shor simplicity system
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I have not personally used the system, but one of my old customers used to use one. He now uses the AR process and refuses to use the shor device. They hold you captive with their "secret" formula, according to him. This guy, in Utah, is the only customer I ever had that ended up refining his own gold. He still does. Got a phone call from him today. He still checks in for refining tips.
Harold
Harold
which method do you use? which would be the best for the good computer parts (fingers, pins, etc.) because i have a nearly endless supply of free computer stuff from my dads company. i also have access to most any chemicals i would need through one of his clients. any help would be greatly appreciated.
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My refining days revolved around mostly jewelers bench wastes. I ran very little of the electronic scrap found today. I don't feel I'm qualified to make a recommendation as a result. I never got involved with stripping with a sulfuric cell, which can be the way to go for many things. GSP has considerable experience in this arena, and Steve has posted a lot of his work. Between the two of them, they should get you up and running.
If you consider refining high grade materials (jewelry and dental scrap), or get involved with the platinum group, I'd highly recommend you get a copy of Hoke's book. It will teach the AR process and explain in detail what is required. It also guides you through testing for various metals, and instructs you on building test solutions. Very good book!
Harold
If you consider refining high grade materials (jewelry and dental scrap), or get involved with the platinum group, I'd highly recommend you get a copy of Hoke's book. It will teach the AR process and explain in detail what is required. It also guides you through testing for various metals, and instructs you on building test solutions. Very good book!
Harold
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It's difficult to reply to your question as asked. It's not clear exactly what you're asking, and your objective is also questionable. Here's my advice, with a little more information than you might want to hear, but it will help you understand why I suggest what I do.
Dental gold will usually contain platinum group metals, primarily platinum and palladium. Some are free of them, but you rarely encounter them. Impact fillings are an example.
The Pt group metals are used to toughen the gold, so they're essential to the product. These alloys usually contain at least a little silver as well, so you're in a situation where in order to effectively recover the platinum group, you have to operate a silver parting cell. Otherwise you have to deal with silver chloride on a regular basis, and even that won't accomplish the necessary separation to satisfaction. Silver readily becomes a carrier of the platinum group metals, and alters the behavior of platinum in that in the presence of silver, it will partially dissolve. Like it or not, you end up with platinum in your silver.
If you have a small amount of dental gold, my advice would be to process it front to back so you become familiar with the steps involved. Learning on large volumes can be a serious mistake in that you're likely to be somewhat clumsy with these things at the outset, perhaps breaking a container or doing something stupid that complicates recovery. It's far better to risk small amounts until you fully understand what you're doing.
Inquart your dental gold, assuming it is, at a minimum, 16K, part with nitric, then use AR to refine the gold. Recover the inquarted silver using copper bars, not wire. Save all your solutions, and test them for Pt group content. You can precipitate those traces using copper, or you can simply pour the entire lot on scrap steel, which will recover everything of value. What that does for you is to concentrate the values until you have enough to run them as a larger batch. You'll come to learn that the platinum group won't precipitate from dilute solutions well, if at all. It's actually rare to get a complete precipitation, so you find yourself recycling the solutions regularly.
Take it a step at a time, starting with small amounts. Don't toss anything until you know the values have been removed------and you won't get in trouble. Remember-------if everything goes south and you are having a lot of trouble with a process, you can always dump the lot in a plastic bucket with scrap steel and make a complete recovery. It's a wonderful way to recover things when you get in trouble, or when you have traces of values that won't respond to anything else.
Hope this helps. If you have specific questions, fire away.
Harold
Dental gold will usually contain platinum group metals, primarily platinum and palladium. Some are free of them, but you rarely encounter them. Impact fillings are an example.
The Pt group metals are used to toughen the gold, so they're essential to the product. These alloys usually contain at least a little silver as well, so you're in a situation where in order to effectively recover the platinum group, you have to operate a silver parting cell. Otherwise you have to deal with silver chloride on a regular basis, and even that won't accomplish the necessary separation to satisfaction. Silver readily becomes a carrier of the platinum group metals, and alters the behavior of platinum in that in the presence of silver, it will partially dissolve. Like it or not, you end up with platinum in your silver.
If you have a small amount of dental gold, my advice would be to process it front to back so you become familiar with the steps involved. Learning on large volumes can be a serious mistake in that you're likely to be somewhat clumsy with these things at the outset, perhaps breaking a container or doing something stupid that complicates recovery. It's far better to risk small amounts until you fully understand what you're doing.
Inquart your dental gold, assuming it is, at a minimum, 16K, part with nitric, then use AR to refine the gold. Recover the inquarted silver using copper bars, not wire. Save all your solutions, and test them for Pt group content. You can precipitate those traces using copper, or you can simply pour the entire lot on scrap steel, which will recover everything of value. What that does for you is to concentrate the values until you have enough to run them as a larger batch. You'll come to learn that the platinum group won't precipitate from dilute solutions well, if at all. It's actually rare to get a complete precipitation, so you find yourself recycling the solutions regularly.
Take it a step at a time, starting with small amounts. Don't toss anything until you know the values have been removed------and you won't get in trouble. Remember-------if everything goes south and you are having a lot of trouble with a process, you can always dump the lot in a plastic bucket with scrap steel and make a complete recovery. It's a wonderful way to recover things when you get in trouble, or when you have traces of values that won't respond to anything else.
Hope this helps. If you have specific questions, fire away.
Harold
You can pretty much tell what the Shor secret ingredients are by reading Peter Shor's patents. I think he has 6 of them. You have to study them. Then compare them with the descriptions of his processes and equipment on his website. His website is quite good with tons of information but, you have to thoroughly search for it. I have only skimmed the patents. He seems to like ammonium chloride. It shows up often in the patents.
Here's the patent numbers. There are 5. The other was another Peter Shor. He may have more under another name. To read them, go to Google/more/patents and type in the number.
5997719
5269912
4895626
4612093
5009755
http://shorinternational.com/
Here's the patent numbers. There are 5. The other was another Peter Shor. He may have more under another name. To read them, go to Google/more/patents and type in the number.
5997719
5269912
4895626
4612093
5009755
http://shorinternational.com/
Dont waste your money-
In order for the unit to recover the gold as claimed you have to be very precise and go above and beyond-
Shors unit is nothing more than a cell descibed in Hokes book-
Grainsofgold
In order for the unit to recover the gold as claimed you have to be very precise and go above and beyond-
Shors unit is nothing more than a cell descibed in Hokes book-
Grainsofgold
Hello
Has anyone actually used this system?
Does it really work?
I am a small miner,I own the gold and
it is free milling and pretty pure.
The chemical cost or time involved is
not that big of a deal for me.
As for being precise and going beyond
that is just part of doing a good job.
I am not looking for something to process
ore. My main concern is will it refine clean
fines,small nuggets,and larger chunks
that won't make specimen,or jewelery
nuggets. Also if it will refine to 999.5 as
claimed.
Has anyone actually used this system?
Does it really work?
I am a small miner,I own the gold and
it is free milling and pretty pure.
The chemical cost or time involved is
not that big of a deal for me.
As for being precise and going beyond
that is just part of doing a good job.
I am not looking for something to process
ore. My main concern is will it refine clean
fines,small nuggets,and larger chunks
that won't make specimen,or jewelery
nuggets. Also if it will refine to 999.5 as
claimed.
ghut
Member
Yes the Shor system works. I use it primarily to refine srap jewelry with diamonds and other stones, which serves our purpose. Is it perfect? IHO - no. For example, the system never refines all the gold which accumulates in the bottom of the anode bag. Most of this has become oxidized, has to be pickeled, cleaned, remelted and refined again. If refining mainly 10kt or 18kt scrap you have to fight the oxidation that comes from the higher silver content, and normally have to refine theses lots twice to get the desired results.
If you purchace the system, just be prepared to be treated like a complete idiot when you call with questions. If you can get past that, you can get the answers you need to get your desired results.
The finished ingots we've had assayed have come in at 99.94% to 99.95%.
I have no idea how it will work with other than karated gold. I'm sure Peter can and will tell you.
If you purchace the system, just be prepared to be treated like a complete idiot when you call with questions. If you can get past that, you can get the answers you need to get your desired results.
The finished ingots we've had assayed have come in at 99.94% to 99.95%.
I have no idea how it will work with other than karated gold. I'm sure Peter can and will tell you.
ghut
Thank you for your opinion. That is the kind
of information I was looking for.
I talked to Peter a while back. I explained
what I wanted to do. He said it would process
good placer gold better than scrap type. He
thought it would really do the job. Of course
he sells them,and I have heard sales pitches
before. That is why I want to hear from real
people that have actually used one.
Thank you for your opinion. That is the kind
of information I was looking for.
I talked to Peter a while back. I explained
what I wanted to do. He said it would process
good placer gold better than scrap type. He
thought it would really do the job. Of course
he sells them,and I have heard sales pitches
before. That is why I want to hear from real
people that have actually used one.
I purchased one of the Shor units.
I am EXTREMELY upset, both at the quality of service, and the cost to get warranty parts replaced.
I have e-mailed them, called them. It seems once they make the sale, too bad Charlie.
I spoke to them at length prior to the sale. They reassured me of all the points I had made as the machine being what I needed.
I began building a room for the unit, and my high temperature casting. I also ordered the unit. The unit arrived, and the room took 18 months to complete.
Upon opening the box, the cell was broken and had crystals all over the break. The catylist was liquid.
I have since called them, and essentially, to replace a broken delivered part under warranty, I have to pay.
I can understand, if I order fruit and let it sit in the sun for 18 months, I am being unreasonable to recquest a replacement.
But an unused CERAMIC cylinder from an unopened box. Well, c'mon.
I was not informed on the shelf life of the salts, and I did specifically describe my time table. I have a large amount of 14K20GF. I specifically asked about this. My pieces are about 2-4mm in length. They told me the unit works well with gold filled.
After recieveing the unit I called on the gold filled. I was informed I had to solder EACH piece onto .051 .999 silver wire!
I now own a 599$ plastic tub.
At least, in my classes, I can show all the potential repair jewelers the correspondence.
I am so sorry I got this unit. Only 110.99$ and I can get what I originally purchased.
I joined this forum in hopes I can find a way that actually works.
I feel really bad about this. When one of my customers comes to my shop, even if it has been years after I made the repair, I repair it.
I do not want to make this sound like a personal bashing, but indeed Caveat Emptor.
I am EXTREMELY upset, both at the quality of service, and the cost to get warranty parts replaced.
I have e-mailed them, called them. It seems once they make the sale, too bad Charlie.
I spoke to them at length prior to the sale. They reassured me of all the points I had made as the machine being what I needed.
I began building a room for the unit, and my high temperature casting. I also ordered the unit. The unit arrived, and the room took 18 months to complete.
Upon opening the box, the cell was broken and had crystals all over the break. The catylist was liquid.
I have since called them, and essentially, to replace a broken delivered part under warranty, I have to pay.
I can understand, if I order fruit and let it sit in the sun for 18 months, I am being unreasonable to recquest a replacement.
But an unused CERAMIC cylinder from an unopened box. Well, c'mon.
I was not informed on the shelf life of the salts, and I did specifically describe my time table. I have a large amount of 14K20GF. I specifically asked about this. My pieces are about 2-4mm in length. They told me the unit works well with gold filled.
After recieveing the unit I called on the gold filled. I was informed I had to solder EACH piece onto .051 .999 silver wire!
I now own a 599$ plastic tub.
At least, in my classes, I can show all the potential repair jewelers the correspondence.
I am so sorry I got this unit. Only 110.99$ and I can get what I originally purchased.
I joined this forum in hopes I can find a way that actually works.
I feel really bad about this. When one of my customers comes to my shop, even if it has been years after I made the repair, I repair it.
I do not want to make this sound like a personal bashing, but indeed Caveat Emptor.
Irons
Well-known member
"When one of my customers comes to my shop, even if it has been years after I made the repair, I repair it.
I do not want to make this sound like a personal bashing, but indeed Caveat Emptor."
For someone in the Jewelry trade who is used to a service oriented business, dealing with people like Shor can be very frustrating.
Everyone knows that the trade has a markup but customers keep going back because of the service. This is why Shor is putting themselves in a bad position. They are dealing with people who are giving good service, for the most part and are expecting good service in return.
I do not want to make this sound like a personal bashing, but indeed Caveat Emptor."
For someone in the Jewelry trade who is used to a service oriented business, dealing with people like Shor can be very frustrating.
Everyone knows that the trade has a markup but customers keep going back because of the service. This is why Shor is putting themselves in a bad position. They are dealing with people who are giving good service, for the most part and are expecting good service in return.
Hey, thanks for the reply.
I am shocked at the customer response from Ishor. Shocked. I gotta sleep at night.
I became a jeweler as a result of being ripped off by a jeweler I thought I knew and semi trusted. From that point I taught myself silversmithing, goldsmithing, stone setting, repair, casting, even making Mokume'Gane.
My main question is, now what do I do with a VERY expensive hunk of polypropylene?
I called Ishor when I made my descision to get their unit, and I was very specific as to my needs, time frame, and use.
I called them today and they spoke to me like I was a nitwit.
My shop is based on the concept, there is no pillow like a clear conscience, and hearses do not carry luggage racks.
I do not mind struggling harder than the other jewelers. We do not purchase gold from people down on their luck, we do not swap stones, we do not overcharge.
I had a customer recently who had a ring I fixed five years ago. He ran over his ring and my repair cracked. I fixed it for him and he was suprised when I did not charge him for the quick fix. Merely remelt the solder joint and make shiney. I gotta sleep at night.
This is not the first time I have been taken. Live and learn. I still have to refine my gold and I am going to learn how to do it. I have 200lbs of Gold by the Inch. It won't fit into the cell! Even little pieces!
I am thinking reverse plating, if I can figuire that one out.
All this because I want to offer my customers fresh karating in their castings. I could use Re-Cast, but I want to deliver better than that, even if they will never know better. I will.
Thanks for being there for me to vent.
I am shocked at the customer response from Ishor. Shocked. I gotta sleep at night.
I became a jeweler as a result of being ripped off by a jeweler I thought I knew and semi trusted. From that point I taught myself silversmithing, goldsmithing, stone setting, repair, casting, even making Mokume'Gane.
My main question is, now what do I do with a VERY expensive hunk of polypropylene?
I called Ishor when I made my descision to get their unit, and I was very specific as to my needs, time frame, and use.
I called them today and they spoke to me like I was a nitwit.
My shop is based on the concept, there is no pillow like a clear conscience, and hearses do not carry luggage racks.
I do not mind struggling harder than the other jewelers. We do not purchase gold from people down on their luck, we do not swap stones, we do not overcharge.
I had a customer recently who had a ring I fixed five years ago. He ran over his ring and my repair cracked. I fixed it for him and he was suprised when I did not charge him for the quick fix. Merely remelt the solder joint and make shiney. I gotta sleep at night.
This is not the first time I have been taken. Live and learn. I still have to refine my gold and I am going to learn how to do it. I have 200lbs of Gold by the Inch. It won't fit into the cell! Even little pieces!
I am thinking reverse plating, if I can figuire that one out.
All this because I want to offer my customers fresh karating in their castings. I could use Re-Cast, but I want to deliver better than that, even if they will never know better. I will.
Thanks for being there for me to vent.
First off, I am sorry about your time with Shor. There seems to be a lot of negative experiences with this company. Their cell is nothing that marvelous in my opinion, and there are people here who have built their own, similar units.
On this forum you will find a wealth of information, both on the practical side and, if you are so inclined, on the chemical level. I think it is important to know both how to do it and why to do it a certain way because it will ultimately make you more creative and adaptive should a problem arise.
I am willing to help you with any questions you may have with gold, silver, and platinum refining and offer what I think is the best way to go. There are many, highly experienced people here that will help you out. Feel free to start a thread in an appropriate topic section, or if you prefer, in an existing thread that is in a similar vein as to your situation.
That said, welcome and stay awhile! If you like to learn you'll like being here at the goldrefiningforum!
Lou
On this forum you will find a wealth of information, both on the practical side and, if you are so inclined, on the chemical level. I think it is important to know both how to do it and why to do it a certain way because it will ultimately make you more creative and adaptive should a problem arise.
I am willing to help you with any questions you may have with gold, silver, and platinum refining and offer what I think is the best way to go. There are many, highly experienced people here that will help you out. Feel free to start a thread in an appropriate topic section, or if you prefer, in an existing thread that is in a similar vein as to your situation.
That said, welcome and stay awhile! If you like to learn you'll like being here at the goldrefiningforum!
Lou
You know, I just signed up here and I feel welcome!
Thanks guys. I was beginning to feel like refineing is a guild secret. I do not have the background to devine its ways.
I feel categorically betrayed by that company. At the time, my wife's mother had just died, UPS that day dropped the package at out door, and the contractors had just built the room backwards. The absolute last thing I suspected was the cell in the package had a chipped corner! When I first called them, they told me to use silicone seal to patch the hole. I said WHAT? The plastic bags holding miniscule amounts of anything all had small holes in them and powder was all over the inside of the box. The shipping box was in perfect condition so I really had no reason to suspect shipping damage.
I do not care the cost, I will shut down my business before I do anything like that.
I do have a quantity of plated, gold filled, and scraps I will need to recover. Any leads will be appreciated. I do not even know where to look.
Thanks guys. I was beginning to feel like refineing is a guild secret. I do not have the background to devine its ways.
I feel categorically betrayed by that company. At the time, my wife's mother had just died, UPS that day dropped the package at out door, and the contractors had just built the room backwards. The absolute last thing I suspected was the cell in the package had a chipped corner! When I first called them, they told me to use silicone seal to patch the hole. I said WHAT? The plastic bags holding miniscule amounts of anything all had small holes in them and powder was all over the inside of the box. The shipping box was in perfect condition so I really had no reason to suspect shipping damage.
I do not care the cost, I will shut down my business before I do anything like that.
I do have a quantity of plated, gold filled, and scraps I will need to recover. Any leads will be appreciated. I do not even know where to look.
Rag and Bone
Well-known member
Get Hoke's book. There might be a download of it on the Forum if you look around.
From what I have been reading, Hoke's book is a great place to start.
Since I will not be refineing for a while I suppose, reading it from cover to cover might kill the time.
The cost will certainly be less than throwing more money on that piece of snake oil I got.
Thanks.
Since I will not be refineing for a while I suppose, reading it from cover to cover might kill the time.
The cost will certainly be less than throwing more money on that piece of snake oil I got.
Thanks.
