Non-Chemical Silver Cell details

[Frankk12]

Thanks Harold
Here is another try

 

[Frankk12]

The picture is the same size as Jim posted
I made it even smaller

 

[Refiner232121]

Hi Jim
Thanks for hose pictures
There are 3 main parts
1 is the red part
2nd is the blue
the 3rd is the one in the corner
Can you name them and how powerful they are

 

[Junkman Jim]

All,
The hardest part of this power supply is finding the two transformers. The first is a variable transformer or Variac, I looked on ebay and they are available there. You'll need 2.25 amps or more. The second one will be difficult if not impossible to find so I built my own.
I started with a transformer with a primary (input) of around 240 watts or about 2 amps. The ratings on the secondaries don't really matter. The primary is almost always the closest winding to the center of the core. Very carefully remove all of the secondaries from the core. Now the fun begins, we must find how many turns it takes to get our required voltage. Wind several wraps of wire around the primary, plug the transformer in, and measure the voltage across the secondary. We are looking for just over 3.5 volts AC on each side of the center tap or 3.5 volts AC on two identical windings (for a bridge rectifier) which will increase to about 5 volts DC when rectified and filtered. Now we know how much wire we need. I used insulated stranded AWG 8, it's alot easier to wind than solid AWG 8. AWG 8 is capable of about 25 amps in a transformer. Once you get the secondary wound be sure that the voltage on each side of the center tap or both windings is the same.
Junkman Jim

A note for Refiner232121:
The red part is the homemade transformer explained above.
The blue part is the filter capacitor, 30,000 uf at 10 volts.
The part in the corner is the Variac, 120 volts at 2.25 amps.

 

[Refiner232121]

Hi Jim
Thanks very much for your help
What you have in the box seems very simple but it requires skilled electrician to get the job done
I will buy a rectifier that is being sold by a jewelery tool suppliers.

 

[golddie]

SILVER CELL PICTURE: http://www.search-nj.com/Pics/Silver_Cell.jpg

This is a picture someone posted in another thread
I am wondering if a powers supply like this one can be used for this project

 

[goldsilverpro]

That's a different deal, golddie. It looks like a tarnish remover to me. Although they call it a silver cell, it bears no resemblance to the ones covered on the forum.

 

[Anonymous]

All,
The hardest part of this power supply is finding the two transformers. The first is a variable transformer or Variac, I looked on ebay and they are available there. You'll need 2.25 amps or more. The second one will be difficult if not impossible to find so I built my own.
I started with a transformer with a primary (input) of around 240 watts or about 2 amps. The ratings on the secondaries don't really matter. The primary is almost always the closest winding to the center of the core. Very carefully remove all of the secondaries from the core. Now the fun begins, we must find how many turns it takes to get our required voltage. Wind several wraps of wire around the primary, plug the transformer in, and measure the voltage across the secondary. We are looking for just over 3.5 volts AC on each side of the center tap or 3.5 volts AC on two identical windings (for a bridge rectifier) which will increase to about 5 volts DC when rectified and filtered. Now we know how much wire we need. I used insulated stranded AWG 8, it's alot easier to wind than solid AWG 8. AWG 8 is capable of about 25 amps in a transformer. Once you get the secondary wound be sure that the voltage on each side of the center tap or both windings is the same.
Junkman Jim

Hi Jim you did some nice work on your cell and power rectifier. I also like the look of the end product (silver) congratulations..
Jim I have a question for you. I own this variable12-15 volt 16 amp rectifier, as you can see it is not this years model lol. This rectifier as you can see on the front panel has different taps for input voltage. Do you know what will happen if i wire it on the 240v taps and plug it into a 120v socket ? Will I BURN THE COIL ?
How much will my output voltage drop? What will be the max. output amperage?

Thank you for your help
Azrael

 

[Junkman Jim]

Azrael,
First of all use caution, the rectifier is selenium which is poison when over heated. Don't overload this power supply.
If you set the taps for 240 volts and input 120 volts you will get 6 volts at 16 amps at the output.
It looks to me like the transformer is mechanically variable as opposed to an electrically variable one. This type transformer does not have much variation, in this case the variation is only about 3 volts and if you configure it as above it will only have a variation of about 1.5 volts. If you insert a Variac (electrically variable transformer) before the input transformer this supply would output 0 to 6 volts but only at 16 amps.
Hope this helps,
Junkman Jim

 

[PreciousMexpert]

azraelriz
You must have asked around to see if that thing had a collectible value or not.
What did they say

 

[Anonymous]

Azrael,
First of all use caution, the rectifier is selenium which is poison when over heated. Don't overload this power supply.
If you set the taps for 240 volts and input 120 volts you will get 6 volts at 16 amps at the output.
It looks to me like the transformer is mechanically variable as opposed to an electrically variable one. This type transformer does not have much variation, in this case the variation is only about 3 volts and if you configure it as above it will only have a variation of about 1.5 volts. If you insert a Variac (electrically variable transformer) before the input transformer this supply would output 0 to 6 volts but only at 16 amps.
Hope this helps,
Junkman Jim

Hi Jim thank you for the information, all your observations on this unit are exact. Yes this is something people must know on this newsgroup, when welding, grinding or heating with a torch any metal contaminated with selenium the fumes are poison. Work safely!

Regards
Azrael

 

[Anonymous]

azraelriz
You must have asked around to see if that thing had a collectible value or not.
What did they say

This charger belonged to my father, and my mother who is emptying the basement wants to get rid of it.
I have looked around and haven't found any info on its collectible value.
This maybe the last of its kind. It still works I tried it yesterday.
I will try to find it a home.

 

[butcher]

I like your power supply, thats a nice diode rectifier, what year? I have an old tungar diode tube(they look like large light bulbs), battery charger 1910.

 

[Anonymous]

I like your power supply, thats a nice diode rectifier, what year? I have an old tungar diode tube(they look like large light bulbs), battery charger 1910.

I do not know. I would say about 195?

 

[aflacglobal]

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=5195

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=3940

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=732

 

[butcher]

That cat's always busy digging up good stuff.

 

[aflacglobal]

You would not believe the reading i do. It's cold and all i have to do right now is read, clean scrap, and read. When i run across something good i bump the thread.

 

[Refiner232121]

I have already made a cell like jims and hopefully I will start refining with this cell.

I used to do Rhodium plating with this machine
It was a while ago and I even forgot how I did the Rhodium plating
The machine is
VIGOR ELECTRO-PLATER
PM 260 A
It looks similar to these rectifiers
http://www.shorinternational.com/Rectifiers.htm

There is only one knob for adjusting the volts and an on and off swith
I am able to adjust the volts from 0-12 I see that the max volts is higher but the knob cant make it go higher.

The problem is the Amperes.
It is at zero and it is not adjustable.

Why cant i adjust the Amperes.
Can I do electro refining with this machine.
Is there a way to adjust the Amperes or should I leave it at zero
Thanks

 

[goldsilverpro]

The problem is the Amperes.
It is at zero and it is not adjustable.

Why cant i adjust the Amperes.
Can I do electro refining with this machine.
Is there a way to adjust the Amperes or should I leave it at zero

http://www.shorinternational.com/Rectifiers.htm

In my estimation, this is the best type of power supply you could use, for plating or electro-refining. Not necessarily the brand, but the type. How many amps is yours?

Many common plating rectifiers only go to 12V, even though the meter scale goes higher. Note in the Shor link, the first only goes to 10V and the other two to 12V. 12V is plenty for about anything I can think of. The silver cell operates between 3V and 4V.

No current will flow unless you have a load. To test it, turn the rectifier on and then turn the knob completely down to zero - the voltage should read zero. Clip the two leads together and BARELY turn up the knob - just a hair. Watch the ammeter while doing this. You should see the amps increase as you turn up the knob. Whatever you do, don't turn it up so much the ammeter pegs. If there is any current flow noted on the ammeter, it's working fine. Turn the knob back to zero and unclip the leads.

If there was NO current flow noted by the test above, there is most likely a fuse burnt out. This is very common. In all three photos, I think I see fuse holder at the lower front left of each rectifier. When the leads or electrodes are inadvertently shorted together, the fuse blows to protect the ammeter. Replace the fuse, turn the knob to zero, clip the leads together, turn up the knob a tiny amount, and see if you get current flow. If you don't get any current flow here, the rectifier has more serious problems. Sometimes, this will be a blown ammeter. Also, on some rectifiers, there is a second fuse, usually on the back - check for it. All in all, though, just replacing a blown ammeter fuse (on the front panel) will fix it about 99% of the time.

 

[Refiner232121]

Hi Chris
Thanks for your help
10 amps
20 volts
But i think the meter does not go all the way for the volts

I bought this power supply second hand but it was hardly used
Also I did Rhodium plating but not that much
So it is in good shape.

I accidently had the 2 clips touching each other and the knob way turned on all the way
and I pluged it in like that because I was not aware of it
There was a buzzing sound but that was about it

I tried what you said

Clip the two leads together and BARELY turn up the knob - just a hair. Watch the ammeter while doing this. You should see the amps increase as you turn up the knob. Whatever you do, don't turn it up so much the ammeter pegs. If there is any current flow noted on the ammeter, it's working fine. Turn the knob back to zero and unclip the leads.

when I clipped the 2 leads this is what happend
- When I turned the centre knob the amp meter moved but the volt meter just stayed put.

I clip one end to a stanless stell ruler
the other end to a pair of pliers
This is what happend
-the meter for the volt moved and not the amps

If I test this wthout anything on the clips this is what happens
-I am able to adjust the volts from 0-12
but not the amps

My question is this ¸
How can i get the
1.25 volts measured at the cathode and anode
2.5 amp
Like jims cell
Thanks