Refining Gold from Gold Filled Jewelry

[Oneal58]

Hi Tom, I have posted so many questions I get mixed up on them. If I haven't thanked you for your post I want to do that now. You have cleared up many questions that I had and I appreciate it. I get what you are saying about troubleshooting the system even before my first strip. Ok, I will just get on with it. I have stalled long enough. If everything goes well the next couple of days I will at least have some powder in the bottom of the cell to admire.
Is there a time limit to how long one can leave the powder in the cell with the sulphuric while the rectifier is off? I have read here on the forum that some just leave the gold in the cell and just let it concentrate until the electrolyte gets so heavy laden with gold that the cell starts to short. Then it is time to decant and start over? They didn't post if they were talking about an hour, day, week or month?
Thanks, Oneal58

November 20th, 2011, 1:01 pm
Thanks Tom, that has cleared that up for me. I appreciate your help and everyone's help here. I am sure thankful this site is here.
Tom, I have made a cell and I have used #10 bare copper ground wire as my frame. I then took and stripped telephone wire and made a basket weave pattern to lay my material on. I don't have any sides or front on the frame. My thinking is to keep the Faraday effect to a minimum. ...
Oneal58

1) When I hook my cathode and anode up can I parallel off of the main voltage supply to say 2 other locations on the anode and cathode?

Yes you can but it’s not necessary. All that is needed it a GOOD connection on each.

2) If I remember correctly voltage in a series DC circuit is additive and voltage in a parallel DC circuit stays the same and the amps /current flow is additive. So, if I put the main power supply in the middle and branched off the main supply to each end of the anode and cathode would this help or hurt.

Not necessary, can only bring more problems than it possibly could solve.

3) But, by doing this may short the circuit out easily? Have you heard of anyone trying this? And the main thing is does it help any to do this? It seems like it would but I am not sure. I will be using lead as my anode and it is solid. I don't know if it would help on the anode, but could it hurt?

Again, Not necessary, possibly can bring more problems than it could solve.

4) Just alligator clip over to each end of the anode and cathode from the supply in the middle? After thinking about this, it may give you more current flow say if you have your anode and cathode too far apart. About what distance apart (anode/cathode) do you set your cell up to run?

My cell is 4” wide and I hang the cathode on one side and the anode on the other.

5) Have you ever made a mistake and tried stripping a karat piece? If you have what does it look like, does it turn dark or keep its gold color?

Never done this. I don’t know the answer.

6) One more question and I will stop bothering you. About how many seconds do you allow your circuit to run. Or how many seconds does it take to strip down a heavy necklace when cell is set up right? Is it best to keep the necklaces hooked together so the current can form a loop on each piece. I can see this helping if the necklace its touching is only touching another piece in one place that has a good connection with the cathode?

I’ve never timed the process, I just watch the process and when the current drops I will stir the pieces with a glass rod, watch the ammeter and remove the pieces when the current drops and stays low.


I haven’t experimented much with this process. My main concern is not to reinvent the wheel, but to understand what is happening IN the process and then adjust my parameters to get the setup that produces the best repeatable results.
But I did start with the basic setup first, as should you. That way any questions you ask can easily be answered without trying to troubleshoot the system before the process.

Tom C.

 

[niteliteone]

Oneal58
I'm glad I've been able to answer your questions. It helps me learn too. :shock:
Some of the questions you asked left me with questions too, so I went back to review the forum posts before giving you my answers. 8) Since others will read these posts, I want to be sure the information posted is correct and flows with the teaching of others.

For your question about removing the gold frrom the cell, what I have come up with is, it is a slow process compared to others, so it is OK to hold off until the cell becomes quite full, but before shorting out.
As long as you are able to keep the cell sealed against moisture getting to the acid, diluting it to a point that it causes adverse conditions for further use.
Remember it is important to have as little H20 in the sulfuric acid as possible since to much moisture will allow the acid to attack the base metals thus causing more problems down the road.

I hope this answers your questions
Tom C.

 

[Oneal58]

Morning Butcher, just wanted to say Hi. I haven't heard from you in a couple of days so I thought I would check in on you. I am leaving this morning to meet kadriver in Moncks Corner. It's a little town on the way to his place we decided to meet at. He is meeting me to give me some Nitric Acid, I am excited about this. You know Butcher, kadriver even invited me over to his house to spend the day without ever meeting me. I thought this was beyond the call for anyone to go out of their way to help someone else without knowing them first. I felt that taking him up on the offer was just too much to ask of him until he knows me better. I very much wanted to take him up on the offer and wanted to with all my heart but I felt like I just didn't need to impose myself upon him this much at first. But when I meet him today I hope to tell him that once he gets to know me better maybe the offer will still be there to visit him and his family at his place and take a look at his operation. I could spend a couple of hours with him and I would learn a ton!
But I hope you are doing well today Butcher. Butcher do you refine silver as well or just gold?
Oh well, I need to get a shower to get on the road. I will talk to you later. Thanks Butcher, Oneal

I also think Kadriver is great for extending his hand in friendship here, that is a fair price, and very nice gesture.


I love to hear the auctioneer sing, but try to stay away from them, as you say seems like the price can go up before I can put my hand down, or I just do not know when to quit raising my hand.

 

[butcher]

Oneal,
I think it is great you and Kadriver will get to meet each other hope you both have a good time.

I have recoverd some silver, and have used the nitric treatment to make it a higher grade silver, but have been waiting untill I get enough silver collected before I try refining it in the cell.

I am a small time hobby miner, waste recoverer and refiner, I actually spend more time recovering metals than refining them (small time shade tree refiner).

be careful on the road.

 

[Oneal58]

Hi Butcher, I am glad to see you are still around. I would have thought you would be at an auction somewhere? Well, I can't call myself a shade tree refiner yet. But I'll bet there is a lot of modesty being displayed here?
Butcher I am just getting in from my meeting with kadriver today. What a guy he is. He took hours going into detail on every single process he used to refine his gold. It's unbelieveable that someone would do that for someone else. Go out of their way that far for others. He brought me the Nitric I needed. He also brought me some other chemicals, copper alligator clips, tin, Etc;. The things he said I would need to get started. I felt so guilty that he took so much time with me I wanted to pay him something for his time. Of course he would not take a penny. I honestly didn't think people like that were still around. I will always be endebted to him, always. I was just overwhelmed by his kindness and unselfish heart, I was blown away, honestly! I would always strive to have such a heart. I truely have been blessed today. It makes you feel good to know that these type people are among us, still. I could only hope to have such a heart.
Butcher, this Nitric that I got from kadriver will give me a baseline to compare my homemade Nitric to.
I stopped by a new fertilizer supplier that said he would order a bag of Potassium Nitrate for me so I will have it in the future to make my homemade Nitric. The dealer said he could not get Sodium Nitrate for me? The fertilizer dealer asked me if I wanted soluable or insoluable. Which one do I use, what is the difference? My next question, you probably already know what it is? Do you mind sharing your process with me to make Nitric out of Potassium Nitrate. What strength do you normally end up with, normally? If not, I understand, totally.
Thanks Butcher,
Oneal58

Oneal,
I think it is great you and Kadriver will get to meet each other hope you both have a good time.

I have recoverd some silver, and have used the nitric treatment to make it a higher grade silver, but have been waiting untill I get enough silver collected before I try refining it in the cell.

I am a small time hobby miner, waste recoverer and refiner, I actually spend more time recovering metals than refining them (small time shade tree refiner).

be careful on the road.

 

[Oneal58]

Hi kadriver, my head is still spinning from today. My brain is overloaded just trying to get some notes on paper from what you have taught me today! I don't know why in the world I wasn't taking notes? I didn't expect you to open your entire process up to me, it took me by surprise! I can truely say that I was not prepared for such a course taught over hours.
I can't believe you took up hours with me, instructing me how you refine your gold, step by step. I did not go prepared to receive the instructions you gave me. You went into detail of your entire process. You just can't put a price on this type information. Being able to ask you the questions I needed to and have you answer them right on the spot. I truely regret not taking notes, I really do. You brought me the Nitric Acid and also other chemicals, copper alligator clips, tin, etc;. Items that you said I needed to get started, and gave them to me! I just don't know how to say this, I am just overwhelmed by your big unselfish heart. It really feels good to know that I live in the same world as such people. Wanting nothing other than to help me? I don't know how I will ever repay you for your help. I honestly hope you need something that I can get or have something that you need in the future. I feel so obligated, endebted to you. I just don't know how other to express what I am trying to say other than I have truely been blessed today to meet such a wonderful person. I still can't believe it? I am so much closer to my goal now than I was this morning it's unbelieveable. You have made a life long lasting impression on me that I dare to attempt to strive for. I have never meet a more unselfish, honest person who really just wanted to help. Expecting or wanting nothing in return. You are few and far between kadriver. I would fly with you anywhere. I felt I needed to post this on the forum so others could see what type of person you really are.
Thank you kadriver, from the bottom of my heart.
Oneal58 and wife

Oneal58:

When I first started refining about a year ago, I set up a sulfuric acid stripping cell and ran gold plated items through it for some 20 hours, give or take.

I found a post that described the cell clean out proceedure. Using that process, I recovered a few grams of gold from the stripping cell. It was very satisfying to get those few grams.

It was fun, and a great refining experience. But for the amount of time it took to get those few grams of gold it just seemed impractical - to me.

On the other hand, this is probably the only practical way to remove the gold from gold plated items.

I still have the stripping cell components, but I have never set it up and ran it since that first time.

For some, running a stripping cell may be the only source of gold that can be had.

I would encourage you to proceed with your stripping cell. I can verify that It does produce gold for refining.

Also, here is the post of the first gold bar I refined from karat scrap jewelry that I mentioned to you.

EDIT:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8322

END EDIT

It has many pages and gives a detailed account with lots of photos of the process I used as a first-time refiner attempting to refine my first gold bar. It was done under the guidance of this forum.

During this refining I experienced a mishap that resulted in the loss of some of my gold. I was performing a second treatment of the inquarted gold in concentrated nitric acid after the first treatment with dilute 50/50 nitric.

There are many posts from some of the most experienced refiners on the forum as they helped me through the process.

kadriver

 

[butcher]

Here is the classic method to make nitric acid, worked out early in the forum’s history; (Thanks to Steve and GSP brainstorming),
I find it one of the best ways to make nitric acid without distilling.

The cold method is not good for use with silver (sulfates salts formed make troubles with silver), for silver you should distill the homemade nitric acid to get nitric without any sulfate salts, or buy the nitric acid.


http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=2572#2572

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5825




http://goldrecovery.us/forum_search.asp

Here is one of my favorites, for dissolving copper from gold plated pins and making nitric acid in same reaction:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6199&hilit=killing+two+birds+one+rock

 

[nickvc]

Oneal58 it says it all on the heading of the forum...Hobbyists and professionals helping one another.
For most long term members and regular contributors to the forum that holds true.
While at times we may seem to be unhelpful to noobies it's for their own good that we point them in the direction of reading Hoke and studying refining in depth,it saves time and avoids misunderstandings if we all talk the same language and have the basics covered.
The big news for most noobs is that nearly all of us learn something virtually every visit to the forum however long we have been refining, it's that huge a subject that no one knows it all.
I wish you luck in your quest and enjoy the learning and the results that that you achieve, you will have earned them.

 

[kadriver]

Oneal58:

I enjoyed our time together as well. I have been accused of being an instructor of sorts. I like to do it for four reason:

1) because I enjoy it.
2) a sense of duty to the profession.
3) as a tribute to those who took the time to instruct me.
4) it helps reinforce the knowlege base that I have.

I believe that the world is harsh and life can be tough.

It truely is wonderful to be able to make someone's life easier, if only for a short time.

It is the little things that are within our power; opening doors for elderly people, allowing a young mother to go ahead in the grocery line. It's these small things that can make a big difference in the lives of others.

You have my number, feel free to call me any time you have a question. If it is at my skill level, then I will try to answer it the best I can.

If it is beyond my skill level, then I will probably tell you to consult this forum.

By the way, you can find a stannous chloride recipe by simply typing in those words in the search block at the top of this page.

Good luck in your refining!

kadriver

 

[kadriver]

I almost forgot, here is the video I spoke of at our meeting yesterday:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTBBYogskS8[/youtube]

Some of the processes have changed since I made this video.

For example, today I would never drop the gold using sodium metabisulfite dissolved in distilled water - it just creates excess waste. Adding the powder to the container of dissolved gold while stirring vigorously is the best way to go for now.

Also, I would never drop the gold in the large beaker without having it set inside of a cornigware casserole dish (or some other suitable container) to catch the AuCl if it boils over.

I have had AuCl solutions boil over onto my work bench as I was adding sodium metabisulfite due to excess heat and to much nitric acid left in the solution. This caused some of the gold to be lost!

Today, I would add about 5 ice cubes of distilled water and cool the solution before dropping the gold - especially if the solution is highly concentrated - say five ounces or more in less that a liter of liquid.

Hope this is helpful to you.

kadriver

 

[Oneal58]

Hi Butcher, thanks for your reply. I plan on using the homemade nitric down the road to process silver. So the cold methods would not be the way to go, right? I have a distilling condenser so I guess the last method would be the route to go?
I can get large bags of potassium nitrate fertilizer, so will the same process work with (substitue) potassium nitrate instead of sodium nitrate? Butcher I know there are many post on how to make the nitric but I trust you to give me the best one. Lazersteve said he had an updated process now that he uses. I have trouble with Lazersteve's site with my computer for some reason. I cannot play the videos on his site on my computer? Have you ever watched any of the videos, did you have trouble downloading any of the videos?
Thanks Butcher for your answer.
Oneal58

Here is the classic method to make nitric acid, worked out early in the forum’s history; (Thanks to Steve and GSP brainstorming),
I find it one of the best ways to make nitric acid without distilling.

The cold method is not good for use with silver (sulfates salts formed make troubles with silver), for silver you should distill the homemade nitric acid to get nitric without any sulfate salts, or buy the nitric acid.


http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=2572#2572

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5825




http://goldrecovery.us/forum_search.asp

Here is one of my favorites, for dissolving copper from gold plated pins and making nitric acid in same reaction:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6199&hilit=killing+two+birds+one+rock

 

[Oneal58]

Hi kadriver, hope you are doing well today. I will watch the videos in their entirety today. I am in the middle of trying to get some gold plated items stripped today, finally. From what I am seeing so far though, there is very little gold on the gold plating items that I have. But I will keep posting my results. Right now I am letting the sulphuric cool back down to run another batch. I am going to move to another vessel to see if my cathode and anode are too close together causing the acid to heat up too quickly. :?: Thanks kadriver,
Oneal58

I

I almost forgot, here is the video I spoke of at our meeting yesterday:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTBBYogskS8[/youtube]

Some of the processes have changed since I made this video.

For example, today I would never drop the gold using sodium metabisulfite dissolved in distilled water - it just creates excess waste. Adding the powder to the container of dissolved gold while stirring vigorously is the best way to go for now.

Also, I would never drop the gold in the large beaker without having it set inside of a cornigware casserole dish (or some other suitable container) to catch the AuCl if it boils over.

I have had AuCl solutions boil over onto my work bench as I was adding sodium metabisulfite due to excess heat and to much nitric acid left in the solution. This caused some of the gold to be lost!

Today, I would add about 5 ice cubes of distilled water and cool the solution before dropping the gold - especially if the solution is highly concentrated - say five ounces or more in less that a liter of liquid.

Hope this is helpful to you.

kadriver

 

[Oneal58]

Hi nickvc, thank you for your post. I understand completely. I can't see how anyone would attempt to get started without first reading Hoke's Book plus other material and reading this forum to be honest. To start something you must first have a starting line defined. Which I didn't have before I read the material and found this forum. As you said, it must be earned. To be honest with you, at my level of intelligence I could not achieve success without the study material and this forum for help. It's still very envolved for me. Thanks nickvc,
Oneal58

Oneal58 it says it all on the heading of the forum...Hobbyists and professionals helping one another.
For most long term members and regular contributors to the forum that holds true.
While at times we may seem to be unhelpful to noobies it's for their own good that we point them in the direction of reading Hoke and studying refining in depth,it saves time and avoids misunderstandings if we all talk the same language and have the basics covered.
The big news for most noobs is that nearly all of us learn something virtually every visit to the forum however long we have been refining, it's that huge a subject that no one knows it all.
I wish you luck in your quest and enjoy the learning and the results that that you achieve, you will have earned them.

 

[butcher]

Oneal58,
I also have trouble seeing any video's, with a very slow computer and dial up modem connection, that keeps disconnecting every few minutes, virtually impossible to watch a video.

The difference in using potassium nitrate KNO3 and sodium nitrate NaNO3 are ratios used.

They both work very well; potassium salts formed from reaction (K2SO4) seem to me to be more insoluble (cooling too quickly seems to trap some nitric in the K2SO4 salts), (potassium salts are easier on our environment, as sodium forms salts that plants do not like).

The sodium nitrate salts are nice to make nitric from and to me seem hold less nitric acid in the salts (Na2SO4), but these salts seem to be more soluble and even after chilling they still seem to be somewhat soluble in the nitric acid.

Like I said earlier depending on what I am doing determines which one I prefer,

Your distilling unit should be lab glass, or you could use the pickle jar method I gave you a link to, both need precautions to insure safety, and keeping glassware from breaking.

There is much information on the forum of making and using nitric acid, so much that it would be hard for us to retype most all of it, so going back and reading the forum will give you more information than asking a lot of questions will, I have spent a whole lot of time studying nitric acid, making it in all concentrations, concentrating it, and the chemistry of it, some of the main points I have posted about nitric acid over the years, I keep a large note book just on this subject, (I have never had a good memory so I must keep notes of what I learn), so if you come up with a question about nitric acid I may be able to help, if not someone else here on the forum can.

The links I posted earlier are just a couple that I thought would help you get started, there are many many more great posts with information on this subject, the study of nitric acid this in itself can become a very deep subject, a man could probably spend most of his life just learning about nitric acid.

You can make a large batch of nitric acid using the cold method, and distill a portion of this for your silver needs. Or when you and Kadriver need some maybe you guys could go in together and buy what you need.

it is the sulfate salts formed from the sulfuric acid and the sodium or potassium that give problems with silver sulfate is not very soluble.

You asked earlier about soluble or insoluble KNO3 fertilizer, I think you should get soluble, as the insoluble may be prills with some type of coating (waxy?) to make them dissolve more slowly in the soil.

 

[Oneal58]

Hi Butcher,
I called the fertilizer dealer and ordered the 50 lb or 60 lb. bag of Potassium Nitrate Fertilizer. I am to pick it up monday. It's the soluable type that you instructed me to purchase. I guess I will just keep the 2 bags of Ammonia Nitrate I have purchased to put to the Garden and Flowers in the yard next spring.
I am going to spend the holidays studying the methods of making the Nitric from the Potassium Nitrate since I can get all I want at a good (farmers) price. I plan to strip large/small silver plated items also along with what gold I can scrounge up. But I know I have a good and steady supply of silver plated items that I can get at really good prices. I am in hopes I can get enough silver off of the pieces to make it worth wild (profitable) for me to recover. It will be a slow process to learn the plating thicknesses (returns) on the hundreds of different makers of the silverplated items. Each company, which their are hundreds of, more than likely had different thicknesses of silver they applied to their products. So I will need to keep track of the amounts of silver per square inch of plating or whatever the best method will be for me to use to keep track of the returns of each. I am sure I will go through a lot of Nitric Acid so I would have to make it myself for this venture to be profitable. Hopefully I will find a good source of gold and will not have to refine the silverplate. But everyone is after the gold, as you are well aware of. I have a friend who owns/operates his own computer repair shop. I am in hopes of getting his scraps but he currently sells them on Ebay. I am sure I could match this price at least. My offer would be less than what he could get off Ebay but he would not have all the expenses/work involved by listing on Ebay. But, that route also keeps me processing the plated material. I would much rather be in the refinning of the Karat gold as would everyone else and his brother. So hopefully I will find a source of the Karat Gold later on down the road. The Karat Gold as you know, would be less of a headache from what I have learned so far. It would also be much more profitable time wise (amount of material handled) than the plated material. Thank you Butcher, if I hit a snag on making my Nitric next week I may have to bother you. Thank you for all your help Butcher.
Oneal58

Oneal58,
I also have trouble seeing any video's, with a very slow computer and dial up modem connection, that keeps disconnecting every few minutes, virtually impossible to watch a video.

The difference in using potassium nitrate KNO3 and sodium nitrate NaNO3 are ratios used.

They both work very well; potassium salts formed from reaction (K2SO4) seem to me to be more insoluble (cooling too quickly seems to trap some nitric in the K2SO4 salts), (potassium salts are easier on our environment, as sodium forms salts that plants do not like).

The sodium nitrate salts are nice to make nitric from and to me seem hold less nitric acid in the salts (Na2SO4), but these salts seem to be more soluble and even after chilling they still seem to be somewhat soluble in the nitric acid.

Like I said earlier depending on what I am doing determines which one I prefer,

Your distilling unit should be lab glass, or you could use the pickle jar method I gave you a link to, both need precautions to insure safety, and keeping glassware from breaking.

There is much information on the forum of making and using nitric acid, so much that it would be hard for us to retype most all of it, so going back and reading the forum will give you more information than asking a lot of questions will, I have spent a whole lot of time studying nitric acid, making it in all concentrations, concentrating it, and the chemistry of it, some of the main points I have posted about nitric acid over the years, I keep a large note book just on this subject, (I have never had a good memory so I must keep notes of what I learn), so if you come up with a question about nitric acid I may be able to help, if not someone else here on the forum can.

The links I posted earlier are just a couple that I thought would help you get started, there are many many more great posts with information on this subject, the study of nitric acid this in itself can become a very deep subject, a man could probably spend most of his life just learning about nitric acid.

You can make a large batch of nitric acid using the cold method, and distill a portion of this for your silver needs. Or when you and Kadriver need some maybe you guys could go in together and buy what you need.

it is the sulfate salts formed from the sulfuric acid and the sodium or potassium that give problems with silver sulfate is not very soluble.

You asked earlier about soluble or insoluble KNO3 fertilizer, I think you should get soluble, as the insoluble may be prills with some type of coating (waxy?) to make them dissolve more slowly in the soil.

 

[Oneal58]

Hi Tom,
I need to ask you a question if you don't mind? I have been running my goldplated items through the sulphuric cell tonight. When I start the cell up I get anywhere from 6-8 amps and then after about 25-45 seconds the current drops to less than 1 amp (about .5 amps). I was worried at first I wasn't getting the gold off but I have inspected the pieces that's comming out of the cell and as far as I can tell it's getting all the gold? I get no reaction when tray is put back into the acid and almost no current flow.
Is this a normal time (25-45 seconds) to do the stripping of the Jewelry pieces. The reason I ask is I watched the video on youtube of Lazersteve's stripping of the necklaces. He had his rectifier still working on the necklaces after10 minutes if I remember correctly? I wanted to consult with you about this. If I am getting almost no current flow on the amp meter the process is complete, isn't it? Even if it hasn't been but 25-45 seconds. I am trying to put at least 150 grams in at a time because of the size of my home made tray. My tray is not big enough to get anymore in at a time. But Lazersteve's doing 200 grams and going 5-10 minutes. Even at 50 grams more material there shouldn't be that much time difference, should they?
Just wanting to ask you what is the average time your cell is taking to strip your goldplated items? I am just concerned that I may not be getting all the gold off during this short amount of time? Even if the items look like the gold is gone and the amps have dropped.
Thanks in advance Tom for any advice.
Oneal58

Hi Tom, I have posted so many questions I get mixed up on them. If I haven't thanked you for your post I want to do that now. You have cleared up many questions that I had and I appreciate it. I get what you are saying about troubleshooting the system even before my first strip. Ok, I will just get on with it. I have stalled long enough. If everything goes well the next couple of days I will at least have some powder in the bottom of the cell to admire.
Is there a time limit to how long one can leave the powder in the cell with the sulphuric while the rectifier is off? I have read here on the forum that some just leave the gold in the cell and just let it concentrate until the electrolyte gets so heavy laden with gold that the cell starts to short. Then it is time to decant and start over? They didn't post if they were talking about an hour, day, week or month?
Thanks, Oneal58

November 20th, 2011, 1:01 pm
Thanks Tom, that has cleared that up for me. I appreciate your help and everyone's help here. I am sure thankful this site is here.
Tom, I have made a cell and I have used #10 bare copper ground wire as my frame. I then took and stripped telephone wire and made a basket weave pattern to lay my material on. I don't have any sides or front on the frame. My thinking is to keep the Faraday effect to a minimum. ...
Oneal58

1) When I hook my cathode and anode up can I parallel off of the main voltage supply to say 2 other locations on the anode and cathode?

Yes you can but it’s not necessary. All that is needed it a GOOD connection on each.

2) If I remember correctly voltage in a series DC circuit is additive and voltage in a parallel DC circuit stays the same and the amps /current flow is additive. So, if I put the main power supply in the middle and branched off the main supply to each end of the anode and cathode would this help or hurt.

Not necessary, can only bring more problems than it possibly could solve.

3) But, by doing this may short the circuit out easily? Have you heard of anyone trying this? And the main thing is does it help any to do this? It seems like it would but I am not sure. I will be using lead as my anode and it is solid. I don't know if it would help on the anode, but could it hurt?

Again, Not necessary, possibly can bring more problems than it could solve.

4) Just alligator clip over to each end of the anode and cathode from the supply in the middle? After thinking about this, it may give you more current flow say if you have your anode and cathode too far apart. About what distance apart (anode/cathode) do you set your cell up to run?

My cell is 4” wide and I hang the cathode on one side and the anode on the other.

5) Have you ever made a mistake and tried stripping a karat piece? If you have what does it look like, does it turn dark or keep its gold color?

Never done this. I don’t know the answer.

6) One more question and I will stop bothering you. About how many seconds do you allow your circuit to run. Or how many seconds does it take to strip down a heavy necklace when cell is set up right? Is it best to keep the necklaces hooked together so the current can form a loop on each piece. I can see this helping if the necklace its touching is only touching another piece in one place that has a good connection with the cathode?

I’ve never timed the process, I just watch the process and when the current drops I will stir the pieces with a glass rod, watch the ammeter and remove the pieces when the current drops and stays low.


I haven’t experimented much with this process. My main concern is not to reinvent the wheel, but to understand what is happening IN the process and then adjust my parameters to get the setup that produces the best repeatable results.
But I did start with the basic setup first, as should you. That way any questions you ask can easily be answered without trying to troubleshoot the system before the process.

Tom C.

 

[butcher]

Oneal, I have played with the silver plate, and believe it is a fun learning experience but cost me more than any little silver I get from it, you are correct your goal should be a higher grade scrap, the electronic waste and others are fun and at the same time challenging, but unless you can get large volumes for free, it also does not seem to me to be too profitable (if you take into account money spent (paid my dues to Ebay learning)(chemicals are not that cheap) time involved and dealing with waste).

I do like to mess with low value scrap it keeps my hobby busy, and I try and not let this hobby cost me too much, which when dealing and buying low grade scrap it can easily cost me money and put me in the red, and I like the challenge, but the higher grade scrap is my goal also, I live out in the country, so garage sales I have not been able to do,(have you seen how Kadrivers wife is a master at these?), so I take any spare dime I have and go to my local gold buyer (coin dealer), he is a very honest man, and sells me karat gold and sterling for melt value, now this if I refined and sold the same day I would loose money, but if refined and sold when gold price was higher I will make money, or if our dollar goes down to pennies in value the gold will feed my family.

Also trying to get my skills up to maybe get some jewelers low grade materials, a couple of jewelers I have talked to, do not deal with their sweeps and do not even think about things like rugs and sink traps, but even here I will have to gain trust to get the business, even if they just toss this dust now, if I could prove my skills maybe then I could gain their confidence and get a chance to see if I could do better for them than their present refiner, also talked to the dentist's man who casts dental teeth of these valuable metals they send out the scrap to get it refined and have not much clue as to if they are getting all they could from their scrap, they probably just let the janitor sweep their valuable dust into the trash also (the patient has already paid them for these metals), but first I need some more practice, be able to provide them a profit on their scrap, gain their trust in dealing with me, and get a better place fixed up to refine, (better than this table under the oak tree with a tarp in the rain and snow, that reminds me I need to get my tarp put back up if this rain will slow down), I do not want a big refining business, but just a working hobby that pay's for itself, where I can learn about refining, and maybe get a few chunks of pretty metal for those rainy day's.

 

[Oneal58]

Hi anyone that can help. I am still trying to find my way around on the site. I didn't know if it was best to start a new thread or subject or just post on Butcher's reply to me. Maybe Butcher can tell me what I need to know about the site.
My question is this, I had a lengthy instructional class given to me by kadriver day before yesterday. I wasn't prepared for that and I didn't take notes. Kadriver and I think a lot alike and I am starting right where he started. We both have similar interest and will be doing similar refinning work with similar materials. He was telling me that the forum took him all the way through the process of getting his scrap gold filled/karat/silver jewelry refined by the members on the site.
I have been trying to go back and follow all the post that kadriver made with all the responses/questions answered by members on the forum. If I had a way of following him day by day (in the order) of the post I would not have to ask (as many questions) I still haven't found the answers to. I can do a search on kadriver but on each page, which there are 21 pages plus all the replies. When I start trying to follow kadriver and all the forums members answers to his questions, I get lost. I mean I end up not being able to follow him/members on a day by day basis without getting side tracked and lost each time. I have tried this numerous times with the same end result each time? If you understand what I am trying to do, can anyone tell me how the best way to go about it? With doing the search on kadriver I find where he first started asking questions here on the forum. But when I click on the questions I go to another page and I click on an answer there I go to another page and so on. Then I try to navigate my way back to the original page each time I follow a thread all the way through. This is very time consuming and confusing. Is there a way of getting the questions of kadriver and the answers by the forum members in order by date so I don't get lost each time.
Also on LazerSteve's site I can't seem to get my computer to open the videos there. I have broad band and a fairly fast computer running(Windows Vista, Home Premium with Service Pack 2 upgrade) but I get error messages when trying to look at his videos. Has anyone experienced similar problems with the videos there on the site?
Thanks to anyone who can help,
Oneal58

 

[kadriver]

Oneal58:

I experienced a similar problem while trying to view lazersteve's videos.

When I tried to watch a video, I would get some kind of error.

After several tries, I finally noticed that there was a yellow message bar appearing near the top of the screen each time I clicked on one of the videos I wanted to watch.

It just kind of pops up, and it is easy to miss it.

Once I noticed this yellow bar, I clicked on it and found some instructions that allowed me to run the videos on his site.

next time you try the videos, carefully look near the top of your screen for this yellow bar that appears after you select one of his videos. Click on it and follow the instructions.

I can't remember what it said, and since I have already clicked on the "allow" function in that yellow bar, I can't get it to repeat.

In other words, once enable, the yellow bar no longer appears, It just goes straight to the videos.

Also, you must click on the start button for each video after you select it. The videos do not start automatically after you click on them.

I am going by memory here so i may have left something out.

I have a great memory - it's just short!

Hope this is helpful to you.

kadriver (Kevin)

 

[butcher]

Oneal,
As far as trying to find and read all of Kadriver’s posts, and following them by date, here is what you might try:
Find one of his posts, click on profile at bottom of his post.
In profile click search users posts,(these should be in order of date) this will bring up his posts (17 pages like this:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&author_id=14587&start=320

Now maybe make notes of the section (he made the posts like help needed section) also the heading (like melting karat gold) and the date,

You may find a pattern here? Many of these posts may be in same sections.

Now go to forum and board index, go down to the heading like help needed, finding the title subject and read that one, the dates should be in order in the sections

Sorry I am not good on computers maybe some else will know a better way.

edit: changed the word karate to karat