Topher DMG will produce voluminous quantities of precipitate, it's best used as a test for Pd, I would still go for the simple way i outlined if you have no or little silver to worry about, you can still separate the Pd and Pt using nitric if it's worth the effort or simply keep the blacks for later treatment.
Stock Pot Processing
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[/quote]
8) thats alot of cell slime...
What do you do with your sulfuric that has Ag in solution/ Silver Sulphate? [/quote]
I treat silver sulfate the same way as silver nitrate just drop the silver with copper.
The only difference is it is more selective about what it puts into solution.
8) thats alot of cell slime...
What do you do with your sulfuric that has Ag in solution/ Silver Sulphate? [/quote]
I treat silver sulfate the same way as silver nitrate just drop the silver with copper.
The only difference is it is more selective about what it puts into solution.
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it is only voluminous if you have a lot of Pd.nickvc said:
I do not find that much ,over two years I only have a very small amount.hard to quantify as I do not handle it and put it straight into the storage jar.
Unless you have kilo's of dental alloy I can not see that the chloride rout has any advantage. as you are tying up a commodity you can trade readily for a future pay day.
I actively try not to buy P.G.M.'s as they so far have only ever tied up my investment indefinitely and the specialist processing needed from out side firms make it very much less profitable.
They may be valuable impurity's but trace impurity's none the less
Topher_osAUrus
Well-known member
nickvc said:
I probably will follow your outline above for the time being. I am not set up to properly handle and manage pgm salts. And besides lacking the equipment necessary, I lack the knowledge as well. While I do have dmg, my use with it begins and ends with testing white gold for palladium and/or nickel.
So I will just keep on cementing and saving the blacks for some time to come. I dont get alot of them in my scrap, so that may take awhile to accumulate enough to justify processing.
@justin. When treating silver with sulfuric, Im going to assume you use diluted sulfuric since you are cementing it out with copper? Im not 100% sure, but I believe that makes silver bisulphide not silver sulfide... Thats just conjecture though, I'm no silver scientist
Either way, that sounds much easier than smelting with rebar or pouring ferrous sulfate over the silver sulfide crystals.
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Topher_osAUrus said:
Ag2SO4 to Cu2SO4 by replacement of copper by reactive series I hope I have not inadvertently produced any sulfides .
Not sure of the affect on my waste stream which is where such a compound would end up.
Hopefully the re-bar I put in when melting my chloride conversion's would help .
Topher_osAUrus
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Hopefully GSP can shed a little light on this. But, its my understanding concentrated sulfuric creates silver sulfide which is soluble in concentrated sulfuric, if the sulfuric acid has steam passed over it slowly down to 60% concentration, the silver sulfide crystals will precipitate out of solution. But, (this is where Im unsure) dilute sulfuric will also dissolve silver, but make silver bisulfide instead (which is a white mushy crystal, instead of nice dense yellow ones). The silver sulfide is easier to reduce with chemical means (by my understanding anyways)...
But, if you are cementing with copper, via displacement reaction it wouldnt matter -so long as the silver sulfide is in solution still, the silver would be returned to metallic state, and the copper would be the sulfide then... I was curious about the concentration you were using, as I'm not sure how the copper displacement would work in concentrated sulfuric (assuming yours is), since concentrated sulfuric doesnt readily act on copper... But, I guess the chemistry would/could be different since there is a more noble metal in solution?
Hell, I don't know... But I would love to find out!
But, if you are cementing with copper, via displacement reaction it wouldnt matter -so long as the silver sulfide is in solution still, the silver would be returned to metallic state, and the copper would be the sulfide then... I was curious about the concentration you were using, as I'm not sure how the copper displacement would work in concentrated sulfuric (assuming yours is), since concentrated sulfuric doesnt readily act on copper... But, I guess the chemistry would/could be different since there is a more noble metal in solution?
Hell, I don't know... But I would love to find out!
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Are you mixing up Sulfide and sulfate?Topher_osAUrus said:
Sulfuric reacts with copper quite well how else do you make copper sulfate? hydrogen sulfide is the normal way to form Sulfides.
I can not think of a place out side a stripping cell you would use acid so concentrated it would pacify copper as it only takes a trace of H2O to start the reaction.
Yep. You can say that again !g_axelsson said:
If i add zinc to the rest of the stock pot solution, the precipitate will contain all the PMs, all the original copper +more from the 'cementing out' copper, tin, lead, iron, plus added zinc if i add too much, which i certainly have on the 1st litre.
At the bottom of the stock pot (5L HDPE water jug) there is a small amount of fine black powder, which is probably the best material out of the whole mess.
A concern is the colours on the copper pipe used for cementing out. Some were white !
All the junk that would wash off the pipe was washed back into the pot.
I should stop calling it a 'stock pot' as it is basically a bottle in which the mess is kept, rather than the selected liquids after certain refining steps.
So, Copper is the largest enemy in the mixture (apart from my idiocy) so best get thinking and researching before doing anything else.
Topher_osAUrus
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justinhcase said:
I use 95% in my cell and it doesn't attack the copper, much lower and it will.
https://www.911metallurgist.com/blog/refining-gold-sulphuric-acid
That is where I was reading of sulfuric and silver. The site was posted on here awhile ago, and members mentioned it was just snippets of old books compiled together and branded as a website.
upcyclist
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That's J's point--you were talking about producing silver sulfide, both he and the source you quoted discuss silver sulfate.Topher_osAUrus said:
Topher_osAUrus
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I got ya' now.. Sorry, took me a minute longer to get there.. But, I'm here now. Hello. :roll: :?
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Sulfides are very interesting when we look at ore ,all thous volcanic vents producing Hydrogen sulfide.
Under pressure becoming soluble in liquid salts,then getting transported and deposited in concentrated seams.
Lovely,much harder to do in captivity.
But an easy mistake to make,Sulfides Sulfates ,chlorides Chlorate's ,Nitrates Nitrites,thank the lord we are not involved in organic chemistry isomers and the such my head would explode.
Under pressure becoming soluble in liquid salts,then getting transported and deposited in concentrated seams.
Lovely,much harder to do in captivity.
But an easy mistake to make,Sulfides Sulfates ,chlorides Chlorate's ,Nitrates Nitrites,thank the lord we are not involved in organic chemistry isomers and the such my head would explode.
Topher_osAUrus
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:lol:
Yeah, I tend to read things too quickly at times and misread the words. Which mistakes minute differences. ...that aren't really minute at all in this case. Definitely not a good thing to do in the world of complex chemistry. ...I've read lots of threads where people mistake sodium metabisulfate for sodium metabisulfite.....now I am one of those people.
Yeah, I tend to read things too quickly at times and misread the words. Which mistakes minute differences. ...that aren't really minute at all in this case. Definitely not a good thing to do in the world of complex chemistry. ...I've read lots of threads where people mistake sodium metabisulfate for sodium metabisulfite.....now I am one of those people.
Don't feel too bad.Topher_osAUrus said:I've read lots of threads where people mistake sodium metabisulfate for sodium metabisulfite.....now I am one of those people.
X-ite and X-ate are quite confusing to begin with in chemistry.
Thankfully we have IUPAC trying to make it clear and easy.
Water is now called Oxidane, to avoid (!) confusion with Oxirane (ethylene oxide).
upcyclist
Well-known member
If only it were easier than the current series of clicks to do subscripts here on the forums. Then we could just easily crank out "Ag2SO4" and we wouldn't have to worry about catching ___ite or ___ate or ___ide. Heck, even when we do, autocorrect still ruins it
Geo
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aga said:
dihydrogen monoxide.
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As I had mentioned how little P.G.M. I have had through so far.
I thought you might would like to see what I was talking about.
The beaker on the left is the silver cell slime,Not so slimy any more quite nice and black from the sulfuric washing.Next second left is the only bit of Pt I have ever processed.Regrettably I was talked into running about 40K of jet blades against my better judgment and got just under half a kilo of Platinum Ammonium Chloride.Git did not pay me ,Said one of the best refinery's in the U.K had mismanaged the sale.So had to dumped that chap and walk away from a lot of planing to set up a facility.That is all I got to keep from the first test run.
Second right is all the Rh.I can just get enough into solution to test but nothing else.
And far right is the Massive amount of Pd I have trapped using dimethyl Glutamate.
Quite glad it is so small after hearing all the health problems people have experienced.
Glove up at all times.
Deleted redundancy
I thought you might would like to see what I was talking about.
The beaker on the left is the silver cell slime,Not so slimy any more quite nice and black from the sulfuric washing.Next second left is the only bit of Pt I have ever processed.Regrettably I was talked into running about 40K of jet blades against my better judgment and got just under half a kilo of Platinum Ammonium Chloride.Git did not pay me ,Said one of the best refinery's in the U.K had mismanaged the sale.So had to dumped that chap and walk away from a lot of planing to set up a facility.That is all I got to keep from the first test run.
Second right is all the Rh.I can just get enough into solution to test but nothing else.
And far right is the Massive amount of Pd I have trapped using dimethyl Glutamate.
Quite glad it is so small after hearing all the health problems people have experienced.
Glove up at all times.
Deleted redundancy
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Topher_osAUrus
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Your silver cell slime (..I know, this dog just can't let go of that bone)... Do you use a filter material that you can wash off and reuse, or do you use muslin cloth and incinerate the entire filter? Then begin your sulfuric leach?
Ive been using muslin cloth, but have been reading about the reusable ones and am intrigued.
Ive been using muslin cloth, but have been reading about the reusable ones and am intrigued.
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For the Cell basket I use a Polyurethane felt that shrinks when boiled.Topher_osAUrus said:
I fit it to my basket and put in hot water,This brings the fibers closer together.Two layers seems to trap all the little particles.
I wash with distilled water until It is clean and reuse.May be a little nitric wash to take the last of the small Ag particulate ,But then just install again.
To clean the cell I just leave to settle no filtering at all,It is just too fine.washing takes weeks but I am in no hurry.
Topher_osAUrus
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Where might a guy in the states (the middle of nowhere, actually) go about finding that material? Is it a specialised order online, or something you go to the store for?
