Refining Gold from Gold Filled Jewelry

[slickdogg]

Oneal58 what web browser are you using to try and view the videos? i had same problem when using internet explorer.... i switched to firefox web browser and all videos play fine now.

Rickey

 

[Oneal58]

Hi kadriver, Love that, Great Memory-Just Short. First time I have ever heard it put that way but it fits perfectly Thanks for the advice, I will go try that now.
Kadriver, I have been running the sulphuric cell for several days now. My electrolyte is as black as the ace of spades. I decided to decant the sulphuric. I have been letting the electrolyte settle out. It has been settling now for approx. 35 hours. I expected the electrolyte solution to settle and at least become clearer than it was when I stopped stripping the goldplated material. To my surprise the electrolyte is just as black as it was when I started letting it settle 35 hours ago :?: I am puzzled by this because everything I have read so far says that it should clear up somewhat when the gold settles.
What am I doing wrong or what has happened to the electrolyte to cause this? Thanks kadriver for your help.
Oneal58

Oneal58:

I experienced a similar problem while trying to view lazersteve's videos.

When I tried to watch a video, I would get some kind of error.

After several tries, I finally noticed that there was a yellow message bar appearing near the top of the screen each time I clicked on one of the videos I wanted to watch.

It just kind of pops up, and it is easy to miss it.

Once I noticed this yellow bar, I clicked on it and found some instructions that allowed me to run the videos on his site.

next time you try the videos, carefully look near the top of your screen for this yellow bar that appears after you select one of his videos. Click on it and follow the instructions.

I can't remember what it said, and since I have already clicked on the "allow" function in that yellow bar, I can't get it to repeat.

In other words, once enable, the yellow bar no longer appears, It just goes straight to the videos.

Also, you must click on the start button for each video after you select it. The videos do not start automatically after you click on them.

I am going by memory here so i may have left something out.

I have a great memory - it's just short!

Hope this is helpful to you.

kadriver (Kevin)

 

[Oneal58]

Hi Rickey, I tried that also. I switched to Firefox, downloaded it and put it to work but am still experiencing a different, but similar problem? I can get 1 or 2 videos to download now but that's it? Out of all the videos, I can get only 2 to play? That part of it is truely baffling? Thanks Rickey for your help.
Oneal58

Oneal58 what web browser are you using to try and view the videos? i had same problem when using internet explorer.... i switched to firefox web browser and all videos play fine now.

Rickey

 

[Oneal58]

Hi Butcher, hope you are doing well today. I will try that Butcher, thanks. Oneal58

Oneal,
As far as trying to find and read all of Kadriver’s posts, and following them by date, here is what you might try:
Find one of his posts, click on profile at bottom of his post.
In profile click search users posts,(these should be in order of date) this will bring up his posts (17 pages like this:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&author_id=14587&start=320

Now maybe make notes of the section (he made the posts like help needed section) also the heading (like melting karate gold) and the date,

You may find a pattern here? Many of these posts may be in same sections.

Now go to forum and board index, go down to the heading like help needed, finding the title subject and read that one, the dates should be in order in the sections

Sorry I am not good on computers maybe some else will know a better way.

 

[philddreamer]

Hi Oneal!

The sulphuric acid is thick, so it'll take a couple of days for the fine gold particles to settle. When I don't want to wait that long, I filter the acid thru a funnel & a fiber glass "plug". It will take several plugs. After I'm done filtering, I rinse the plugs, & run them thru HCL/Cl thus recovering the gold
in them.

Phil

 

[Oneal58]

Hi Phil,
Are we talking Pink Panther Type Fiberglass here or other? Do you pack the narrow stem of the funnel with fiberglass or just put the fiberglass in the top of the funnel? If you pack the stem of the funnel, what is the length & diameter of the funnel stem you use or does it matter? I see now "plug" which would mean the stem of the funnel, right? One more quick question Phil, what % mixture and strength of the HCL/CL do you use. I am still working on trying to get the information off the videos at Lazersteve's site but am still unsuccessful with it. I think it's got something to do with the way I have my Media Player Program set up. I will keep trying but it takes time. Thank you Phil for any help.
Oneal58

Hi Oneal!

The sulphuric acid is thick, so it'll take a couple of days for the fine gold particles to settle. When I don't want to wait that long, I filter the acid thru a funnel & a fiber glass "plug". It will take several plugs. After I'm done filtering, I rinse the plugs, & run them thru HCL/Cl thus recovering the gold
in them.

Phil

 

[philddreamer]

Some other members in the forum like using a "Charmin plug" also known as toilet paper, but the sulphuric will eat it up & makes a mess. I don't like using the charmin; use & re-use the fiber glass, & when it gets clogged, I use a bit of HCl/Cl & it dissolves the gold sediment & the plug is clean.

So, yes, the pink or yellow or white, as long as it's fiber glass. I also found that kaowool will work, but its expensive. (I had some left over from when I installed my woodstove.) Yes, you pack the stem of the funnel.
I use 4:1 HCl/Cl, I add the clorox in small increments until all the dark sediment is dissolved.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=7034&p=65081&hilit=fiber+glass+filters#p65836

Phil

 

[kadriver]

Oneal58:

I recall having to allow the acid in my stripping cell to settle for several days like Phil pointed out.

Eventually you could see through the acid and the black material had collected on the bottom of the cell.

The acid was not crystal clear, it was still dark, but transparent.

I have saved a bunch of gold plated jewelry that has been accumulating. I may have to get the sufuric acid stripping cell set up and get it running again.

I think December 2010 was the last time that I ran it.

Back then I was too green and anxious to have to wait for the black gold powder to build up in the cell - let alone the idea of having to wait for it to settle.

Since I have gained a little more experience, hopefully I have gained some patience.

thanks - kadriver

 

[qst42know]

Oneil58

If you want to see all of a members posts. Use the "advanced search" from the top of the page, insert the name in the author box and you will get a full list of each post.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=&terms=all&author=kadriver+&sv=0&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

 

[Oneal58]

Hi qst42know,
Thanks, I will try that now. Thanks, Oneal58

Oneil58

If you want to see all of a members posts. Use the "advanced search" from the top of the page, insert the name in the author box and you will get a full list of each post.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=&terms=all&author=kadriver+&sv=0&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

 

[Harold_V]

Oneil58

If you want to see all of a members posts. Use the "advanced search" from the top of the page, insert the name in the author box and you will get a full list of each post.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=&terms=all&author=kadriver+&sv=0&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

Alternately, click on the individual's Profile button, bottom left of the screen. That takes you to his private page, where you can then click on a button to see all of his posts.

Harold

 

[Oneal58]

Hi Harold
That worked for me, thanks a million. Harold I ran the sulphuric cell for several days/nights. I decided to decant and I have been letting the sulphuric cell settle out the gold bearing black powder. The Cell has been really slow to settle. I don't know if this is a good sign or a bad sign? From what I can gather from others, 48 hours should have been long enough for the gold powder to settle and the electrolyte should be showing signs of clearing? I have ran about 2.5 lbs. of gold plated through and found a few pieces of karat gold that got by me, I started stripping them before I realized the pieces were karat gold. My amps on the rectifier would never pull back and the fizzing would not stop and I realized the pieces were karat gold.
So, I guess my question is if the electrolyte is heavy laden with gold powder is this the reason the cell has not settled in 4 days? Which would be a pleasant surprise! Or could there be another reason for the electrolyte not to clear up. Such as cell getting too hot, darkening the acid like you get when you overheat oil, or is that even possible? Contamination from a piece of gold plated plastic jewelry that got by me or other? I have checked the cell this morning and it's still black? Unless there has been earthquakes while I was sleeping the cell has not been moved in nearly 4 days. There should be signs of the electrolyte clearing but there isn't? I really cannot tell any difference in the acid solution now compared to when I quit stripping. I am going to decant tomorrow no matter what. I have been told by another member to use glass fiber insulation packed into a glass funnel to filter. I guess that will be the way I go.
I am moving on to the gold filled jewelry with the instructions you gave me next week. Thanks Harold,
Oneal58

Oneil58

If you want to see all of a members posts. Use the "advanced search" from the top of the page, insert the name in the author box and you will get a full list of each post.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=&terms=all&author=kadriver+&sv=0&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

Alternately, click on the individual's Profile button, bottom left of the screen. That takes you to his private page, where you can then click on a button to see all of his posts.

Harold

 

[Oneal58]

Hi kadriver, just wanted to say high. Hope you are doing well. My cell still hasn't settled kadriver, nearly 4 days. I don't know what is going on? I have asked Harold about this and am waiting on his reply. I could have got the cell too hot kadriver or contaminated it with gold plated plastic jewelry.
Kadriver, did you use the HCL/CL process to recover your gold out of your cell? You and I never got into the sulphuric cell process the other day. I think I have the process in my head and notes from what I have been able to piece together here and there. But, I just want to be sure and not make any mistakes. Do you mind me asking what process you used and what to look out for? I am still having trouble with LazerSteve's Site with the videos. I have read your post where you looked at the videos and followed them step by step. I am able now, with Harold's help to follow through your post and replies from members in order. Just like you when you were learning, I will be following you step by step. I love the way you put your steps in order and numbered them. Step by step, this helps someone like me more than you will ever know kadriver. But either I have not gotten to the place you ran your cell or my search has left the sulphuric cell out for some reason? I have someone more up on computers than I that's going to take a look at my computer tomorrow. Hopefully I will be able to watch the videos, from everything I have heard from the forum they helped tremendously. Thanks kadriver,
Thanks, Oneal58

Oneal58:

I recall having to allow the acid in my stripping cell to settle for several days like Phil pointed out.

Eventually you could see through the acid and the black material had collected on the bottom of the cell.

The acid was not crystal clear, it was still dark, but transparent.

I have saved a bunch of gold plated jewelry that has been accumulating. I may have to get the sufuric acid stripping cell set up and get it running again.

I think December 2010 was the last time that I ran it.

Back then I was too green and anxious to have to wait for the black gold powder to build up in the cell - let alone the idea of having to wait for it to settle.

Since I have gained a little more experience, hopefully I have gained some patience.

thanks - kadriver

 

[qst42know]

Your acid may never be transparent clear again more like coffee colored, at least not while still concentrated. I have encountered quite a bit of gold filled on silver both marked and not marked. This may be why your acid is still dark, and that would explain why your pieces kept fizzing.

Have you been to the bottom to see what has settled? The color of the acid is less important than what has dropped, at least for now. As long as it hasn't absorbed too much water from the air it can be used again.

 

[Oneal58]

Hi qst42know, thank you.
I have taken a little look at the bottom of the casserole and there is powder there. That is why I decided to decant. I have went to extra pains keeping the water out of the sulphuric. I forgot one night and left the cover off the cell and had an open window near by, but it did not rain that night and the humidity was low, thank goodness. (Question-1) Is there a way to tell if the electrolyte has absorbed water into it? I dried off even the alligator clips before re-inserting them back over the solution and would only let the very tip of the clip touch the sulphuric. I was using a basket I made out of #10 bare copper wire but found out I was not getting the reaction I thought I was getting at first. I would get good amperage flow at first and then the amps would drop back to around .5 amps and the fizzing would stop. The amperage would stay at .5 amps, so I assumed the deplating was complete and the .5 amps was because of the resistance of my hand made basket in the circuit. When I started taking a closer look at the items I had stripped, I could still see gold under the oxidized black coating. When I would hook the pieces up individually I would get good amperage flow again and more fizzing. Of course not as much as before but enough to let me know that gold was still there, I was leaving some gold on the pieces. So I changed my setup and went to hooking each piece up individually and then making up some pigtails, (jumpers) so I could run more pieces at one time. I went back through all the pieces I had previously stripped. That kept me busy changing out pieces but I would rather do that right now than just sit there and wait. Also, I have confidence that I am getting all the gold plate off.
I got one more question if you don't mind. (Question-2) When you say that you had ran into goldplated silver? I have ran into the same thing. So, if I left the gold on silver in the cell after the gold was gone this will cause the the electrolyte to be really black also? So, I will have some silver in the electrolyte solution in amounts I wasn't expecting?
Thank you qst42know for your responses, thank goodness for this site! I can't say this often enough, I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't of found this site with all the willing members to guide me!
Oneal58

Your acid may never be transparent clear again more like coffee colored, at least not while still concentrated. I have encountered quite a bit of gold filled on silver both marked and not marked. This may be why your acid is still dark, and that would explain why your pieces kept fizzing.
Have you been to the bottom to see what has settled? The color of the acid is less important than what has dropped, at least for now. As long as it hasn't absorbed too much water from the air it can be used again.

 

[philddreamer]

"(Question-1) Is there a way to tell if the electrolyte has absorbed water into it?"
I only left it incovered for a few days in the garage when I first started learning the process last year, & noticed the level of the liquid went up. Since, I've been covering the container & I've made the habit of putting a mark, that way I know how much acid I begin with in the container.
If I notice the volume goes up, well its time to heat & evaporate some of the water. I do this after I have recovered the values & filtered.

Take care!

Phil

 

[qst42know]

1. I am certain there is a way to tell if the electrolyte has absorbed to much water but I'm not familiar with the method. Perhaps someone who is, will chime in.

2. The cell will strip silver plate or attack solid silver and the solution does go black and may change the conductivity of the electrolyte. But no one can agree on a method to get the silver out.

Dilute by slowly pouring the acid into 3 volumes of water. Be careful and slow this will get hot. Some material should settle and this should be the last of the gold. The dilute acid can be recycled by evaporating but this is very dangerous and may not be cost effective if you don't pay much for new acid.

There are a couple of methods that may work to recover the silver when the acid won't function any more. I have not fully investigated these methods so keep that in mind.

And now the questionable, at best experimental steps you may want to skip altogether.

A. Cement the dilute acid with iron, iron should push the silver out of solution along with other base metals. I recall from the memory of a very old text (early 1800s I think) this was used by the Philadelphia mint for recovering silver from Dore gold.

B. From memory another member a very long time ago reported that adding HCL to the dilute acid produced silver chloride that then settled to the bottom. I have tried this very small scale and it seemed to work, but produced the strong odor of chlorine gas, very dangerous stuff.

[spelling edit]

 

[butcher]

Hoke I believe talked about getting the silver out of concentrated sulfuric acid, by pouring the acid into volumes of water to make it real dilute, (never pour water into acid), then adding table salt to form silver chloride.
(this was in C.M. Hoke in alternative method of using concentrated sulfuric acid rather than nitric acid to part the gold and silver (karat gold), if my memory is not failing).

So from what she says, and what we know:
(Two moles) table salt (NaCl) and sulfuric acid (H2SO4) together form --> hydrochloric acid (two moles) (HCl) and sodium sulfate (Na2SO4).

2NaCl + H2SO4 --> 2HCl + Na2SO4

Silver chloride would form, and precipitate, my only concern would be keeping the sodium sulfate soluble (dilution may solve that?).

Note above this would no longer be sulfuric acid and could not be reused in your cell, and I also do not know about the chlorine gas fumes qst42know has mentioned.

A downside is not being able to reuse the H2SO4 as sulfuric acid.

I am still under the opinion (no proof) that the concentrated H2SO4 could only hold so much silver (or any other metal), before it was loaded (saturated) and any more dissolved (through electrolysis) would precipitate as sludge, who knows.

 

[qst42know]

I am still under the opinion (no proof) that the concentrated H2SO4 could only hold so much silver (or any other metal), before it was loaded (saturated) and any more dissolved (through electrolysis) would precipitate as sludge, who knows.

My small experiments on silver plate indicate the solution becomes less and less effective at stripping, to the point of stopping altogether. There may have been some on the bottom at that point but I don't recall, and the acid was quite dark. Any silver plated iron introduced to the mix somehow prevented the stripping action as well.

 

[Oneal58]

Hi Phil, thank you for your answers. I too watch the level of the cell. I am losing some quantity each time I strip. I have lost approx 10-15% of the quantity I started with. I think a lot of this is due to me dragging the pieces out of the solution that is wet with acid and I am losing acid in this manner each time. Plus my electrolyte gets quiet warm sometimes and I think I am losing some acid through evaporation. Thanks Phil,
Oneal58

"(Question-1) Is there a way to tell if the electrolyte has absorbed water into it?"
I only left it incovered for a few days in the garage when I first started learning the process last year, & noticed the level of the liquid went up. Since, I've been covering the container & I've made the habit of putting a mark, that way I know how much acid I begin with in the container.
If I notice the volume goes up, well its time to heat & evaporate some of the water. I do this after I have recovered the values & filtered.

Take care!

Phil