Testing clay

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AgAuPtRh

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
108
Location
Deep in the Redwoods
I'm not sure that "clay" is the correct term for the material -- but that's what I would call it.

The reasons for asking -- not far from where I live there was a fairly large Gold discovery in the mid 1800's. The beaches as well were worked pretty hard during the depression with long sluice boxes. Geology reports I have read for this area indicate the presence of Gold in certain layers/locations.

Has anybody here on the forum ever recovered fine Gold from clay?


Steve K
 
Dredgers call clay a gold robber. Gold will adhere to the damp clay like you wouldn't believe. To completely free gold from clay you need to emulsify the clay completely.

When I got started prospecting, my dad and I met a 90+yr old gentleman. He was one of those lucky guys that during the Deprssion not only owned the land, but leased it to a mining company and worked for the company. He told us a bout a rich strata that he ran into. After work he got a couple of butterchurns full of the bluish clay, and worked it up in his wifes butterchurn. The clay was so thick and sticky, he could only work about 5lbs of clay at a time.

Needless to say, when his wife got home he almost got the "rolling pin" treatment. I guess fortunately for him, he had enough out of the first workings to get his wife a new butterchurn.

He did recover over a pound of gold from the clay. He worked it to a thin slurry, then ran the slurry thru a small sluice. He still had the small wooden sluce and the old butterchurn. That sluice still would capture some small flakes.

Anyway, break up any clays to a thin slurry in water, then either pan it or run it thru a good sluice. You'd be surprised how well the clays hold gold.

Chuck
 
Thanks Chuck -- I appreciate the input.

Now about that "bluish color"???

Is that a typical "color" to look for ? The clay I'm finding ranges from a light yellow to an orange/brown. I have found some really mucky, sticky blue stuff on the beaches. I may have to go back out and get some.

I did hear a few guys talking about the "invisible" or "micron" gold trapped in clay in our area. Unfortunately I didn't get any details. I think they noticed I was listening and they clammed up pretty quick.

My curiosity though is getting the best of me.

Thanks again

Steve K
 
The clay can be any color. The main gold bearing clays around here tend to have a bluish color because they are decomposing bedrock. Especially when the bedrock is near the surface or exposed with deep cracks or crevaces. I have found gold in red clays too. The Alaskan miners generally say the redder the better when looking for gold. It's just where the right mineralization is.
Chuck
 
After you break up the clay real good- be sure to use a sluice specifically designed for fine gold. Commercial sluices these days running riffles are OK on larger gold, but fine gold needs low turbulance to settle out. The "Dam Fine Sluice" comes to mind, or search out discussions on Nome Beach Boxes, also good for small gold. Good to see some more interest in regular prospecting here. Mark
 
AgAuPtRh-

You wouldn't be talking about the SF beach placers are you? You and I are in the same area, I think.

Fever
 
Yup fever -- I am between SF and Santa Cruz in the Mountains. About 10 miles from the beach.

I've seen some photo's of the depression days and the miners working the beaches from Santa Cruz to Sf. Santa Cruz seems to have been a better location for placer and fine Gold, but there were reports of some good nuggets being recovered on North Beach in Sf.

Not far from me is a place called Gold Gulch. There was a really good strike there and some tunneling started but abandoned because of so many tunnels caving in. The Gold discovery was several pounds worth trapped in a quarts vein. Much of the area is now either Federal or State land.

I live on a private property of 170 acres. The owners don't mind me poking around with a metal detector or playin' in the dirt. heh heh !!!! I don't have much time for either but will have time this summer.

There are also some massive deposits of black sand here. But I have read some reports that nothing of any precious metal value was in it. I've done some small testing on my own on the black sand. Removed the magnetic material -- ground it down to a really fine mesh 200 or better. Then did a hot nitric -- tested with stannous chloride and potassium iodide.
Results were negative. I haven't tried any firing because I don't have a furnace yet.
 
I found some interesting stuff on kiln/furnace construction at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~knapper/building your own kiln.htm

I've already ordered the parts to build one using this same concept, but redesigned for the home hobbyist with gold recovery in mind. It's another project I'll be sharing with the forum soon. I've got to get back on the karat gold cell so I can move on to the furnace. Not many members have expressed interest in the karat gold cell so I may move it to the back burner to do the mini furnace project instead. A furnace would be a handy tool.

I'm planning on building a miniature (50 oz crucible) tilt furnance design that reaches 1200 C if I can get the design to go up to that temp. What do you guys think?

Steve
 
lazersteve said:
I found some interesting stuff on kiln/furnace construction at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~knapper/building your own kiln.htm

I've already ordered the parts to build one using this same concept, but redesigned for the home hobbyist with gold recovery in mind. It's another project I'll be sharing with the forum soon. I've got to get back on the karat gold cell so I can move on to the furnace. Not many members have expressed interest in the karat gold cell so I may move it to the back burner to do the mini furnace project instead. A furnace would be a handy tool.

I'm planning on building a miniature (50 oz crucible) tilt furnance design that reaches 1200 C if I can get the design to go up to that temp. What do you guys think?

Steve
A tilt furnace would be great. But for now, I'm more interested in the karat gold cell. :D Also, on how to re-use your diluted sulphuric acid.
 
There is a guy on ebay that builds the "Cowboy Furnace" . It's a portable tilt furnace. I've never wanted to buy one myself but want to build one. Maybe two. So discovering what others are doing in this arena would be interesting. Count me in Steve.


Steve K
 
Here is a link to a kit like the cowboy furnace;
http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/hmkit.html
I have the kit but need to get the refractory for it.
This is his website;http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/
There is alot of cool stuff on there, I would think that this
furnace should get hot enought to melt gold.
 
It's tied at 1 and 1 for which is next on the tutorials list.

bermudanibiru999 said:
Also, on how to re-use your diluted sulphuric acid.

Dave,
Chris (GSP) made a suggestion that has already proven valuable to me with the acid recycling. He said to let all the black powder settle to the bottom of the cell and carefully pour off the clearer concentrated acid before diluting. I tried it after processing five pounds of low grade scrap and it worked great. I poured off the upper 2.5-2.75 cups of concentrated acid into a pyrex dish for reuse and performed the dilution as normal on the remaining acid and powder.
To recycle the dilute acid just boil it down until no more volume is lost and reuse again. If it gets too dark green, you can put piece of SS steel in the boiled down acid for both the anode and cathode and run the cell unitl the copper all plates out.

Steve
 
AgAuPtRh said:
Yup fever -- I am between SF and Santa Cruz in the Mountains. About 10 miles from the beach.

I've seen some photo's of the depression days and the miners working the beaches from Santa Cruz to Sf. Santa Cruz seems to have been a better location for placer and fine Gold, but there were reports of some good nuggets being recovered on North Beach in Sf.

Not far from me is a place called Gold Gulch. There was a really good strike there and some tunneling started but abandoned because of so many tunnels caving in. The Gold discovery was several pounds worth trapped in a quarts vein. Much of the area is now either Federal or State land.

I live on a private property of 170 acres. The owners don't mind me poking around with a metal detector or playin' in the dirt. heh heh !!!! I don't have much time for either but will have time this summer.

There are also some massive deposits of black sand here. But I have read some reports that nothing of any precious metal value was in it. I've done some small testing on my own on the black sand. Removed the magnetic material -- ground it down to a really fine mesh 200 or better. Then did a hot nitric -- tested with stannous chloride and potassium iodide.
Results were negative. I haven't tried any firing because I don't have a furnace yet.

Very cool!

I hit the Sierras just about every weekend for sniping along the American and Bear rivers. I mostly hand dredge underwater and crack the bedrock with my home-made knives and wedges. It's a blast, but's it's a bit cool right now to be underwater! I pan on going up this weekend and doing some crevicing and panning. I've processed all of my winter black sands, so now I need to "stock up" on them again, lol.

Fever
 
My furnace will be electric and much smaller than the cowboy furnace. It's still all in my head but the ideas are coming fast. I'll keep posting on the subject over the course of the next week.

Anyone else have any furnace designs or design tips?

Steve
 
fever,

heh heh !!! I just dig the heck out of finding things on the beaches here that have been trapped in cracks and holes in the clay bed and boulders. I haven't run in to too many people that know about that.

I keep a nice long pair of needle nose pliers and a pair of hemostat/forceps that are about 18 inches long. They both work great. I found a really nice spot that I'm waiting on. The tides need to be right to get to it.

Good luck in the gold country.
 
lazersteve,

In another post by "Sue" he mentioned thinking outside the box.

I like the cowboy furnace but have been wondering about a different design concept. I don't know if it would help to create more heat or not -- but here's the idea.

The cowboy furnace is a cylinder. I've been wondering if modifying that cylinder to a cone shape -- wide at the bottom tapering to the top -- Maybe that would concentrate the heat as it rises making it possible for a higher temp firing -- I've wondered if that idea might also save on fuel cost. If it gets to a higher temp sooner and doesn't need as much fuel to maintain the temp -- could save on the propane bill. Introducing some forced air like a muffle furnace might help it a tad too.

Unfortunately I have a job that keeps me from playing around as much as I would like. LOL
 
Steve. A few things.

I really don't think you'll be happy with an electric furnace. Some of the stuff you'll melt can corrode the elements. After the first heat, the elements become brittle. You will have spills. Unless you have a hi dollar controller, you can have a melt down. I would definitely build a gas furnace on the order of the link on jimdocs post:
http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/hmkit.html

This lid arrangement, though, is too complicated. The easiest is to use a pivot pin, at the back, where the metal lid ring meets the body. Instead of lifting the lid, you pivot it to the side. Very simple. You weld two pieces of pipe, about 3" long. Weld one flush to the top of the body and the other to the lid. Weld about 1/2 of the bottom of the body pipe closed. You put the lid on the body, line up the larger pieces of pipe, and insert the pin. The pin should not be too loose but definitely not snug. For the large #70 furnace, I used 1" to 1 1/4" and 3/4" pipes, I think. Try various sizes for fit. Make the pin long enough so that it sticks up about an inch above the lid. That way, if you want to remove the lid for relining, you simply pull the pin. Don't seal the bottom of the body pipe completely. If you leave a gap, you can clean dirt, etc., out of it. Weld a [ shaped handle, from rebar, to the front of the lid.

Use refractory cement - about $50/bag. Plan on a 2.5" - 3" bottom, sides, and lid thickness for a small to medium furnace. I prefer large diameter pipe for the body and lid - about 1/8" thick - from a scrap yard. Have the pipe cut accurately and grind very flat. Weld a plate on the bottom. Weld 4 short lengths of rebar inside the lid to support the refractory. Use an empty can as a mold for the hole in the lid. Use a soup can for a small furnace and a 1# coffee can for a large furnace. You'll need something round as a mold to cast the walls. Use something you can get out after casting or, something you can burn out. For a small furnace, you can use collapsible stove pipe. For larger furnaces, they make sturdy cardboard tubing of various sizes.

I prefer natural gas over propane because, small propane tanks freeze up, especially in cold weather, and stop working. But, if the furnace is outside, you'll probably have to use propane. Propane is hotter and I've run #20 furnaces on 3/8" copper tubing. You can use an old upright vacuum cleaner as an air supply. I can talk more about the burner later, if you're interested. I need to get up my Adobe Illustrator.

A #4 silicon carbide crucible holds 4# of aluminum. Although that sounds big, it's about right for 50 oz of gold. Go to a foundry supply, on the web, and find the dimensions of the size crucible you want. Plan on a gap of about 2" between the crucible and the walls. This way, you can determine what diameter the furnace should be. A #12 crucible is about the biggest that can be handled with 1 man tongs. Above that, you need 2 man lifters and pourers. I would build a bigger furnace than you think you need. For 9999 gold, you need a small dedicated furnace. If you melt less pure gold, silver, or any other stuff in it, you'll contaminate the very pure gold.

If you want to blow up a furnace, leave it outside in the rain, unsheltered. The one on wheels, in the link, might be a good idea.

I probably haven't give enough info or, explained well enough what I did give, to build a furnace. I need drawings.

Another subject. You mentioned plating out copper and nickel from the sulfuric after evaporating the water from the dilute sulfuric. I question whether this will work but, it depends on how strong you get it. You will have more luck plating out of the dilute sulfuric before evaporating. Use a lead anode.
 
I have seen some made with freon or propane tanks also that look
small and convenient for lighter melts. I have some freon tanks I
plan on trying this spring after I get the other one together. There may be pictures of these type on backyardmetalcasting. I plan on using the kit I bought to cast aluminum, but will try it out on the precious metals also.
Also I plan on using it to roast the catalytic converter material to burn off the carbon.
 
I bought this 45,000 btu burner from Armadillo clay & supplies in Austin, it has a plate to adjust the airflow on the backside. I attached it to a 1/2 in copper pipe myself, not sure what they would reccommend. They are made for heat source in home pottery kilns. I use mine in a homemade forge, from 2-, 3/4 ton rear brake drums. You can insulate with refractory material from ceramic suppy houses.
Doubles as melting furnace as 8lb salamander clay melting crusible fits nicely into forge!
I think burner was about $45.

Wayne
 

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Here i am digging up cd's again.

( Temp control ) Thermocouple, controller,
And a electric gas control valve . Gas valve can be from a home heating unit. $ 60-100 on the cheap.

Ill pick you out some good refractory if you want. . Use 304 stainless anchors. Never put carbon steel in or between refractory.
I wrote a 20 min post on this awhile ago , But the dam computer ate it. :twisted:

One of my favorite forums. http://www.eng-tips.com/

OMG. :shock: I can't believe this site is even still up. This was one of my earlier small ventures before i got into the big machines. lol http://aluminumrecycler.tripod.com/index.html

I use to build and design aluminum sweat furnaces. ( remember the scrap business ? )

For any fuel, there's a fixed quantity of air required to burn it completely. Known as the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio, it varies with the chemical makeup of the fuel. For natural gas, it ranges from around 9.5 to 10.5 ft3 of air per cubic foot of gas, yielding between 950 and 1,100 BTUs of heat. Values of 10 to 1 and 1,000 BTU commonly are used for estimating purposes. Combustion produces a mixture of gases -- the products of combustion -- containing about 10% CO2, 20% water vapor and 70% nitrogen. The heat of combustion is absorbed by these gases, raising them to 3,200oF or higher. This is the flame temperature.
Flow
Gas flow is determined by the sum of the input requirements
of the equipment served. Most appliances are rated in
terms of BTUs (British Thermal Units). Fortunately, BTUs
are easily converted to CFH (Cubic Feet per Hour) by
dividing by 1,000. So, an appliance with a 540,000 BTU
input requirement consumes 540 CFH of gas. Similarly,
CFH and MBTUs are virtually identical. You also should be
aware that one therm of gas is 100,000 BTUs or 100 CFH.
Most sizing tables and charts are based on CFH, while
billing rates are usually based on therms.

Gas Pressure
There are two components of gas pressure that the
designer must address, namely supply pressure and delivery
pressure. First, let’s discuss the latter.

Most gas-fired appliances have a gas pressure delivery
requirement defined as low pressure. Typically, this is
expressed as a minimum of about 7” water column (w.c.).

Low-pressure gas is measured in inches of head. Since we
know that there are 12” in a foot, and one foot of water
equals 0.433 psi, then 7” w.c. is 7/12 x 0.433 = 0.25 psi. The
typical gas-fired range, water heater, oven, dryer, boiler,
Bunsen burner, etc., will perform properly with this lowpressure

Just some points,

Ralph
 

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