Refining a huge chunk of lead and gold

[kurtak]

At the very least you should take this product daily while you are doing this & then for another 2 -4 weeks after you are done with what you are doing (& then still get a blood test)

This product will also chelate (remove) other essential vitamins & minerals from your body so you need to replenish those vitamins & minerals (multi-vitamins) after using the EDTA to remove the metals (lead/zinc)

In other words - you first want the EDTA to work at removing the metals - then after that take the vitamins/minerals to replenish the vitamins/minerals lost from taking the EDTA

Whenever I ran my furnace for smelting this is how I would take the EDTA - then replenish with vitamins/minerals

After a day of smelting I would take the max dose of EDTA (3 capsules) for the next 3 - 5 days

Then for the next 3 days I would take two (instead of just one) multi-vitamin & then drop back to just one multi-vitamin for the next few days (or until my next smelt)

I ran my smelting operation "about" every 2 - 3 weeks

https://www.allstarhealth.com/de_p_....htm?msclkid=da3c4941d7ba1da171922da804372f86
Kurt

 

[Yggdrasil]

I hope you are doing this in away that keeps those fumes well away from you (preferably a good fume hood)

If not - you are likely to end up with heavy metal poisoning - if you breath enough of those fumes you may experience what is known as metal fume fever

From Wiki ----------

Metal fume fever, also known as brass founders' ague, brass shakes,[1] zinc shakes, galvie flu, galvo poisoning, metal dust fever, welding shivers, or Monday morning fever,[2] is an illness primarily caused by exposure to chemicals such as zinc oxide (ZnO), aluminium oxide (Al2O3), or magnesium oxide (MgO) which are produced as byproducts in the fumes that result when certain metals are heated. Other common sources are fuming silver, gold, platinum,[3] chromium[4] (from stainless steel), nickel, arsenic, manganese, beryllium, cadmium, cobalt, lead, selenium, and zinc.[5]

Welders are routinely exposed to the substances that cause metal fume fever from the base metal, plating, or filler. The most common form of exposure among welders occurs when welding galvanized steel, of which zinc is the primary component of the galvanization process. Galvanized metal must be thoroughly cleaned using an angle grinder or other abrasive means to remove the galvanized coating before welding or burning. Brazing and soldering can also cause metal poisoning due to exposure to lead, zinc, copper, or cadmium.[5] In extreme cases, cadmium[6] (present in some older silver solder alloys) can cause loss of consciousness.

Exposure usually arises through hot metalworking processes, such as smelting and casting of zinc alloys,

If I were you & you are not using VERY GOOD fume control while doing this - I would go & get a blood test done looking specifically for lead & zinc poisoning

You may need to go through chelating treatments to remove the lead & zinc from your body - if these metals are not removed from your body they will result in heath issues which you will not be aware of untill years later - heath issues including but not limited to a shorter life

These fumes (lead & zinc) are VERY TOXIC !!!!

Kurt

I can confirm that is not anything you go into willingly.
I had it once after welding galvanized steel, and even with masks and safety measures I became quite ill with heavy fever.
It lasted one night but was quite uncomfortable

 

[Hbartamian]

I hope you are doing this in away that keeps those fumes well away from you (preferably a good fume hood)

If not - you are likely to end up with heavy metal poisoning - if you breath enough of those fumes you may experience what is known as metal fume fever

From Wiki ----------

Metal fume fever, also known as brass founders' ague, brass shakes,[1] zinc shakes, galvie flu, galvo poisoning, metal dust fever, welding shivers, or Monday morning fever,[2] is an illness primarily caused by exposure to chemicals such as zinc oxide (ZnO), aluminium oxide (Al2O3), or magnesium oxide (MgO) which are produced as byproducts in the fumes that result when certain metals are heated. Other common sources are fuming silver, gold, platinum,[3] chromium[4] (from stainless steel), nickel, arsenic, manganese, beryllium, cadmium, cobalt, lead, selenium, and zinc.[5]

Welders are routinely exposed to the substances that cause metal fume fever from the base metal, plating, or filler. The most common form of exposure among welders occurs when welding galvanized steel, of which zinc is the primary component of the galvanization process. Galvanized metal must be thoroughly cleaned using an angle grinder or other abrasive means to remove the galvanized coating before welding or burning. Brazing and soldering can also cause metal poisoning due to exposure to lead, zinc, copper, or cadmium.[5] In extreme cases, cadmium[6] (present in some older silver solder alloys) can cause loss of consciousness.

Exposure usually arises through hot metalworking processes, such as smelting and casting of zinc alloys,

If I were you & you are not using VERY GOOD fume control while doing this - I would go & get a blood test done looking specifically for lead & zinc poisoning

You may need to go through chelating treatments to remove the lead & zinc from your body - if these metals are not removed from your body they will result in heath issues which you will not be aware of untill years later - heath issues including but not limited to a shorter life

These fumes (lead & zinc) are VERY TOXIC !!!!

Kurt

Thanks for the info. I was doing this in an open field about 50 feet away with a mask on, I would periodically check on it to see how it was going and the breeze blowing away from me. I’ll still get checked out though!

 

[Hbartamian]

At the very least you should take this product daily while you are doing this & then for another 2 -4 weeks after you are done with what you are doing (& then still get a blood test)

This product will also chelate (remove) other essential vitamins & minerals from your body so you need to replenish those vitamins & minerals (multi-vitamins) after using the EDTA to remove the metals (lead/zinc)

In other words - you first want the EDTA to work at removing the metals - then after that take the vitamins/minerals to replenish the vitamins/minerals lost from taking the EDTA

Whenever I ran my furnace for smelting this is how I would take the EDTA - then replenish with vitamins/minerals

After a day of smelting I would take the max dose of EDTA (3 capsules) for the next 3 - 5 days

Then for the next 3 days I would take two (instead of just one) multi-vitamin & then drop back to just one multi-vitamin for the next few days (or until my next smelt)

I ran my smelting operation "about" every 2 - 3 weeks

https://www.allstarhealth.com/de_p_....htm?msclkid=da3c4941d7ba1da171922da804372f86
Kurt

Thanks! Looks like a good product.

 

[Hbartamian]

Upon revisiting the Parkes process, I do not think it is suited to separated the Gold from Lead, only Silver.
So what you now have, if you have done all correct, is one part Zinc/Silver alloy and one part Lead/Gold alloy.
Which means you are more or less back to square one.
Maybe Cupelling or electrolytic separation is the easiest/best way?

Well I definitely see some gold nuggets that coalesced in the last poured bar, so it worked. Until I cupel, I’m not sure how well. in his video, I didn’t see his gold at all, maybe he was doing silver.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Well I definitely see some gold nuggets that coalesced in the last poured bar, so it worked. Until I cupel, I’m not sure how well. in his video, I didn’t see his gold at all, maybe he was doing silver.

When you cupel your end product will be an alloy of all the precious metals.
If the Silver content is high enough the button will be Silver in color.

 

[kurtak]

When you cupel your end product will be an alloy of all the precious metals.
If the Silver content is high enough the button will be Silver in color.

&/or if there is enough Pt &/or Pd in the button

it does not take much Pt or Pd to "bleach" the yellow color of gold to silver in color

Pt & Pd (as well as Ni) are used to make "white" gold

It only takes "about" 20% of any one of those metals to bleach the yellow color out of gold & turn it to a "bright" white/silver color --- so even at 12 - 15% it will make the alloy (button) look more silvery then golden

Edit to add; - it takes MUCH more silver to bleach the color out of gold - in fact silver does not actual bleach gold (like Pt or Pd or Ni) it simply dilutes it which is why it takes "much" more silver to shift the color of gold from yellow to white

Kurt

 

[kaisernine]

Maybe I missed it but have you even had your material XRF tested? I mean you don't have to but if you do it, it certainly helps make the process easier.

if you have gold in the sample some scrap yards buy it at *(OK)* rates that may save you time and money in the refining process.

 

[Hbartamian]

Maybe I missed it but have you even had your material XRF tested? I mean you don't have to but if you do it, it certainly helps make the process easier.

if you have gold in the sample some scrap yards buy it at *(OK)* rates that may save you time and money in the refining process.

no, I haven’t had it tested.

 

[Hbartamian]

When you cupel your end product will be an alloy of all the precious metals.
If the Silver content is high enough the button will be Silver in color.

Good to note

 

[kaisernine]

most places will test it for free, I have not seen a place charge - as they most likely want to buy the material. assay will cost you a little bit if you can find a place.

I'd go get it xrf tested somewhere, you only need a small sample - it will help a ton to know exactly what you are working with.

anywhere that buys scrap metal or gold has one.

 

[Hbartamian]

alright I wanted to report some success in cupeling! I ended up building my own kiln while I was at it. I’ve only done 1/5th of the lead, but such a win. learned a lot, you guys were a great help.

 

[Martijn]

alright I wanted to report some success in cupeling! I ended up building my own kiln while I was at it. I’ve only done 1/5th of the lead, but such a win. learned a lot, you guys were a great help.

Now that is one beauty of a DIY kiln! What did you use for it? Specs please! I would like to copy that with your permission.

 

[Hbartamian]

Now that is one beauty of a DIY kiln! What did you use for it? Specs please! I would like to copy that with your permission.

Yah! let me compile the parts list.

 

[Ayham Hafez]

Cupeling requires a relatively calm environment, with just a touch of Oxygen , to convert the Lead to Lead Oxide.This is very hard to do in a propane fired, top loading furnace. I have a ceramic "cubicle " inside my front loading propane fired furnace. Placement is critical, and I feel , would be difficult for a first timer to get right. The electric furnace, as used by Jason at MBMM ,would be something much more in line for your needs. You can do both smelting and cupeling with this furnace. The only draw back to electric is that a high CO2 environment seems to consume the resistance wires quickly. If you are serious about your hobby, a gas for smelting, electric for cupeling, is your best option.Front loading doors are almost a must. Top doors, you have to lift out the crucible with 1 tool, then pick up with another tool for pouring. If not done quickly enough, your crucible contents can freeze prematurely. All the big assay houses have front doors for this reason. Much more efficient.
The rest of your post is pretty close, but not quite there. The respirator does not say what the filtering media is. Some filters will deplete by simply exposing to the atmosphere. I would call the manufacturer, tell them your use, and see if they still recommend that model.
Once you cupel, or slag off the Zinc, depending on which process you decide upon, you will have an Au/Ag prill or button. To get to high Au content, you will then need to either in quart with Ag, or take through AR, or one of several other refining processes. Something you should have done in the beginning. But what the hell, you are going to learn a lot.

In case I don't have other way than using top propane furnace to make cupellation, do you think reducing flame better than oxidizing flame? Am trying to cupel lead copper alloy to git rid of lead and some copper only, but when I use oxidizing flame copper oxidized very quickly, and am not sure once its oxidized I loose PM's into it, also not sure if I use reducing flame that will make lead oxidize

 

[jeremyforlines]

In case I don't have other way than using top propane furnace to make cupellation, do you think reducing flame better than oxidizing flame? Am trying to cupel lead copper alloy to git rid of lead and some copper only, but when I use oxidizing flame copper oxidized very quickly, and am not sure once its oxidized I loose PM's into it, also not sure if I use reducing flame that will make lead oxidize

You can't just make a large cupel and put it in the ground and build a fire with very hot burning wood around it and keep it flame stoked with a fan? That doesn't work? Idk, just asking .

 

[Ayham Hafez]

You can't just make a large cupel and put it in the ground and build a fire with very hot burning wood around it and keep it flame stoked with a fan? That doesn't work? Idk, just asking .

There are many YouTube videos doing same process.

 

[jeremyforlines]

I think white alder would do it.

 

[Shark]

While YouTube may help at times, in this case I think looking into some old literature might be the best answer. I have seen furnaces made just for this type work in some older books, but the brain won’t tell which book right now.

It might need some adaptions because they were straight up cupel furnaces made of brick.