Ohh..i got it.
I'll apply this onwards
Refining old silverware
- Thread starter Sunnyket
- Start date
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I'll apply this onwards
Did you read what I replied to you??
And the link I sent you?
Read it all before you continue, we do not recommend using set ratios.
Sometimes you end up using 1:10 other 1:8 and do on, no batch is similar.
I checked link.. thanks for the very useful information
I'll follow this for my next project.
And I'm surely can say I'll read hokes first before next project.
Thanku sir for all the info and your kind support
Martijn
Well-known member
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/And:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threa...imple-question-and-get-a-simple-answer.21412/
Your steps and questions indicate you need to take it slow and study a bit before you proceed. The gold will still be there to recover.
So, i were trying to dissolve base metal on some plated silverware and decided to quit mid way i ended up getting first blue, then green solution, it eventually became so dark i couldn't see the bottom, i started adding bicarbonate, ended up adding 3 whole kilos till i stopped seing bubbling now the solution is clear blue. I wasted a lot of acid and forgot to get better peroxide and try to finish the reaction, idk what to do with it, this is what i'm left with.
I'd like to cement whatever the base metal is.
The disgusting blue solution is what i ended up with, added amonia after forgot it exists.
Note I used hcl 26-28% and 3-5% hp with citric acid and some salt.
Any idea how the pcb could be "de-soldered" from the aluminium plate? I see under it there are some things going on too, i'm thinking about trying to apply some heat.
Here are some PCB goodies too for future processes.
Any idea how the pcb could be "de-soldered" from the aluminium plate? I see under it there are some things going on too, i'm thinking about trying to apply some heat?
I'd like to cement whatever the base metal is.
The disgusting blue solution is what i ended up with, added amonia after forgot it exists.
Note I used hcl 26-28% and 3-5% hp with citric acid and some salt.
Any idea how the pcb could be "de-soldered" from the aluminium plate? I see under it there are some things going on too, i'm thinking about trying to apply some heat.
Here are some PCB goodies too for future processes.
Any idea how the pcb could be "de-soldered" from the aluminium plate? I see under it there are some things going on too, i'm thinking about trying to apply some heat?
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See comments in bold in the quote.
And I can't remember if I gave you our study manual but here it is:
We ask our new members to do 3 things.
1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: Screen Readable Copy of Hoke's Book
2. Then read the safety section of the forum: Safety
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: Dealing with Waste
Suggested reading: The Library
Martijn
Well-known member
Andu, being a member since 2020, you've made some classic beginner mistakes you should have read about.
Dissolving base metals to get gold plating is questionable, doing that on silver plating is a total waste of time and acids.
Which acid did you use?
Why add bicarbonate?
Why do you think adding peroxide will get the basemetals and leave silver behind?
Dissolving base metals to get gold plating is questionable, doing that on silver plating is a total waste of time and acids.
Which acid did you use?
Why add bicarbonate?
Why do you think adding peroxide will get the basemetals and leave silver behind?
I guess i'll get on reading, I just updated my post a bit. I added the ammonia to neutralize the acid in hopes whatever dissolved will precipitate and just proceed to melt all the metal left into a ingot, there's a interesting puddle there tho.
It was clearly silver plated, some didn't react at all, will get new pictures upon i empty in containers for proper disposal and see what the metal done.
The bicarbonate was also added for that, I weren't really active on the forum I were piling stuff up.
I'm doing this as hobby and learning experience mostly. I also wanted the base metal maybe in oxide stage.
Because I already dissolved a tea spoon and left some silver behind, but I also think I might of dissolved some.
My goal is to purify all the metals I collect, whatever that metal is, unless it is already pure of course, I like making my ingots too
.
It was clearly silver plated, some didn't react at all, will get new pictures upon i empty in containers for proper disposal and see what the metal done.
The bicarbonate was also added for that, I weren't really active on the forum I were piling stuff up.
I'm doing this as hobby and learning experience mostly. I also wanted the base metal maybe in oxide stage.
Because I already dissolved a tea spoon and left some silver behind, but I also think I might of dissolved some.
My goal is to purify all the metals I collect, whatever that metal is, unless it is already pure of course, I like making my ingots too
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Martijn
Well-known member
It not a good idea to add ammonia to a solution with silver in it. Metal or salt.
You will create explosive compounds.
Stop this fooling around and don't do anything without asking us first.
You will create explosive compounds.
Stop this fooling around and don't do anything without asking us first.
Martijn
Well-known member
Added copper to your refined gold powder? Then why refine it?
Martijn
Well-known member
Anyhow, any idea of what i could use to cement whatever is inside there? I know i could use aluminium but I'd rather not just swap metal for metal, anything upper in the reactivity table? I remember reading what i need but forgot in the while.
I got a bucket of iron oxide and dissolved iron solution, would it cement the blue thing? I forgot i could do this since i initially thought i have chromium in solution (was light green for the first while and bluish) now i believe i have nickel in solution.
Edit: eh the solution is crystal clear and i got a blue sediment, i guess it was a success but i wish i had completed the reaction i had plenty of acid there, enough to eat 3kg of bicarbonate, just missed the 9% peroxide.
I got a bucket of iron oxide and dissolved iron solution, would it cement the blue thing? I forgot i could do this since i initially thought i have chromium in solution (was light green for the first while and bluish) now i believe i have nickel in solution.
Edit: eh the solution is crystal clear and i got a blue sediment, i guess it was a success but i wish i had completed the reaction i had plenty of acid there, enough to eat 3kg of bicarbonate, just missed the 9% peroxide.
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I'm not sure I'm comfortable unless I urge you to put the chemicals away and start studying again, if you ever have studied at all.
You have been a member for 3 years and have not read much yet if I understand your comment correct.
Obviously you do not understand much of this.
No oxide or other salts of metals will cement another metal, it can precipitate a metal as when Ferrous Sulfate precipitates Gold.
And there is no such "thing" as a blue thing in Chemistry.
Mixing random Chemicals on a whim like this, may injure you or worse.
Next time you plan to do something, I'll recommend that you post your plan here so we can correct errors or adjust procedures.
Comment in Bold
Martijn
Well-known member
I have used a tiny bit of 5% peroxide oxy water and a couple bottles of 3% peroxide to get a mild reaction upon heating the water of the bucket that initially contained the smaller bottle, so instead of getting better and more hydrogen peroxide i quit to soon and neutralized the solution, thing I regret as i wish i had finished it. I used 3 kg of sodium bicarbonate to neutralize about 5l of solution then tossed about 500ml of ammonia to make sure i don't leave a acidic solution behind, today, upon stirring the "grease" film (probably bicarbonate) from the top i noticed the solution is crystal clear and with a fresh smell of perfume from the ammonia. The green solution turned blue by when i were done neutralizing and a blue precipitate came, which, i think it's either nickel either chromium oxide, quite beautiful, tomorrow i'll clean it up and save it.
I trained a bit my pulse with these things for when I start dealing with my electronic scrap, which given my hobbist level is quite a bit.
I will read enough by when I start doing this and will post my plans here, i'm currently having a good overview over hook's book.
I seen a lot of sreetips but he only deals in precious metals.
Seems i had forgotten to stir, there was a lot, and i mean a lot of bicarbonate down there, there were indeed two different metals besides the silver plating, and not that much had dissolved.
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I'm still confused regarding what you did.
What is Peroxide Oxy water?
Peroxide is not an acid so why neutralize it?
Please describe in detail what you did and what was the intention of what you did, step by step.
I added about 1,2 kg of plated silverware 3x 1l bottles of 26-32% hcl and 2.5x bottles of oxygenated water, which is water, 3% hydrogen peroxide and a bit of citric acid. I did add this somewhat slow and by steps, took me like two days two add all that.
The peroxide was consumed really fast, if i keept adding i would of had all the base metal dissolved pretty fast but i didn't have any at hand.
I were close of buying some 9% HP and finish getting the base metal, filter the silver and cement the base metals but i didn't and will make a ingot off leftover with a tiny bit less of base metal. But honestly, at 9% I already start having my doubts on if silver could dissolve or not.
I basically wasted a good bunch of HCL, luckily, it is still fairly cheap.
Today I will finish cleaning up the silverware, the copper oxidation bucket attempt and the iron oxide bucket, next time i start pouring solutions it will be in where i have some actual space to get this going.
I'm very excited about my electronic scrap, i nailed one of the first CRT tv's and the boards supposedly filled with palladium hehe. I have about 20-40 kg of boards I raised from incalculable amount of devices, 3 kg of ram/IDE cards and these new batches of really thick gold plating cards, i'll try to get as many of these as possible. Pretty well for a hobbist first batch imo.
I been pondering, for a good while now, about the perfect way to extract lithium from batteries, my lithium battery stash is fairly small but annoys me.
So my idea was having a big enough container, atleast 1000l, and have the lithium perhaps even burn down there, I read lithium oxide is very water soluble, if one could manage to contain it under water while it burns would have a safe means to extract the lithium and then separate the copper from the inside and the inox/nickel from the outer cover. I'm still amazed people discharges them in water without catching on fire.
The peroxide was consumed really fast, if i keept adding i would of had all the base metal dissolved pretty fast but i didn't have any at hand.
I were close of buying some 9% HP and finish getting the base metal, filter the silver and cement the base metals but i didn't and will make a ingot off leftover with a tiny bit less of base metal. But honestly, at 9% I already start having my doubts on if silver could dissolve or not.
I basically wasted a good bunch of HCL, luckily, it is still fairly cheap.
Today I will finish cleaning up the silverware, the copper oxidation bucket attempt and the iron oxide bucket, next time i start pouring solutions it will be in where i have some actual space to get this going.
I'm very excited about my electronic scrap, i nailed one of the first CRT tv's and the boards supposedly filled with palladium hehe. I have about 20-40 kg of boards I raised from incalculable amount of devices, 3 kg of ram/IDE cards and these new batches of really thick gold plating cards, i'll try to get as many of these as possible. Pretty well for a hobbist first batch imo
.I been pondering, for a good while now, about the perfect way to extract lithium from batteries, my lithium battery stash is fairly small but annoys me.
So my idea was having a big enough container, atleast 1000l, and have the lithium perhaps even burn down there, I read lithium oxide is very water soluble, if one could manage to contain it under water while it burns would have a safe means to extract the lithium and then separate the copper from the inside and the inox/nickel from the outer cover. I'm still amazed people discharges them in water without catching on fire.
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How about studying?I added about 1,2 kg of plated silverware 3x 1l bottles of 26-32% hcl and 2.5x bottles of oxygenated water, which is water, 3% hydrogen peroxide and a bit of citric acid. I did add this somewhat slow.
The peroxide was consumed really fast, if i keept adding i would of had all the base metal dissolved pretty fast but i didn't have any at hand.
I were close of buying some 9% HP and finish getting the base metal, filter the silver and cement the base metals but i didn't and will make a ingot off leftover with a tiny bit less of base metal. But honestly, at 9% I already start having my doubts on if silver could dissolve or not.
I basically wasted a good bunch of HCL, luckily, it is still fairly cheap.
Today I will finish cleaning up the silverware, the copper oxidation bucket attempt and the iron oxide bucket, next time i start pouring solutions it will be in where i have some actual space to get this going.
I'm very excited about my electronic scrap, i nailed one of the first CRT tv's and the boards supposedly filled with palladium hehe. I have about 20-40 kg of boards I raised from incalculable amount of devices, 3 kg of ram/IDE cards and these new batches of really thick gold plating cards, i'll try to get as many of these as possible. Pretty well for a hobbist first batch imo
I been pondering, for a good while now, about the perfect way to extract lithium from batteries, my lithium battery stash is fairly small but annoys me.
So my idea was having a big enough container, atleast 1000l, and have the lithium perhaps even burn down there, I read lithium oxide is very water soluble, if one could manage to contain it under water while it burns would have a safe means to extract the lithium and then separate the copper from the inside and the inox/nickel from the outer cover. I'm still amazed people discharges them in water without catching on fire.
There is NO way you will not loose money on chemical treatment of plated Silver.
The only viable way seem to be an Electrolytic Water cell.
How did you come up with this approach?
Hydrogen Peroxide will be decomposed by the Silver and consumed.
Lithium metal along with Potassium Sodium and others will burn in/on the water.
The salts will not.
I hope you have loads of money because your project of refining all the metals,
will be expensive way beyond what they are payed for.
Please park your chemicals and study.
Then you can start small and do acquaintance tests, until you gain knowledge and experience to start properly.
Just be warned, small scale hobby refining e-waste will not earn you much if at all.
And PS!!!
PGM salts are very much more toxic than other PM salts,
so I'd leave them to someone with facilities or at least wait until you can do it properly.
I studied for past years, but only about precious metals, as said, this is small scale and only cost me a few euros, or the equivalent of three beers at the bar.
Started this because boredom mostly, I would love myself a electrolitic cell but i definetly not have the space yet for one.
I'm pretty sure I could of completed this reaction fairly fast if i had the right, and enough peroxide.
I'm definetly not touching any PGM and will leave it all in a bucket till i get more experience, I don't mind have a silver or gold ingot with all the PGM as impurity, feels also safer.
I also don't plan on selling any metal.
If i really looked after money, and got this reaction till the end, silver would get out of the equation and the oxide/reactants of the chromium/nickel would of paid off for all I spent in acids.
Thank you all for the assistance and the worries!
Started this because boredom mostly, I would love myself a electrolitic cell but i definetly not have the space yet for one.
I'm pretty sure I could of completed this reaction fairly fast if i had the right, and enough peroxide.
I'm definetly not touching any PGM and will leave it all in a bucket till i get more experience, I don't mind have a silver or gold ingot with all the PGM as impurity, feels also safer.
I also don't plan on selling any metal.
If i really looked after money, and got this reaction till the end, silver would get out of the equation and the oxide/reactants of the chromium/nickel would of paid off for all I spent in acids.
Thank you all for the assistance and the worries!
There is just pennies worth of Silver in the plating.
And as I say , using Peroxide on the Silver do not do much other than decompose the Peroxide.
HCl alone will be plenty, at least if you bubble air through it.
