Silver cell confusion

[dcurzon]

I'm wanting to set up a small silver cell, for processing up to around 150gms. I'm finding a lot of information but trying to make sense of it all is another matter.

I'll start with what i am understanding...
Anode made from silver (previously cemented by copper) in a bag to capture slimes
Cathode made from (?)
Electrolyte - 60gm/l silver 40gm/l copper (Hokes, page 275) so, if my cell could hold 330ml's of electrolyte, then i would dissolve 20gm of silver and 13gm copper into nitric.
3vDC passed through (i'll improvise with an old PC PSU or maybe a USB cable, failing this, just ordinary batteries)

In one of Lasersteves cell video's, he is using a copper mesh as a bag and anode combined. In a silver cell, would this just cement out the silver from the nitrate? The copper mesh is a great idea for ensuring electrical contact.

For the Cathode, is there any metals to avoid using for this?

Could i make use of the copper nitrate that im left with from silver cementing, as part of the electrolyte?

Many thanks
)

 

[old thompson]

I'm still learning, but the way I understand what I have read is that the greater the part of your electrolyte that is copper, the less pure your silver will be. Please correct me if I misunderstood.

What I don't understand and would like know is, how does the silver move through the electolyte? Is the anode constantly being dissolved by free nitric, or is the silver just kind of flowing along with the electrons?

I hope my question is clear. It probably doesn't matter much what is happening in the greater scheme of things.

Also, what is the proper material for an anode bag in a silver cell?

 

[Lonnie]

dcurzon

I'm to new to this to be much help to you plus I wouldn't want to step on any toes here either giving away certain information . I did buy the DVD from Steve concerning the cell and it has the details your looking for in it . Very easy to understand and loaded with lots of other information the new guy will find usefull . You can go to Lazer Steves online store and purchase it if interested .

I will say that I have also read where some will add copper to help conductitivy ( i think ) but most tend to wish to avoid to much build up of copper or any contaminant for that matter . I haven't got far enough along to actually use the silver cell as of date . Still cementing silver while I'm building a small kiln . It's going together very nicley but I'm having burner problems .

Trying to make a home made burner and having trouble getting it to burn correctly . If I could get that figured out I'd be ready for part two melting the stuff . I could melt with a torch but would rather avoid the fumes of a lot of this stuff so a kiln where I can walk away from it and not breath them seems best for me .

Best of luck figuring it out . Go check out Steves store he also has free links and videos you can watch if your connection will let you . You might brouse his store and check out his links and be able to figure things out .

 

[metatp]

I'll start with what i am understanding...
Anode made from silver (previously cemented by copper) in a bag to capture slimes
Cathode made from (?)
Electrolyte - 60gm/l silver 40gm/l copper (Hokes, page 275) so, if my cell could hold 330ml's of electrolyte, then i would dissolve 20gm of silver and 13gm copper into nitric.
3vDC passed through (i'll improvise with an old PC PSU or maybe a USB cable, failing this, just ordinary batteries)

In one of Lasersteves cell video's, he is using a copper mesh as a bag and anode combined. In a silver cell, would this just cement out the silver from the nitrate? The copper mesh is a great idea for ensuring electrical contact.

For the Cathode, is there any metals to avoid using for this?

Could i make use of the copper nitrate that im left with from silver cementing, as part of the electrolyte?

Many thanks
)

Hi dcurzon,
I use stainless steal as my cathode, but have also used the graphite cathode that Lazersteve sells. it works well and come connected to the wire. I would also use as little copper as possible if you want to process more. I usually change my electrolyte before the concentration of copper gets to 40g/liter. I used to use my cemented silver for my electrolyte, but seem to get better results with pure silver (about 100g/liter). Lazersteves video is great and I highly recommend it.

Make sure your distance from you anode to your cathode is about 4 inches. I actually get better results with 3 inches, but need to watch it more closely so the crystals don't touch the anode.

I have also experimented with batteries while I was waiting for a power supply. I noticed that the batteries worked, but they were drained in a couple of days. I don't recommend batteries.

I believe the copper mesh is not for nitric acid silver cells. The copper would cement the silver in solution.

Regards,
Tom

 

[dcurzon]

thanks all, lasersteve's dvd is on my 'want' list, i'm just waiting to sell some junk on ebay to build up my paypal reserves, as shipping to the uk will bump up prices a bit.

I wonder if a silver plated spoon would work for the cathode... saw plenty of them at a boot sale (our equivalent of a yard sale) at the weekend.

 

[Harold_V]

thanks all, lasersteve's dvd is on my 'want' list, i'm just waiting to sell some junk on ebay to build up my paypal reserves, as shipping to the uk will bump up prices a bit.

I wonder if a silver plated spoon would work for the cathode... saw plenty of them at a boot sale (our equivalent of a yard sale) at the weekend.

I'd suggest you avoid a plated item of any description. Base metal will cement silver, which isn't desirable.

Nothing wrong with using a spoon if that be your choice---just insure it's stainless. Non-magnetic is the best choice. However, a flat strip of stainless will be far easier to clean. Consider making a cell from a steam table container----the entire container is 300 series stainless and becomes the cathode.

Harold

 

[dcurzon]

thanks Harold. I had to Google to see what a steam table is, and after finding pictures, i believe it is what we call a Bain Marie. Should be able to find one of those without too much trouble. Drill a hole through near the top edge, plastic rod through the hole, anode+bag suspended from this to isolate from the cathode...

I'll probably order the graphite cathode from steves site when i order the dvd, get it all in one package for the shipping.

 

[Lonnie]

Harold

I have an old coffee maker thats good stainless I planned to use for bulk processing of silver crystals . However I also read about your friend that use to grow the very large crystals . Now thats something I'm very interested in and would love to figure out . If I remember correctly you mentioned his cathode was nothing but a point so I'm thinking two silver cells would be in order .

If a person could learn to grow them like your friend I'm guessing these mineral collectors would go crazy for them . I may never get them to grow very big but sure plan to attempt doing just that .

Am i correct with remembering his cathode was nothing but a small point ??

.

 

[dcurzon]

Hi Lonnie
I read the exact post you're refferring to just within the last couple of days, i cant remember the thread title, but Harold definitely said the Cathode was no more than a small point.

EDIT: heres the thread:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1765&hilit=crystals

 

[Harold_V]

Am i correct with remembering his cathode was nothing but a small point ??

That's correct, to the best of my recollection. Unfortunately, this kind old man died in 1984, so it has been a long time since I had the discussion with him about his process. What I recall is he had built a small chamber of plexiglass in which he had a point that protruded in to the chamber. That was where he grew his crystals. I don't know the voltage he used, or any of the fine details, and I don't even know if he had guidance, or just happened to hit on the right combination. The only thing I do know is he had great success, and could grow crystals that weighed a few ounces.

Harold

 

[Harold_V]

I'll probably order the graphite cathode from steves site when i order the dvd, get it all in one package for the shipping.

The cathode is the entire container. Introducing one of graphite isn't necessary.

It's important that the (round) vessel from a steam table (they are used in restaurants to keep the food hot) be large enough to keep the anode at least three inches from the sides. In this case, it may be desirable to make a round anode, although it will suffer from (drastic) loss of area as it erodes.

In any case, using a 300 series stainless for your container is a good choice--it is inert in the presence of nitric acid, and does not cement silver. If you choose a different material (glass--fiber glass, plastic) for your container, then, yes, you'd need the graphite.

Harold