Recycle your used Acid Peroxide.

[Anonymous]

Having several gallons of used AP setting around, I experminted several ways to drop the copper out of the used solution.

I tried, as several members said to just put iron in the solution and it will drop. That worked fine but seemed to take forever.

I then had the idea of making a copper cell. I used 2 pieces of iron in an 2000ml flask, connedted 12vdc and the copper just started dropping. (Beware, it takes about 25 amps to runs it). The solution started heating up and I would have to wait until it cooled to start again.

Then idea, filled a tub with cold water and set the cell in the tub. In an hour, all the copper dropped out and I had a nice emerald green acid solution, ready to use again.

Out of 3 1800ml beakers tested, I dropped out 200ml worth of copper in the bottom. That was in each beaker.

The figures show me that 11% of your saturated solution is copper.

I recycled 1 1/2 gallons today and it works good in the bubbler.

Ideas?

 

[Shecker]

Something to consider would be to use a stainless steel anode and a copper (or stainless steel) cathode and then you have a copper electrowinning cell which can be run at 6 volts DC. This will work in both a hydrochloric acid environment as CuCl and a sulfuric acid environment as CuSO4. This should a layer of metallic copper that is easy to remove and collected.

Randy in Gunnison

 

[OMG]

Did your iron anode (+) degrade? I would think that your solution changed from a (mostly) copper chloride solution to a (mostly) iron chloride solution...
I guess that would be the same effect as cementing it out with iron, just faster. Did you get much hydrogen coming off the cathode? if so, did it look like it was being absorbed by the copper chloride solution?
When I was messing around with electrolysis similar to that I found if I put in a sprinkling of smb the copper came out very quickly. I believe the SO2 converts the CuCl2 to CuCl and regenerates some of the HCl as well as creating some sulfuric acid. I'm not sure if that would mess up the future AP reaction but you could try it on a small amount to see if it helps.
When I was doing it I was trying to precipitate all the copper without introducing any new metals and regenerate the acid at the same time, but I never found a good way to do it. I even tried a titanium anode, and it just got dissolved. I never got to try a platinum anode, but until I have a proper power supply my electrolysis experiments are on hold - its just too slow for the stuff I want to do.

 

[Anonymous]

I did not see any de-grading of the anode. It is just as smooth as when I started using it. I don't know about the iron cloride solution, I just know it drops copper and I can re-use the AP.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey OMG, the anode is starting to deteriate. Just thought I would tell you.

 

[lazersteve]

Firewalker,

I've had success using a hard graphite anode and cathode.

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

I tried with stainless, 316 and 408 they both dissolved at the anode.

I would use sulfuric, and distill off the hcl - to reuse - then run the copper sulfate in your cell with a SS cathode and lead anode that will regenerate your sulfuric to convert more CuCL etc, etc,

 

[OMG]

Thanks fire walker.
I've used all kinds of graphite. The larger and the harder the better, but they all deteriorated on me way too quick (maybe were effective for 6 hours tops).
I would just stick with what you're doing an dissolve the iron in there.
If I were you I'd add a bit of SO2 (from SMB,etc) which would make the CuCl2 into CuCl (and produce some HCl as well, and also use up some water - making it even stronger).
the reaction is 2CuCl2 + SO2 + 2H2O -> 2CuCl + 2 HCl + H2SO4
Then you would deposit out the copper on the cathode and iron would be going into solution.
Then when you go to do your next batch of AP, when you add peroxide to the mix, it will upgrade the iron(2) chloride to iron(3) chloride (FeCl3).
Conveniently FeCl3 dissolves copper! Quite quickly too.

side note - if you add a lot of so2, you will notice your mix start to fume and heat up. be careful. It is heating up because of the H2SO4 being created, and the fumes coming off are HCl (+water).

try to keep the voltage on your cell low enough that hydrogen doesn't come off the cathode.

 

[butcher]

Be very carefull using stainless steel as anode in electrolytic cell, chromium produced can be very hazardous, a poision not easily delt with.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Can this process be done before any gold or PM's are removed or will it remove them in the process?

 

[firewalker]

I have never recycled with pgm in solution, I did this to re-use the acid peroxide solution. Usually with the aomunt of copper in solution, it forces the gold out anyway.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Wouldn't the gold be plating on the steel while the copper is falling to the bottom. Or vise versa?
Or would they mix?

 

[OMG]

both gold and copper would fall to the bottom.
every metal that is stable than iron would cement out

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Then it would be better to drop out the gold and then run the electro..

Once the copper is removed from solution, why is it not discussed to put it in a pile and electro plate it to some stainless steel. That would take it out of the flaky state it is in and make it a solid piec that could be sold.

 

[firewalker]

I re-read the string of posts and saw I forgot to mention one of the most inportant steps.

I did test the AP with stannus before I droped the copper out and the test's were negative for gold..

I suspect that the solution being saturated with copper had forced the gold out when I went into the recovery stage prior to recycling.

Cheers......Jack

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Morning Firewalker,

When you dropped the copper out what did you have to do to the mix to make it active again? did you just have to add some peroxide back in the solution again?

Did you try to replate the copper that had dropped or did you just leave it the way it was for further use or sale?

 

[firewalker]

Once the solution became clear jade color, I used it in my bubblers. I did not add any chemicals, but will probley have to add peroxide adventually. The copper is in the bottom of 2 5gal buckets and I have not decided what to do with it yet.

Jack

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Ok excellent info to have.


How many cycles have you processed the liquid?

Or is this still the 2nd go round for it?

 

[firewalker]

Right now I am using the second recycle group of AP. Figgured it has saved me at least 6 gallons of Muratic. I know that is not much, but its 6 used gallons not sitting around waiting to be spilled.

 

[LeftyTheBandit]

I was just wondering if anyone is using this process with success?

Is the Iron Chloride as good as Copper Chloride in stripping copper from electronics?

I noticed Steve mention he used graphite rods, and then I noticed someone said they used graphite rods and they only lasted 6hrs. If I used graphite rods would the AP be usable after or is it just steel that gives you re-usable AP.

I have 10 gal's of AP I would like to re-use and sell all that copper in solution.