Refining gold from karat scrap step by step beginner

Gold Refining Forum

Help Support Gold Refining Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
samuel-a said:
Not to speak for Harold, but i think he ment that an un even alloy was produced.
That can produce, for example a prill of 3K alloy and its neighbor being 8K alloy...
While that is a distinct possibility, that was never an issue for me. I stirred my inquarted gold religiously, and made certain that everything was in solution before pouring cornflakes.

My comment about proper inquarting was one whereby you shoot for 25% gold. I do NOT subscribe to the notion that more is better---not more gold, nor more silver. If you have too little silver, you experience uneven dissolution, often with thick sections remaining untreated. If you achieve 25%, or very close, that doesn't happen because the silver is never isolated from the nitric in use.

What I disliked even more than too little silver was too much silver. There are those that like to break up the gold as the silver is removed. That creates one hell of a lot more work, and, if you work without assays, as I did, you tend to cheat the customer. Miniscule particles of gold are carried away from the mass when the nitrates are removed. If you use cementation with copper to recover the silver, the gold reports in the slimes from the silver cell, but the customer has been cheated. I'm proud to say that when I'd process a few thousand ounces of silver, it was unusual for me to recover even a quarter ounce of gold, so my technique was quite good. I expect that the little that was lost was from those occasions where I managed to add too much silver. There were times when the resulting gold was reduced to black powder, something I tried hard to avoid.

Harold
 
So true Harold!
I've had times when I didn't have enough silver for the inquart & I ended with gold sponges that had silver still inside. When running the sponges thru AR, I ended with the white sediment... And on the other hand, like 2 days ago, wanting to refine some extra silver (for my silver cell anode), I added too much silver, knowing that I could end up with fine gold dust... :roll: Well, I'm glad the gold was mine, so it was just more trouble for me to filter & recover later, (which I already did).

The times I've added the right amount, beautiful results & much less hassles.
Here are the pic's of my first try some months ago, after putting into practice what I learned from Harold.

Thanks Harold!
 

Attachments

  • Dec '10 008.JPG
    Dec '10 008.JPG
    101.4 KB
  • Dec '10 007.JPG
    Dec '10 007.JPG
    92.7 KB
  • Dec '10 002.JPG
    Dec '10 002.JPG
    71.1 KB
Harold_V said:
Here are the pic's of my first try some months ago, after putting into practice what I learned from Harold.

Nurds **** :mrgreen: fine by me 8)

inquart1.JPG

inquart1hcladded.JPG

Only traces of AgCl left after AR digestion if: 1) Nitric leach is allowed to work it way, all the way. 2) Alloying ratio and consistency are done correctly.
just my 2 cents
 
Here's a shot of the alloy before nitric:

inquart_best.jpg


and after nitric:

inquart_gd.jpg


And the resulting gold bars:

twins_shine_8224g.jpg


Steve
 
rewalston said:
Oh those are sure pretty Steve, I'm drooling...sorry :)

Rusty

Anyone who makes the commitment to studying and practicing proper refining techniques can make bars like these.

Everything you need to know is right here on the forum.

Steve
 
Oh, I know it's all here Steve, I've read all of it...but I'm still drooling...I even have dreams at night of all things golden...now if I could just reclaim and refine the stuff in my dreams I'd be a rich man hehe.

Rusty
 
I know this thread is older and I hope I am not out of place but could someone direct me to the next steps in the process. Thank you.
 
Check out the Guided Tour Reaction list for the various refining methods and chemistry. The Forum Guide Rough Draft gives quick links to threads containing various keywords commonly used in the processes outlined in the Reactions List. Download Hokes book from the Guided Tour as well.
Then use the forum search to get the written details of how to do the method you choose to use.

Or if you are a visual learner you can buy my new DVD : Testing and Refining Karat Gold and see the enitre process from start to finish.

You can buy the DVD and other DVDs, plus key supplies via my web store link below.

Steve
 
scott228 said:
I know this thread is older and I hope I am not out of place but could someone direct me to the next steps in the process. Thank you.
You would be best served by reading Hoke's book. Knowing the next step will simply lead to the need to know the next step, and so on. If you'll read her book until you understand what she teaches, all of these questions will be answered, and they'll make sense to you.

You may know that Hoke's book is readily available as a free download. You'll find a link in many of the sig lines of readers. If all else fails, look for a post by Palladium. His sig line contains the link.

Harold
 
thanks for the advice I have already started on hoeks book and plan on getting the karat refining dvd soon, I look forward to exploring this more and continuing to learn from this fascinating forum.
 
Sorry - I had forgotten about this until I was reviewing some of my posts.

I revised the previous sections to eliminate the use of concentrated nitric acid while disgesting the inquarted gold. It is too dangerous and provides no benfit. Instead, I use dilute (50/50 nitric acid/distilled water). The section was edited and the edited remarks are in red letters.

Also, I used to transfer the gold to a different container. It is probably better to use the same container to do all the reactions.

However, I do use a seperate container to precipitate the gold - as per Harold's recommendation, I use a pristine, 2 liter beaker to drop the gold. Using a container that has scratches causes fine gold particles of gold to cling to the scratches. I avoid this by using a beaker free of scratches (pristine).

Here is the process that I use to dissolve the gold recovered from the inquarting process, using aqua regia.

If the inquarting was done properly, and the material was treated properly with the acids until the acid was nearly colorless with no more fumes, then the gold that remains is nealy pure. But there are still some impurities and the next process usually reveals them.

I start by washing the recovered gold (from the inquarting process) with plenty of DISTILLED water, right in the same container used for the inquarting. Make sure and rinse the inside of the container with a squirt bottle as you wash the gold to remove any silver nitrate clinging to the walls.

I add about 200ml or 300ml of distilled water to the recovered gold and give it a good swirl then allow everything to settle.

I carefully pour off the wash water into a seperate container and save it. This wash water contains silver. Later on, I precipitate the silver from the wash water using hydrochloric acid - the precipitate is allowed to settle and the resulting silver chloride is added to my silver jar.

After each wash, I pour a small sample of the wash water into a small 10ml beaker or test tube. I add a few drops of hydrochloric acid to this test water and look for a reaction of silver chloride.

If I see a cloud of silver chloride form after adding the hydrochloric acid, then I pour the test water into my wash water container and do another wash of the gold with more distilled water - I used about 200 to 400 ml of distilled water for each wash depending on how much gold I am working with.

I repeat this process, making sure to rinse the inside walls of the container as I go, until I get a clear test - no silver chloride formation in the sample of the wash water after adding hydrochloric acid.

It usually takes 4 or 5 washes until the test come out clear, but can take as many as 6 or 7 washes.

By thoroughly washing the recovered gold free of visible silver chloride in this manner, there is that much less silver chloride formed when I go to dissolve the gold with aqua regia. A gallon of distilled water cost me $0.87 at Walmart.

Once the gold is washed I calculate the amount of acid needed to dissolve the amount of gold that I have.

In this example, I determined that there was 40.839 grams of pure gold when I performed the calculations for inquarting. I will use this number to determine the amount of acid to use to dissolve the recovered gold.

I will use 41 rounded up from 40.839 grams.

Aqua regia is a mixture of two acids: 1 part nitric acid to 4 parts hydrochloric acid (some folks use 3 parts hydrochloric).

The nitric acid can be technical or ACS grades (68% to 70%)

The hydrochloric acid can be bought at Lowes (31.45%)

Using the number 41 from above, I will measure and add 164 ml of hydrochloric acid to the rinsed/washed gold (165ml of hydrochloric or even 170 would be ok). Do not add any nitric acid yet.

I pour the hydrochloric acid right in on top of the gold. This is where I get to see how effective my washing has been. If I washed properly, then there will be little if any silver chloride form upon addition of the hydrochloric acid.

One time I got in a hury and forgot to wash the gold after inquarting. I realized it as soon I poured in the hydrochloric acid and watched much silver chloride form around my gold.

Once the hydrochloric acid is in with the gold, I set the container (reaction vessel) in a corningware casserole dish, then I set the dish (with the reaction vessel inside) on my hot plate or burner. Do not add any nitric acid yet.

Add low heat and gently warm the hydrochloric acid and gold mixture. Do not boil this mixture ever - boiling will cause your gold to be carried off into the atmosphere with the vaposr emminating from your reaction vessel!

Next I measure out a small amount of nitric acid, in this case about 15 or 20 ml or so - roughly half the number of grams of gold I am working with.

Using a dropper, I add 2 or 3 ml of the nitric acid to the gently warmed container with the hydrochloric acid and gold mixture.

I wait a few minutes to see if the reaction (dissolving) starts. After a few minute I add 2 or 3 ml more nitric acid. The gold will start to bubble as the reaction starts.

The key here is patience. Take your time. Add the nitric acid in small increments.

Calculating the amount of nitric acid to use is somewhat of an enigma to me. The trick is to use just enough nitric acid to dissolve the gold, and no more. Excess nitric acid has to be eliminated before I can precipitate the gold.

Several places on this forum recommend 1ml nitric acid to dissolve 1 gram of gold - but my experience has been different.

Recently, I dissolved nearly 70 grams of gold with just 35 or 40 ml nitric acid. If I would have added 70ml of nitric acid (1ml nitric per gram of gold), then I would have way too much nitric.

Regardless - the most important thing I try to remember is to use just enough nitric acid to dissolve the gold I am working with, and no more.

I must leave now, I will continue this post untill it is complete. Read Hoke's book!

kadriver
 
Thank you for the comments, here goes right where I left off....

One safety note; the fumes produced from this reaction are different from the fumes created while dissolving the inquarted silver and base metals. But they are just as deadly. Make sure and do this reaction outside and away from people, pets, and metal objects (these fumes on metal will cause the metal to corrode almost instantly).

While dissolving the gold in aqua regia, newcomers (and some not so newcommers like myself until recently) add too much nitric acid in an effort to speed things up.

Adding fresh nitric acid will speed the process, but I will probably end up with much residual (excess) nitric acid that has to be removed before I can drop the gold.

By adding small amounts of nitric acid a little at a time I can better control the amount of nitric that I add to the reaction vessel.

When most of the gold has dissolved, there will be some small undissolved pieces emmiting tiny bubbles as they continue to dissolve - almost looks like the bubbles in a glass of chanpaigne.

When you see this, add the nitric acid in even smaller increments - a few drops at a time. Here is where patience really pays off.

As I said earlier - I used only about 35 to 40 ml of concentrated nitric acid to dissolve nearly 70 grams of pure gold.

Once all the gold has been dissolved, remove the container from the heat and allow it to cool for a few minutes.

I place the container with my dissolved gold inside a CLEAN corningware casserole dish or pyrex baking dish. This dish will catch your gold solution should you experience a boil over.

Placing the container inside the dish is a precaution. If you are careful and add chemicals in small amounts and wait for the reactions to stop completely before adding more, then you reduce the chance of a boil over. But they do happen from time to time especially for the beginner - better to have it and not need it, then the other way around.

I usually rinse down the insides of the reaction container with distilled water from a squirt bottle to get all the gold bearing liquid down into the main solution.

Next, I add some concentrated sulfuric acid - about 5 or 10 drops - to precipitate out any lead that may be present.

This is a good idea even if you are certain there is no lead in the solution, it does not hurt a thing (and may be helpful when evaporating later on) plus it helps ensure that no lead will make it into your final pure gold.

The resulting lead sulfate (if any) will precipitate out of the solution and get trapped in the filter during the filtering process.

The sulfuric acid can be purchased at Ace hardware. It is called Roto drain cleaner, or Liquid Fire drain cleaner.

Roto is my preference as it is nearly colorless - it comes in a white plastic bottle and is sealed inside a plastic bag.

The Liquid Fire works just as well, but it has orange dye in it. Liquid Fire comes in a red plastic bottle and is also sealed inside a plastic bag.

I believe that both of these products are 98% concentrated sulfuric acid.

Once the sulfuric acid has been added and stirred (or swirled nicely), the next thing I do is decide on what method I will use to remove excess nitric.

I have used two methods and each produces excellent results although each has advantages and disadvantages.

Method number one, and the one I use most frequently is; add some urea.

Urea is a course crystal chemical that is inexpensive and readily available. I buy mine off Ebay.

Urea will consume or "kill' residual or unused nitric acid from the aqua regia that I used to dissolve the gold.

The more excess nitric I have in my dissolved gold solution (called Auric Chloride Solution) the more urea will be required to eliminate the excess nitric acid.

I add the urea in small amounts (1/2 table spoon at a time) and stir with a glass rod to ensure that all the urea has reacted with the excess nitric in the solution. I continue to add urea until I get no more reaction or fizzing.

Adding too much urea at once, or adding more urea before the reaction from the previous addition is complete may cause a boil over. Patience and small incremental additions will greatly reduce the chance of a boil over.

If a boil over does happen, stand back and wait for everything to stop. Go get a cold soda, take a deep breath and thank yourself for putting that baking dish under the container.

Then, carefully rinse any auric chloride solution fron the outside of the container and set it aside on a clean surface. I would then pick up the dish that received the boiled over auric chloride and pour it back in with the main solution. It is critical to ensure this dish is clean before hand - you can see why.

If there is much excess nitric acid, there will be a vigoruos reaction upon adding a small amount of urea. As the nitric acid is consumed, the reaction will become less and less. I can usually tell when I have killed all the nitric acid in the auric chloride solution when there is no reaction upon addition of more urea.

The advantage of using urea; speed. There are times when I don't have time to wait for evaporation. The disadvantage; I am adding a compound that may introduce contamination to my final gold.

method two; evaporation. I place the unfiltered auric chloride on low heat and gently warm it to evaporate off most of the liquid so that my auric chloride becomes syrupy in consistency, then, I add hydrochloric acid a few ml at a time to rehydrate the syrupy liquid.

As the hydrochloric acid is added, brown fumes will be given off (if there is excess nitric acid). These brown fumes are the excess nitric acid being driven off from the auric chloride solution.

This process is repeated, evaporating down again to a syrup, then adding hydrochloric acid to drive off the excess nitric acid. When no more brown fumes are given off, then the process is complete.

If there are no brown fumes upon addition of hydrochloric acid, then congratulations. The amount of nitric added to dissolve the gold was properly meted in and there is very little if any excess nitric acid to be driven off.

Once all the nitric acid has been driven off, as indicated by no brown fumes being driven off when hydrochloric acid is added, then the solution can be rehydrate with distilled water - about three or four volumes. I usually just note the liquid level before evaporating and rehydrate to that level with distilled water after the evaporation process in complete.

The advantages of evaporation; it does seem to produce a cleaner final product and removes the nitric acid more completely than urea (in my opinion). the disadvantage; it takes much longer to do. To me, the advantage of speed is of greater value. But if your goal is ultra-pure gold, then evaporation is the way to go.

Having excess nitric acid in the auric chlorice - even a little bit - contributes greatly to allowing other, non-gold metals, dropping down with the pure gold powder when using sodium metabisulfite as your precipitant.

Also, excess nitric acid greatly increases the chance of a boil over when precipitating the gold with sodium metabisulfite. The reason for this; as the sodium metabisulfite is added to the auric chloride solution and the gold precipitates, any unused nitric acid will immediately redissolve the precipitated gold back into solution and generate lots of heat.

The bottom line is this, removing excess nitric acid is critical. You can see here how important it is not to use too much nitric acid to begin with.

More to come later - kadriver
 
Hey Guys,

I have a question, I'm still reading Hokes book and I'm still a bit away from doing my first refine but I have a couple of questions. Firstly and most importantly when doing the nitric acid treatment and then the AR treatment, the gases that are produced are deadly I know but how lonw do they stay in the atmosphere? In some of your videos Kadriver it looks like your doing the treatments in your backyard? Is this in a residential area because I'm wondering does the fumes die off? If so how long? I'm just thinking of safety of neighbours and such. Also I keep reading that there are no masks that prevent nitric acid fumes so what is everyone using?

Regards,
Aaron

Kadriver I love this post its exciting to see you make it look so simple.....I know its not but I can't wait to give it a go, still reading the book. Waiting to get to the part on how to save platinum and palladium as I use a lot of 18ct white golds and I'm assuming there will be some in my filings and there is white gold settings and rings in my old 18ct gold.
 
qfinej said:
Waiting to get to the part on how to save platinum and palladium as I use a lot of 18ct white golds and I'm assuming there will be some in my filings and there is white gold settings and rings in my old 18ct gold.
Don't expect to find platinum. Also, unless the alloy is fairly recent, it may not contain palladium, either. White gold (at least here in the US) was produced with nickel for years---and likely still is to some degree.

At any rate, if, when you process white gold, there's palladium present, it will be obvious by the resulting color of the solution. Palladium yields a dark brown color in quantity, although if it is mixed with nickel, it may have a dark green color. If the gold is alloyed with nickel alone, the resulting solution will resemble copper in solution. You can test for both nickel and palladium with DMG. The procedure can be found in Hoke's book.

Harold
 
I've seen a fair amount of 'white gold' is merely Rh plated yellow gold to make it look white.

The Rhodium tends to remian after AR treatment as silvery colored slivers or fine gray powder.

Steve
 
Most white golds used in the jewellery industry are low grade and do look yellow without the rhodium plating, but the metal I use is 18ct white, 75% gold, 5% platinum, 15% palladium and 5% master alloy. I mostly work in 18ct white gold but most of the repairs are yellow gold. I'm now thinking that this batch I'm going to send to a professional refiner as I'm not ready yet and haven't finished hokes book. Although I'm really tempted to do just the nitric acid treatment to my gold filing and solid gold bits just to see what I have.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top