. I did this once and now I am proud owner of plastic container with gold powder trapped inside damaged inner surface of container. Not tenough to warrant dissolving again but nice to remind me that glass is better choice everytime when I precipitate gold again. :mrgreen:
I don't agree with this at all. I know that Harold won't like this but, since I usually had more than 1 gallon, I most always dropped my gold in white plastic buckets. To clean up what (always) was stuck to the bucket, I cut about a 3/4" square piece of a green 3M scrub pad and used that on the tip of my finger(s) with a little water. That loosened all the gold and I could easily rinse the inside down with a squirt bottle and then rinse the small amount of gold powder into the filter. Just keep it wet (if the powder dries on the bucket, start over), work fast, and you'll get it all. This might have taken 60 seconds total. I used the same buckets and the same little green pad over and over. If you decide you don't want to ever refine any more, wipe the inside of the buckets with a folded damp paper towel to collect any traces that are left and put the towel in the to-be-burned container. A little gold might stick to the pad but most all of that is easily rinsed out with a squirt bottle.
patnor1011
Well-known member
I do not question this Chris, I said that because of amounts involved. You probably processed more gold in one day than I did in my whole life ... If larger amounts are involved plastic buckets are necessity.
... If larger amounts are involved plastic buckets are necessity.
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Anonymous
Guest
Ok this is killing me here.I want to comment so bad,but it means I will have to disagree with either steve or chris.Something I am not wanting to do.I have known steve since the beginning of 07' and I have huge respect for chris.You know what?It won't kill me to stay out of this one.I know what worked for me in the past,and I'll keep it to myself.I respect both of you too much to disagree with either of you.
But I will say thanks to both of you(and of COURSE harold!),for bringing me where I am.I was telling a member the other day that I've been processing for about 6 years,but I really didn't know much until I joined here sometime around april of 07'.I wish I could convey my appreciation,but alas,I will have to settle for....."Thank you very much!"
But I will say thanks to both of you(and of COURSE harold!),for bringing me where I am.I was telling a member the other day that I've been processing for about 6 years,but I really didn't know much until I joined here sometime around april of 07'.I wish I could convey my appreciation,but alas,I will have to settle for....."Thank you very much!"
Barren Realms 007
In Remembrance
No need to take sides both types of containers have thier respective place in the process.
mic said:
Except in rare cases, there are no absolutes in this business. Everyone develops there own way of doing things.
Speak up!
I'm with both of you over which containers to use to drop gold in. When I was processing quantities of gold I used white plastic buckets but if smaller individual jobs were going through then glass beakers were my choice but like Chris I never had any problems with the plastic buckets and again used the same way to clean any metal off the sides.
If the buckets got past use I always swilled them out with a little AR and added it to other solutions in the system before slinging them out.
If the buckets got past use I always swilled them out with a little AR and added it to other solutions in the system before slinging them out.
I know both Chris and Harold have processed rather large quantities on a daily basis. Just how much, I do not know.
What I do know is that I have not outgrown my 4L beakers in my precipitations (probably never will). You can pack a lot of gold in 4 liters.
Now if you get above those quantities daily would I consider 5 gallon buckets, yes. The amount of gold lost to the sides of a bucket (temporarily) is very small compared to the total.
Another consideration is that Harold did toll refining and had to be accountable for every grain for each and every lot to claim honesty. If I am not mistaken GSP typically was refining gold that had already been bought and paid for so accountability as to a single lot was not a concern. I am sure he did not let values walk out the door though.
Mush of this is dependant on the operation you are running.
What I do know is that I have not outgrown my 4L beakers in my precipitations (probably never will). You can pack a lot of gold in 4 liters.
Now if you get above those quantities daily would I consider 5 gallon buckets, yes. The amount of gold lost to the sides of a bucket (temporarily) is very small compared to the total.
Another consideration is that Harold did toll refining and had to be accountable for every grain for each and every lot to claim honesty. If I am not mistaken GSP typically was refining gold that had already been bought and paid for so accountability as to a single lot was not a concern. I am sure he did not let values walk out the door though.
Mush of this is dependant on the operation you are running.
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Anonymous
Guest
Harold_V said:
Well I care about you guys (especially harold),and I may be worried about this too much,so I will just put it this way.When I started out I was not refining for another company,nor for any other individuals.Like most recreational refiners,I simply did it for myself.I did not have a lot of money or resources,and certainly not a lot of smarts for this.So I used what I had a my disposal,which of course were buckets.I would use any size,or shape that would fit my need.I used,and still use,a plastic drinking glass to dissolve my copperas,or smb(when I used to use it).I have made several furnaces,countless ceramic crucibles,and of course you guys have seen my new ball mill.Heck just the other day I needed to melt a one ounce button(thanks again barren) but I had run out of acetylene,so I used my little propane torch with the air vents in the torch tip,and shot my oxygen straight into one of the vents......worked like a dream.goldsilverpro said:
I currently own an incredible amount of lab glass,and I constantly buy more as I come across deals that I just cannot pass up.I can't imagine not using my big beakers to process in...........HOWEVER,I have to agree with chris.
I would not hesitate for a second to run a batch in a 5 gallon bucket again.My best friend processed almost 1.5 troy POUNDS of gold in 3 weeks using nothing but 5 gallon buckets and a coffee pot(thats my hero).He had little experience,little to start with,but endless amounts of determination and energy.
I think there is an old saying somewhere that says "You can only do what you can do,with what you have."or something like that.Well that is where I was,when I started this.
I have endless amounts of respect and gratitude for you steve,but I'd use a 5 gallon bucket in a heartbeat if that is all I had to work with.
