SOLVED Not Sure If Charger Is Properly Set - Not Seeing Foam

[Anonymous]

Hello members,

I started my first sulfuric cell today (about 36F outside) and I believe I setup everything correctly, but after I started the cell for the first time, I saw the foaming begin, then all of a sudden, I'm not seeing any reaction in the cell. I can see that the color is changing black though.

I started with a small test of gold plated material (about 5 - 10 grams I think) and it seems to be slowly stripping, but I'm not seeing any foaming action. I'm not sure if I have my charger set correctly or not. Below are some photos of my setup and the charger. Any help appreciated.










Also, is it possible the cold weather is effecting the process? It doesn't feel really cold, but it's below 40F right now. Also, I used a glass rod to make sure the plated material were contacting the copper basket.

I noticed that after I wiped off the glass rod, it had black on it. I guess that's some gold? If so, I'll save it for later incineration.

One more thing. I thought my basket was deep enough, but I noticed after I filled the cell with the acid and placed the basket in, a portion of it is sticking out. Is that effecting the process?

Thanks for all the help.

Kevin

 

[Anonymous]

I think I know what the problem was.. after pulling out the basket and looking at the material carefully, it was completely stripped.

My Bad!

My next batch, I'm going to do 100 grams of pins and see how that goes, a
s far as the reaction. I have to take my step son to therapy and I should be back in about 2 hours.. to continue.

I'll post results. But from what I've learned, I can see it coming along. The solution is not completely black, but it's getting there. I have pounds of pins to do. i'll post my yields when it's all said and done.

Still, I would like to know the correct settings for the charger I should be using.

Kevin

 

[Anonymous]

I just got finished for the night because it's getting dark and colder outside. I added more gold plated pins and the gold was stripping off each batch in about 10 minutes time. I did a total of 201 grams today. I have much more to do by tomorrow.

I do have a few questions and I don't recall seeing the answers to them. If they're here on the forum, I'm sorry for asking again and you can point me to it.

Q1. Can any gold be recovered from the rinse solution? My rinse solution is tap water and baking soda. I let my solution drip back into the cell, but I also notice that some specks of black are being deposited into the rinse pail.

Q2. Is there a way to rinse the solution back into the cell with more sulfuric to wash the black away before rinsing?

Q3. What is the ideal temp to have the gold settle to the bottom?

Q4. Does it actually take approximately 24 hours for the gold to settle or is there a way to speed up the process?

This has been very interesting and easy to do so far. I'm still following threads, reading and studying as I go along. I remember when I first refined keyboard mylars and it was a learning experience for me. Now I'm going to be refining gold from pins and other material(s). I like the sulfuric cell because it's pretty much straight forward and if you do it correctly, you'll see the process in action.

To answer the question about if my charger is set correctly, it must be because it's definitely stripping the materials. The solution is now black, but not thick and black yet. Hopefully by tomorrow or no later than Saturday I'll be done with what I have prepared so far.

Thanks again for all of the support and knowledge here.

Kevin

 

[cnbarr]

Hey tester,
normally what I do once I feel my cell has reached it's point of saturation is decent the sulfuric and all the powders into an appropriate sized beaker to settle out for about 36hrs. Then refill my cell with fresh electrolyte to keep going while the first batch is settling.

After the first round has settled I decant of about 85% of the sulfuric, filtering it through a fiberglass plug to catch any fines, then dilute the remaining 10-15% holding the powders with 10 times the volume of water. Let it settle out out then decant again through your first fiberglass plug.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey tester,
normally what I do once I feel my cell has reached it's point of saturation is decent the sulfuric and all the powders into an appropriate sized beaker to settle out for about 36hrs. Then refill my cell with fresh electrolyte to keep going while the first batch is settling.

After the first round has settled I decant of about 85% of the sulfuric, filtering it through a fiberglass plug to catch any fines, then dilute the remaining 10-15% holding the powders with 10 times the volume of water. Let it settle out out then decant again through your first fiberglass plug.

Thanks for the info. I do remember reading about the fiberglass filter about 2 days ago. I have to go back and remember the exact thread though. I am not sure if I got the fiberglass filtration down packed, but I'll reread the thread to get a better understanding.

I like the idea of decanting the solution, then pour in more solution while the other is settling, so the work can continue. I never thought of that one. Nice. From what I purchased, I think I bought 650 ml x 2 bottles of sulfuric, and I used almost all of the first bottle. There's some left, but not much. I'll check the exact quantity bottles I purchased later on tonight.

Like I said before, everything is working out great, and it's going to be warmer tomorrow (41F), so I'm going to start early in the morning and do as much as I can until I either run out of the pins I prepared so far or the solution doesn't react anymore.

Thanks for the reply cnbarr.

I believe I'm hooked. This has been an experience I'll never forget.

Kevin

 

[cnbarr]

I don't know if you have the link, but this is a great thread on recovering powders from the cell!
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=7093

 

[Anonymous]

I don't know if you have the link, but this is a great thread on recovering powders from the cell!
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=7093

Oh yeah, I have that link. That's the link that gave me more understanding of what I'm doing with the sulfuric cell.


Kevin

 

[steyr223]

I would be interested in how many pins
You are doing at once.
It seemed to me that when I did to many
It completely stooped working (no bubbles)
almost like the amps drawn were to much

Thanks Steyr223 rob

 

[Anonymous]

I would be interested in how many pins
You are doing at once.
It seemed to me that when I did to many
It completely stooped working (no bubbles)
almost like the amps drawn were to much

Thanks Steyr223 rob

Everything is working fine on my end. The problem was that the plated material was stripped, but while it was still in the solution, it didn't look like it stripped it all until I took the basket out and the pins were indeed completely stripped.

As for how many pins I'm doing at once, I did one batch of 100 grams in 4 batches, because my basket and cell isn't that big. I'll be moving to a bigger cell once I finish these pins I have and am able to refine, wash/rinse/dry and melt/pour a gold button.

Kevin

 

[steyr223]

Thanks for the reply Kevin
I wonder if that was my problem Especially due to my color blindness,
i did notice that some were duller than others.

You probably already know this but a bigger cell just
make longer periods of time in the cell which to me equals
more heat.
I do not know how long you can run the cell for
before it overheats I know it has to do with size but each piece
That you deplate takes an finite amount of time will still take
that same amount of time even in a bigger cell
I hope this helps
My .28%
Steyr223 rob

 

[Anonymous]

Since my cell is working without any problems, I might just keep the one that I have. I do, however have 2 more glass dishes of the same size as the cell I'm using. I'll read up on making a cell charger with one of my computer power supplies I have. That way I can have 2 or more cells running at one time.

Kevin

 

[Anonymous]

I have one 1000 ml beaker filled to 660+/- ml of sulfuric from deplating gold pins, yet, in 4 hours from now it'll be 48 hours since I've let it sit, yet, the solution is still black and even using a flashlight, I can't see through the beaker, nor can I see the light even though it's shining in from the back end of me looking into it.

I read it should take around 36 hours for the gold to settle. I'm being patient, but was wondering if I need to siphon the solution so I can reuse it, even though it's still completely black?

On another note: Since the gold is black while in the solution, is there a way to recover what might me in the deplated pile that is water and baking soda?

Kevin

 

[tek4g63]

Since my cell is working without any problems, I might just keep the one that I have. I do, however have 2 more glass dishes of the same size as the cell I'm using. I'll read up on making a cell charger with one of my computer power supplies I have. That way I can have 2 or more cells running at one time.

Kevin

Kevin.
I have converted several computer power supplies to be use for this type of cell and various other things. I'll open one of mine up and show you exactly how. I can't post pictures on here with my phone, but I will email them to you and you can share them here if you would like. I think that you will like the way I do it. Its neat, clean and user friendly and best of all it costs less than $5.00

Any gold powders that are in your rinse water can easily be recovered. What I would do is decant off the rinse water and wash the powders with hot water several times to remove any baking soda. Then they can be added to your black powders from your cell when your ready to dissolve the gold for the refine step. Just don't put them back into your cell, that would be counter productive.

 

[Anonymous]

Any gold powders that are in your rinse water can easily be recovered. What I would do is decant off the rinse water and wash the powders with hot water several times to remove any baking soda. Then they can be added to your black powders from your cell when your ready to dissolve the gold for the refine step. Just don't put them back into your cell, that would be counter productive.

Are you saying "Don't put the pins back in the cell, even if they're washed and dried?". I already stripped about 3 lbs of pins so far, but some of them haven't stripped at all or completely, but I do know that the scrap pile with water/baking soda I put the stripped pins in have plenty of black settling at the bottom of the pail.

Hopefully the batch I have settling now for 48 hours will start to clear up so I can continue.

Kevin

 

[butcher]

Most of the gold should fall to the bottom by then I wouldn't worry so much about the color, I would be more concerned of water being absorbed into solution. the color of the acid may have darkened with metals, any little bit of gold will be recovered later.

 

[tek4g63]

I suppose that you could put the unfinished pins back in if they have been properly washed and dried. I personally don't put baking soda in my rinse water. I use plain ol' distilled water. That way if stripping didn't complete all I have to do is let them dry before reprocessing. It also helps when it comes to recovering the rinse powders.

Also remember to keep your sulfuric acid sealed in an air tight container when letting powders settle and when not in use. Sulfuric acid likes to pull moisture out of the air and with the rainy weather we have just had it won't take long to dilute your acid. When it gets diluted it will start pulling in base metals and get hot much faster.

Once you get your cell setup right they are a joy to operate.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks butcher. I used a flashlight today and shined it in from the top of the beaker to the bottom, and I can see gold that has settled to the bottom. I'll siphon the liquid off from the top back into my cell to reuse.

To tek4g63, thanks for the tip about rinsing the pins. I'll use distilled water from now on. Also, even though I put my cells away when not in use, I'll make sure to also cover them so no moisture can be pulled in.

Thanks to both of you for your replies and guidance. It really makes a difference.

Kevin

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Kevin,

I know I'm a little late getting to this thread, but I do want to make one comment on your basket. Ideally, you want just a very short lip on the part of the basket closest to your lead cathode. You don't want the copper screen to come between the pins you're putting in it and your cathode. When it is high like what you have, it creates somewhat of a Faraday cage effect. You want the current from the anode to flow as freely as possible to the cathode. When the copper screen is between your pins and the cathode, it makes it harder for the current to flow.

Looks good!

Dave

 

[Anonymous]

Kevin,

I know I'm a little late getting to this thread, but I do want to make one comment on your basket. Ideally, you want just a very short lip on the part of the basket closest to your lead cathode. You don't want the copper screen to come between the pins you're putting in it and your cathode. When it is high like what you have, it creates somewhat of a Faraday cage effect. You want the current from the anode to flow as freely as possible to the cathode. When the copper screen is between your pins and the cathode, it makes it harder for the current to flow.

Looks good!

Dave

Dave,

What I've done is squeeze the basket closer to itself now and bent it down more so that the basket is completely in the solution. For the most part, the cell has been working like a charm. No problems so far. I also like the fact that the sulfuric acid can be reused after I get my black powder out of it. Really nice... even though I need to get some more.

I also noticed that I need to look at lazersteve's video again because my copper basket has begun to erode with light blue copper sediment on the edge of the cell and the basket is almost eaten up along the edge of it, where it bends over the cell. I bought some copper scouring pads to start cleaning my baskets along the top bend portion to help keep it lasting longer. I have enough copper to make another basket, but I'll be ordering more from Steve very soon.

On another note: I have already washed my black powder and I put it in a pyrex dish and I burned the filter and cooked the powder until it got red, not melting it though, and I left it overnight in that same dish.

My question is, since I've got around 8 grams of black powder, how much Hydrochloric Acid am I supposed to use? Do I use just enough to cover the powder, or maybe 2x the amount of black powder, or more?

According to the thread below, the 2nd post on that page, I've completed all 12 steps. Now I'm working on step 13, with the exception that I'm going to add the Hydrochloric Acid after I transfer the powder to the beaker.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=7093&start=80

Is the 500 ml beaker large enough for the amount of black powder I'm working with at the moment?

For the most part, everything is going well without any problems at all.

Any help appreciated!


Kevin

[EDIT]
I added the word SOLVED in the title because my initial concern has been solved. However, The questions in this post aren't answered yet, so I'm still looking around for a solution that will work.

 

[lazersteve]

Q1. Can any gold be recovered from the rinse solution? My rinse solution is tap water and baking soda. I let my solution drip back into the cell, but I also notice that some specks of black are being deposited into the rinse pail.

Vacuum filter the rinse solution until clear and particulate free. Rinse the filtered solids with some diluted HCL while they are still in the vacuum rig. Combine these solids with your primary cell yields for the batch.

Q2. Is there a way to rinse the solution back into the cell with more sulfuric to wash the black away before rinsing?

If you vacuum filter the entire cell contents through a polypropylene, Fiberglass plug, or Teflon filter you can reuse the clean concentrated acid directly in the next cell set up. Be very conscious of your safety and wear all the appropriate personal protective gear when working with concentrated sulfuric acid. Proper workspace ventilation and an acid proof catch basin are mandatory. Aerosolized (fine mist) sulfuric acid is a carcinogen (cancer causing agent). The filter material and gold are now processed directly in AR to dissolve the gold, followed by standard gold processes thereafter (filter transparent, precipitate, wash, repeat, dry, melt).

Q3. What is the ideal temp to have the gold settle to the bottom?

No need to wait for settling, simply vacuum filter with proper filter material as stated above. Poly melts around 130C, Teflon around 327C. Your cell should never be run over 100C (30-40C is optimal in my opinion) and will likely be impossible to safely handle above 40C.

Q4. Does it actually take approximately 24 hours for the gold to settle or is there a way to speed up the process?

See replies above.

Steve