For Sale Refined Gold - 58.6 grams

[bawaayce]

Asking $4,400

Madison WI area. Local pickup only

 

[4metals]

Powder is a tough sell. Unless someone has first hand knowledge of your skill level the purity is difficult to estimate. An XRF result would help but melting it into a bar and providing a good photo will go a long way to infer purity. The price is good at todays gold price knocking about $500 off the gold fix.

Good luck, I wish you well.

 

[bawaayce]

Thanks for the info

 

[Lou]

Agreed. You'd be better off melting it.

 

[anachronism]

I always wonder how you guys in the US have such a hard time finding honest gold buyers. Is it everywhere or is it localised?

It must be really tough for some.

 

[Lou]

In this case, as a buyer, I would want it melted first. Risk is to the buyer as much as the seller.

 

[4metals]

At $2600 an ounce it seems to bring out the best in all of us!!!!!!!! For every story I hear about a refiner screwing a customer there are multiple stories of customers (gold sellers) misrepresenting their material as well.

 

[SinisterGenuis]

I always wonder how you guys in the US have such a hard time finding honest gold buyers. Is it everywhere or is it localised?

It must be really tough for some.

Over the years so many Cash for Gold and Pawn shops have popped up that the market is saturated with them. They offer quick and easy turn around for those who are less than savvy about what then are selling. Someone has legit Karat Gold, but doesn't know how or want to refine and they are getting and taking 20-30 cent on the dollar. This literally makes it hard for someone like me because I have actually had some places tell me why would I pay you close to melt for your refined stuff when I get plenty of scrap jewelry so cheap. I had an amazing recycler I worked with for years. They were 2 partners who started the business in there 20's and were both mid 60's when I met them. I would travel 55 miles one way to go to them. They would XRF every piece side by side with you and would go into the office and let you listen in on the call to the refiner. They would give me every penny they could with still making a small but decent profit. They would buy lunch every time I went and we would sit in the office and drink coffee and reminisce about the good old days. Sadly I know I have to find another because there days are limited these past few years. My Grandfather always used to tell me Signatures and handshakes mean nothing if the person doesn't value the reputation of there own last name, and then he would add and never do anything to water down our last name.

 

[kurtak]

I always wonder how you guys in the US have such a hard time finding honest gold buyers.

I have never had a hard time finding an honest gold buyer here in the U. S.

Are there dishonest ones out there - yes - of course - just as I am sure that is true over there in England

I don't think it is actually a matter of it being hard to find an honest one - rather I think it is that we tend to hear more about the dishonest ones because members tend to post their complaints more then ALL the good experiences members have in selling their gold

To put it in perspective (as a wild guess) for every complaint we hear about there is probably a 100 (plus/minus) good deals that happen - we just don't hear about ALL those good deals

Kurt

 

[bawaayce]

Melted. Kept one gram for keepsake.

 

[anachronism]

Melted. Kept one gram for keepsake.

This demonstrates why powder is a tough sell. This gold isn't pure and need refining in order to get the best price.

 

[kurtak]

This demonstrates why powder is a tough sell. This gold isn't pure and need refining in order to get the best price.

Per the bold print (above quote) - I don't know how things work over there in England but over here in the U.S. that is not quite true (at least in my experience)

Over here (in my experience) with both "we buy gold" shops & "actual" refineries gold is bought/paid out on the "content" of gold & not on its purity as well as the amount of gold you are selling so it does not matter if you are selling 10K 12K 14K 18K or pure (999 +) 24K gold the payout rate is the same - for the content of the gold in the item being sold

Example; - the refinery I sell my gold (& silver to) pays out 96 % of spot on gold I send (if I send in less then 5 ozt of gold content

So if I send them 5 ozt of my refined 24K (999 +) they will pay me 96% of spot for that 5ozt gold

on the other hand - if I send them say a batch of 12K (which is 50 % gold & 50% "other" metal) they will still pay 96 % on the gold "content" of the batch of 12K gold I send them

Another words - to get paid for 5 ozt gold - at the 96 % payout rate - I would have to send them 10 ozt of 12K gold

So it does not matter how pure the gold is I send them & that is because they pay out the same based on the gold content sent in & not on its purity

That is because actual refineries don't really make their money so much on the refining of the gold but rather make their money on making "value added" products from the gold they receive - which they sell for a premium over spot

Products such as Jewlers casting shot, wire, tubing, sheet solder &/or stamping out bullion coins/rounds/bars

So - because refineries pay out based on gold "content" - "we buy gold" shops - generally speaking buy their gold based on gold content & not on purity - because that is how they get paid from the refinery when they send a batch in

That is why I never really got into refining karat gold because when I send my gold to the refinery I get paid the same percentage of spot - on the gold content of what I send in - whether its is 10K (or other karat) or gold refined to 24K (999 +)

For what it is worth

Kurt

 

[anachronism]

Per the bold print (above quote) - I don't know how things work over there in England but over here in the U.S. that is not quite true (at least in my experience)

Over here (in my experience) with both "we buy gold" shops & "actual" refineries gold is bought/paid out on the "content" of gold & not on its purity as well as the amount of gold you are selling so it does not matter if you are selling 10K 12K 14K 18K or pure (999 +) 24K gold the payout rate is the same - for the content of the gold in the item being sold

Example; - the refinery I sell my gold (& silver to) pays out 96 % of spot on gold I send (if I send in less then 5 ozt of gold content

So if I send them 5 ozt of my refined 24K (999 +) they will pay me 96% of spot for that 5ozt gold

on the other hand - if I send them say a batch of 12K (which is 50 % gold & 50% "other" metal) they will still pay 96 % on the gold "content" of the batch of 12K gold I send them

Another words - to get paid for 5 ozt gold - at the 96 % payout rate - I would have to send them 10 ozt of 12K gold

So it does not matter how pure the gold is I send them & that is because they pay out the same based on the gold content sent in & not on its purity

That is because actual refineries don't really make their money so much on the refining of the gold but rather make their money on making "value added" products from the gold they receive - which they sell for a premium over spot

Products such as Jewlers casting shot, wire, tubing, sheet solder &/or stamping out bullion coins/rounds/bars

So - because refineries pay out based on gold "content" - "we buy gold" shops - generally speaking buy their gold based on gold content & not on purity - because that is how they get paid from the refinery when they send a batch in

That is why I never really got into refining karat gold because when I send my gold to the refinery I get paid the same percentage of spot - on the gold content of what I send in - whether its is 10K (or other karat) or gold refined to 24K (999 +)

For what it is worth

Kurt

Yeah I get that Kurt - I know what you're meaning. The issue is that when you XRF a bar like that you will get a reading much lower on the top when the base of the bar will gun up a lot higher. The impurities seem to cluster at the top of the bar. Hence you'll get often get paid on the top bar reading. That's what I meant about getting a better price.

 

[nickvc]

I refined lots of jewellery scraps , sweeps , bench lemels and as Kurt alluded to the real money was in making fresh new product not really in refining although it did make money because of the volumes I processed at the time .

 

[4metals]

There is a difference between what we call gold buyers and gold refiners and finally, the major refiners. At least here in the USA. Most gold buyers just buy it in for the best price they can get it for. They melt it and ship it quickly and live on the margins. There are some who don't even melt it but they are really getting hosed. Then there are the refiners that are in every city. They buy in gold from the gold buyers (they usually do not want to bother with the small one or two ounce guys) and they melt it and ship it off to a major refiner and also live on the margins. Often these guys also do in house stone removal where the only option is to refine it to pure to get the stones out. They will get a better price on their refined gold percentage wise then they get on their karat scrap because when a major refiner gets in pre refined gold they can skip a processing step and add it directly to the process they use for .9999 fine gold. If the refined gold incoming meets certain quantity requirements.

If you find a gold buyer who is paying 96% as Kurt says, it really does not pay to go the extra mile to get high purity, especially in smaller quantities. The exception being if you sell to a buyer who tests on a stone, you want a buyer who uses an XRF and you want to have on you a sample that has a known purity just to keep the XRF honest. Remember an XRF is a calibrated machine.

However as Kurt and many others here have noticed, there is a great degree of satisfaction in pouring a nice pure bar of gold and seeing it glowing in the mold and ending up with a bar that has a luster that makes you think it has a light bulb inside if it! But in time, we all grow up and process it sufficient to get the best value for our efforts.

 

[anachronism]

There is a difference between what we call gold buyers and gold refiners and finally, the major refiners. At least here in the USA. Most gold buyers just buy it in for the best price they can get it for. They melt it and ship it quickly and live on the margins. There are some who don't even melt it but they are really getting hosed. Then there are the refiners that are in every city. They buy in gold from the gold buyers (they usually do not want to bother with the small one or two ounce guys) and they melt it and ship it off to a major refiner and also live on the margins. Often these guys also do in house stone removal where the only option is to refine it to pure to get the stones out. They will get a better price on their refined gold percentage wise then they get on their karat scrap because when a major refiner gets in pre refined gold they can skip a processing step and add it directly to the process they use for .9999 fine gold. If the refined gold incoming meets certain quantity requirements.

If you find a gold buyer who is paying 96% as Kurt says, it really does not pay to go the extra mile to get high purity, especially in smaller quantities. The exception being if you sell to a buyer who tests on a stone, you want a buyer who uses an XRF and you want to have on you a sample that has a known purity just to keep the XRF honest. Remember an XRF is a calibrated machine.

However as Kurt and many others here have noticed, there is a great degree of satisfaction in pouring a nice pure bar of gold and seeing it glowing in the mold and ending up with a bar that has a luster that makes you think it has a light bulb inside if it! But in time, we all grow up and process it sufficient to get the best value for our efforts.

We certainly do. The point I was trying to make is that buyers can and will use the best methods at their disposal to reduce what they pay. Presenting a bar/button that clearly looks impure gives them an opportunity to suggest that the whole product is of a lower purity and therefore pay less.

People tend to miss that recovery is the skill. Refining the gold after recovery is easy. And that easy part is what increases the $$$

 

[kurtak]

This gold isn't pure and need refining

I agree that his melted button should be cleaned up - the question is what is causing the "haze" on the surface of the button

If he used flux (like borax or soda ash) when he melted the powder then it may just be a surface coating of the flux in which case it may just need that surface coating of flux dissolved away

Or it could be "other" metal salts (such as AgCl etc.) that were in the powder "some" of which then phased out to the surface (& some of which will still "likely" still be "in" the button) which indeed would then mean it needs to be re-refined

It does have a somewhat decent pipe happening which is a somewhat good sign

Melted. Kept one gram for keepsake.

bawaayce - please tell us more about your gold so we can help you make it more acceptable for selling

What was the original source of the gold (karat scrap or electronic scrap etc.)

What/how did you process it to get the gold powder (the more details you can provide here the better)

How did you melt it (with flux or no flux)

Kurt

 

[bawaayce]

I melted the Gold with flux (borax).

Took it to a local coin\jewelry shop and paid them 5$ to have it XRF scanned a number of times. They clamed the gold was ~99.5% pure. Sold it there so this item is no longer available for sale.

Thanks for all the input!

 

[4metals]

Took it to a local coin\jewelry shop and paid them 5$ to have it XRF scanned a number of times.

You had to pay $5 for the XRF even though they bought the gold?

 

[SinisterGenuis]

I melted the Gold with flux (borax).

Took it to a local coin\jewelry shop and paid them 5$ to have it XRF scanned a number of times.

Yikes that doesn't seem right. I once took 15 five gallon buckets full on Dameron HR-40, for glass molds, to my guy and he had 3 helpers sit down on crates and XRF every piece. Took about 2hrs, but benefitted us both. If a deal is in the works, or even the potential of one, I find it odd to pay for the XRF