Time To Get The Gold!!

[NobleMetalWorks]

It is important that someone respond to posts such as this, as the casual reader may not understand the ramifications of pursuing the recovery of gold without proper knowledge and equipment. Thus, even a troll requires a response.

You are of course right Harold, and this is exactly the reason I felt I should post, I should have done so when I first saw it.

Scott

 

[goldsilverpro]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1138&bih=468&q=acid+burns&oq=acid+burns&gs_l=img.3..0l8j0i5l2.2354.8230.0.8735.10.9.0.1.1.0.155.1140.0j9.9.0....0...1ac.1.22.img..0.10.1152.Dw6NVKwlDF8

Only an idiot would EVEN CONSIDER refining in his home, let alone actually do it. You are just so incredibly ignorant of all this, you are not capable of making a sound decision. There was a lot of good advice given on this thread. Study it and live. Ignore it and die.

Here's the REALITY of what this stuff is worth. To me, the easiest way to get a ball park idea of value is to measure the surface area that has gold on it and then calculate the number of square inches.

Most all of the gold you will find on common electronics is plated in 2 thicknesses. The thicker of the 2 is on stuff that is plugged into other parts and would suffer wear. Connector pins and circuit board fingers fall into that category. Their average value is about 45 cents per square inch of plated area, at a $1333 gold price.

Thinner gold is usually found on large flat areas or on other components that will not suffer any wear. It usually runs from about 5 to 15 cents per square inch of gold plated area.

The only common usage of solid gold is the yellow variety of the fine wire used to connect IC chips. An ounce of it is from 2 (.001" dia.) to 4 (.0007" dia.) miles long.

 

[Harold_V]

Only an idiot would EVEN CONSIDER refining in his home, let alone actually do it.

Early in my refining years, I met a guy who was processing silver. I was concentrating on gold. Bumped in to him at a store where one could buy used electrical things. We talked briefly, and I discovered he lived only about a mile from me. We became friends and exchanged information for some time, until he moved to Idaho.

This guy refined in his basement. A visit to his house was an experience I'll not soon forget, as the smell was overwhelming. He later moved his operation to a lean-to behind his garage, where conditions didn't improve much. He made strange decisions, including doing his filtration in a sink (what happens if you break a vessel, as he did when he was filtering more than two ounces of gold?). He would also melt his refined gold in a dirty dish. It's as if he had no concept of hygiene or good practice.

What I learned from my observations was that this was the type of individual he was. Slip shod in everything he did, and not successful in life. He never allowed wisdom and common sense to influence decisions he made. I had warned him time and again about using his sink for filtration.

Harold

 

[Harold_V]

It is important that someone respond to posts such as this, as the casual reader may not understand the ramifications of pursuing the recovery of gold without proper knowledge and equipment. Thus, even a troll requires a response.

You are of course right Harold, and this is exactly the reason I felt I should post, I should have done so when I first saw it.

Scott

Persistence, as shown by this individual, won't be tolerated. We spend countless hours trying to have readers understand that there are proper procedures one must follow--not only for success, but for safety. To have posts made that contradict what is taught here tends to undo a lot of the hard work we've done, and, if nothing else, it's damned disruptive.

Why in hell should any of us spend time with ANYONE who is so single minded as to disregard everything they're told and keep coming back with the same tired laments? That shows a total disregard for good and proper information that is being dispensed----a sure sign of one with an entitlement attitude.

It is for that reason I have suggested that any further posts of a similar nature from this individual will result in his being banned. He has shown a complete lack of understanding and appears to be determined to do things his way.

That dog won't hunt.

Harold

 

[Gettinthegold]

I downloaded the book and printed it out. I'm in the process of binding it up and gluing a spine in.

Question: how come the motor in the exhaust fan in the fume hood doesn't decay when the gasses and fumes touch it? What makes that fan any more impervious to the gasses than the motor in my fan. I understand that my fan isn't good enough for ventilation, for several reasons. I'm just asking to clarify why a fume hood fan is impervious to the fumes and gasses when mine is not.

I told my friend to put a hold on all the chemicals.

I seriously hope this post doesn't get me banned... '_' If so, thanks for all the info thus far.

 

[solar_plasma]

Question: how come the motor in the exhaust fan in the fume hood doesn't decay when the gasses and fumes touch it? What makes that fan any more impervious to the gasses than the motor in my fan. I understand that my fan isn't good enough for ventilation, for several reasons. I'm just asking to clarify why a fume hood fan is impervious to the fumes and gasses when mine is not.

Look at some professional fumehoods:
http://www.google.de/search?q=fumeh...FPfHCgdgH&sqi=2&ved=0CD8QsAQ&biw=1600&bih=728

And some fumehood scrubbers:
http://www.google.de/search?q=fumeh...69,d.ZWU&fp=aa8c8e704c10c1d5&biw=1600&bih=728

The meaning of a fumehood is not only to get gas and fume out, but also to prevent totally that any gas or fumes come into your room.

Unless you build a real good laboratory like many have done, it is impossible, even if you are experienced and knowledgable to avoid fuming, to use for example AR or ACl processes indoors without damaging yourself and anything made of metal. Doing some processes outside may be possible, if you know what and how, though I am not a great fan of that.

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

Question: how come the motor in the exhaust fan in the fume hood doesn't decay when the gasses and fumes touch it? What makes that fan any more impervious to the gasses than the motor in my fan. I understand that my fan isn't good enough for ventilation, for several reasons. I'm just asking to clarify why a fume hood fan is impervious to the fumes and gasses when mine is not.

Different fume hoods are intended for different applications. If you are using a fume hood that is not rated for corrosive gas, and you produce corrosive gas, the fume hood fan will encounter the same problem as the fan in your window.

There is a way to connect an exhaust, with a fan that pushes rather than pulls, and under those conditions if built correctly you can use a fume hood in this way, so long as you have positive air flow at the face, and the fume hood was build for corrosive gases.

The best way is to use an enclosed reaction system. Short of that the next best way is to use a fume hood rated for corrosive gas and connected to a fume scrubber so that the gases are neutralized before they are exhausted...

Think about this, you are proposing to mix acids that are so corrosive that they are able to dissolve one of the most non-reactive metals known to man. And you think that the gases produced are not going to harm the metals in your fan?

Not to mention the fact that you should not, as others have mentioned, do this inside your home. It's too dangerous! Some people do it outside, and even at that it is dangerous but at least the gases are well ventilated. NOx is highly corrosive, anything metal it comes into contact with it will attack. Look around the room you are proposing to do this in, look at all the things that are metal, including light sockets and switches, window seals, your fan, and anything else with metal.

Not to mention yourself.

If you really are confused about fume hoods, there are posts on this forum about what type of fume hoods work well, or how to build one that will.

If you are confused about fans, there are also posts on this forum suggesting what fans might be used, or what methods to use fans not rated for corrosive gas.

If you are confused about why you should not be doing this inside your home, there are posts about that as well on this forum.

If you need to understand the safety gear better, there are posts about this as well on this forum

But if I were you, I would read Hoke first, so that you are better equipped and know the language to use when talking about the processes used to recover and refine precious metals. Then after that, you can search posts for the questions you have, and then post for further explanation or clarification on the particular thread you are referring to. In this way you will be far more successful than you would watching a youtube video, and attempting to do this inside your home.

I can promise you this, if you stay on this forum, if you do as has been suggested and learn what needs to be learned, you will understand why people have warned you, and used strong language in doing so.

Scott

 

[butcher]

Gettinthegold,

You are getting advice from the forums most knowledgeable, you should be very thankful, and count yourself lucky, that they care enough to try and help you, and are trying to keep you from harming yourself or others.

You are on the right track starting with Hoke's book. The safety thread and the topic there in "dealing with waste" will help you understand more in this area, basically we study most every thing we can, and we keep studying to learn more all of the time, this field of science there is an awful lot to it, I believe a man can spend his whole life studying it and never finish learning, you will find out more of what we are talking about as you get into this more, the problem with some of those you tube videos is they make every thing seem so easy, and simple.

Recovery and refining precious metals is a science and art that requires a lot of education, and like any science or skill, it is not something you will learn overnight, the more you learn and the more skills you gain the better and safer you will be.

You are in for a long journey in getting the gold, kind of like a trip around the world in a sail boat, it is not something you will do overnight, or from seeing some video, it takes a lot of preparation, education, and will also take time and practice to gain and hone your skills, so you need to figure you will be spending much time in learning and preparing yourself for this trip, you do not want to be caught out there in that big ocean in a storm not having what you need or without the understanding of what to do, or without being prepared, actually in a sense the education you gain is actually worth more than gold, and concentrating on that will help you in getting your gold, you do have a long journey ahead of you, enjoy preparing for that ride, for me this learning is the best part of getting the gold, without it I could not get that gold.

 

[MysticColby]

A lot of new people get scared away when faced with reality like this, kudo's for sticking with it. Also, people here can be harsh. It's needed, though, to prevent people from maiming themselves.
It 's a fun hobby, but I warn you now: electronic scrap has very little gold. unless you get it free (or nearly) and do a huge quantity, do not expect a profit, much less able to pay rent. If you are looking for money for e-scrap, boardsort.com is your way to go. It'd be hard to get more gold out than they are paying.

 

[Gold]

I do like his attitude !

 

[Harold_V]

I do like his attitude !

Depends. Having a firm conviction is good, but being stupid enough to jump in front of a locomotive when others have cautioned you it most likely would be fatal isn't a quality I respect.

Harold

 

[Gettinthegold]

I have yet to actually ambulate my body before a locomotive. One can only hope, though...

 

[Gettinthegold]

I've got another friend who works in an IT outsourcing company and he is going to start collecting all the old gear for me, when his clients upgrade their stuff (schools, businesses, etc). So we're talking switches, keyboards, computers, boards, etc. At least for the time being, I can't see any harm in collecting that stuff. I can even store it indoors!

Also, I'm thinking that if/when I do eventually start doing anything, I might start with silver before gold. From what I'm reading, a basic silver refinement setup seems far simpler, requires far fewer ingredients (at least for a simple run), doesn't involve boiling acids, and aside from the nitric acid, I already have everything else I would need, including the silver. I have about 60 of the old, silver 50¢ pieces. Also, if I screw something up, I'd rather lose a couple troy ounces of silver than of gold!!

We shall see what unfolds. Perhaps nothing. But as of now, there is still no speeding locomotive to be seen, so it remains a safe bet that I won't walk in front of one. ;-)

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

I've got another friend who works in an IT outsourcing company and he is going to start collecting all the old gear for me, when his clients upgrade their stuff (schools, businesses, etc). So we're talking switches, keyboards, computers, boards, etc. At least for the time being, I can't see any harm in collecting that stuff. I can even store it indoors!

That's great, next you might want to learn how to break them down into the different types of material, and learn how to process each different type. That is a learning process in itself.

Also, I'm thinking that if/when I do eventually start doing anything, I might start with silver before gold. From what I'm reading, a basic silver refinement setup seems far simpler, requires far fewer ingredients (at least for a simple run), doesn't involve boiling acids,

This is the problem, this is exactly the reason you have been advised to read Hoke before doing anything else. Not only are you terribly wrong about how "easy" it is to refine silver, but you are now talking about boiling acids. If you are dissolving values, you are not boiling acids. If you have values in solution, you are not boiling acids.

and aside from the nitric acid, I already have everything else I would need, including the silver. I have about 60 of the old, silver 50¢ pieces. Also, if I screw something up, I'd rather lose a couple troy ounces of silver than of gold!!

Why would you refine silver 50¢ pieces??? Most refineries will only pay you up to about 90% spot on refined silver. If your intention is to make money, you would be loosing money by refining your silver coins. Let me explain why.

If your silver coins are 1964 or older, they are 90% silver.

A 50¢ piece contains 36% of an ounce of silver in it.

Today's spot price for silver, as I write this, is 19.87

19.87 x .36 = 7.1532 but just to be generous lets say it's $7.20 per each of your 50¢ pieces.

60 x $7.20 = $432 but remember, when you go to sell your silver you are only going to get about 90% of spot. So ....

432 x .9 = 388.80

Now remember this is before the cost of refining, before the cost of equipment, before the investment of your time, effort and energy. So you would actually be loosing money. But even worse, you can sell the coins for more than spot prices on ebay.

If your intent is to make money, why are you proposing to refine 50¢ pieces when you can make more by selling them on ebay? And if you chose to take that same time, effort and energy with even less expensive equipment you could tone/colorize your silver coins or even paint them. There are several examples of this on ebay as well. Because of their artistic value, they command a premium even about the plain coin themselves.

We shall see what unfolds. Perhaps nothing. But as of now, there is still no speeding locomotive to be seen, so it remains a safe bet that I won't walk in front of one. ;-)

I feel embarrassed for you! Don't get me wrong, I think it's wonderful that you are so excited about this. I can follow your thought process, but it's just simply wrong. Personally I think Gold is far easier to refine than Silver, for me anyway, and I think many on the forum might agree. Silver is my main focus, it's my favorite of the noble metals, but if you are going to do it correctly, and plan on refining to high purity, you have a big surprise in store for you.

It's also a fair bet you are not reading Hoke if you believe silver is easier. Hoke talks about several methods of precipitating silver chloride, one including HCl (Hydrochloric Acid). Although it can be done in other ways, it's obvious this fact has escaped you.

Refining silver takes a bit of craftwork as well, after you do so several times you will understand what I mean. How warm of a solution do you want, what are the best ways to filter, how to make sure your silver is more pure with each step in your process you take, keeping your silver chloride wet and fluffy, and on and on and on.

Post to your hearts content about things you know, other people may find those very things useful. But be careful in posting about things you do not know, because other people that come after you, and read your posts, may get the wrong impression and be mislead. Case in point, you talk about boiling acids. There are only a few cases when boiling any acid might be acceptable, I want to make ti clear that this is not the norm, and unless a professional has told you, or written, specifically, that an acid or acid solution should be boiled, you should not be boiling any!

If you survive your posts, if you stay on this forum and you choose to read and learn before posting about things you have not learned yet, and then you come back and read your very first posts I think you are going to wish, fervently, that you did not post them. I believe someone recently deleted old posts that they made for this very reason, and as stated in one of their threads they were banned for the effort.

Scott

Edited:

If you think Silver is easy to refine, read this recent forum post. I'm sure this person thought much the same.

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=18909

 

[Gettinthegold]

I didn't say I would boil any acids! I didn't even say I would refine any silver. All I said was that, as I read stuff (and not just Hoke's book, but other stuff, too) I found that silver seemed to me to be a simpler process, involving fewer ingredients and that the ingredients involved I already owned (except for the nitric, which I'm not talking about buying). And not that it's simpler in a full-on refining setup, or simpler to make money from, but simpler and cheaper just to set up and try with, say, a few old 50¢ pieces, which I already have piles of. For the sake of trying. Not to make money off of. I'm sure that refining silver could get very complicated.

You mentioned the money I would lose, after the investment of my time and effort. Well I don't think any of you got anywhere without investing time and effort. So I just see that as the cost of one of the ingredients of the process. And dissolving a few 50¢ pieces won't make or break the bank.

It's not just Hoke's book that I'm reading. I get it that I would be far better off reading all of Hoke's book on recovering precious metals before I intend to recover any precious metals. Fair enough. But that doesn't stop me from reading other stuff during the time it takes me to read Hoke's book! I reckon it could take me quite a while!!

Anyway, I still really appreciate you writing back all that stuff. Believe me, it's stayed in my head. Really, it has.

I just want to point out once more: I haven't touched an acid yet, boiling or otherwise. I don't even own any. And as of a few posts ago, I have no immediate plans to get any. At this point, I'm just talking while I read stuff. And while I collect junk.

I can't only write about stuff that I already know. If that's all anyone around here ever did, then there'd only be a tutorial section! There would be no back-and-forth discussion and learning and exchanging of ideas! If people read what I write, and read what people think about what I write, isn't that the point? And if people read what I write, and what I wrote was dead wrong, but then don't read the 20 other posts of people telling me how I'm dead wrong, isn't that now on them?

Maybe I'll be embarrassed later. Maybe not. Maybe I'll be proud of what I learned. And maybe I'll be proud that other people can see that they can learn, too!

P.S. just curious...if they were banned for deleting old posts, then how did they write about it in a later thread???

 

[solar_plasma]

I think you have understood the most important points. And for the rest, just believe without much discussion, what they say, it will make sense to you later, like it did to me.

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

You mentioned the money I would lose, after the investment of my time and effort. Well I don't think any of you got anywhere without investing time and effort. So I just see that as the cost of one of the ingredients of the process. And dissolving a few 50¢ pieces won't make or break the bank.

In your previous posts it seemed to me your intent was to make money. The time, effort and energy I was talking about wasn't in learning it was in what you would put forth to refine the silver. You talked about 60 50¢ pieces, not one to test what you learn about refining silver.

It's not just Hoke's book that I'm reading. I get it that I would be far better off reading all of Hoke's book on recovering precious metals before I intend to recover any precious metals. Fair enough. But that doesn't stop me from reading other stuff during the time it takes me to read Hoke's book! I reckon it could take me quite a while!!

I assumed since you stated:

I downloaded that Hoke book.

And then:

I downloaded the book and printed it out. I'm in the process of binding it up and gluing a spine in.

That you next would be following other peoples advice, and reading the book you took the time to download, print, and bind.

Anyway, I still really appreciate you writing back all that stuff. Believe me, it's stayed in my head. Really, it has.

I'm glad everyone's effort is sticking in your head, I hope it serves you well, really I do.

I just want to point out once more: I haven't touched an acid yet, boiling or otherwise. I don't even own any. And as of a few posts ago, I have no immediate plans to get any. At this point, I'm just talking while I read stuff. And while I collect junk.

That's the right way of doing things, if I can though make this suggestion. Read Hoke before you read anything else, for this reason. Hoke will not only give you a good solid understanding of what we are all talking about, but also familiarize you with the language that we all use. In this way, you will be able to talk and explain yourself in a way that all of us who have read Hoke will understand, and then can respond. Even those professionals that have not read Hoke, use the same language, so the benefit to you will be that we will all be on the same page, understand your question and you in turn will understand the responses you receive.

I can't only write about stuff that I already know. If that's all anyone around here ever did, then there'd only be a tutorial section! There would be no back-and-forth discussion and learning and exchanging of ideas! If people read what I write, and read what people think about what I write, isn't that the point? And if people read what I write, and what I wrote was dead wrong, but then don't read the 20 other posts of people telling me how I'm dead wrong, isn't that now on them?

If you were learning about this subject in college, you would be given a book, given chapters to read, and then after you read it, it would be discussed in class and later you would be given a test. But how do you even know the right questions to ask if you haven't read the material? You don't even know the right questions to ask yet, so how can you expect to receive good answers? Back and forth discussion happens after you have read Hoke, and understand it. Then maybe further educate yourself by reading posts on this forum, and maybe you will want to check out the section on books to see what other books you might want to read.

You will notice that the most successful people who started from nothing on this forum, took responsibility for their own education. They took good solid advice to heart, and conducted themselves in a very specific way. I know you are trying, I can see that, but instead of posting anything about refining right now, you would be better served reading about it first.

Maybe I'll be embarrassed later. Maybe not. Maybe I'll be proud of what I learned. And maybe I'll be proud that other people can see that they can learn, too!

Anything you do to further your knowledge in this area, and effort you put forth, anything you are able to do as a result of educating yourself, or learning what others have to teach are all things you should be proud of. Learning about recovering and refining precious metals, and then being able to apply that knowledge is something you should be incredibly proud of. What I said was only meant to help you realize that instead of posting on what your plans are, before even reading about what you are talking about might not be the best use of a post. You would be better off not posting anything, but instead reading and then asking your questions only after attempting to search for them on this forum, and not finding them. If you notice, many people express how long they "lurked" on this forum before posting. These people are still here today, and some of them are attempting to help you with exactly what they have gone through themselves.

P.S. just curious...if they were banned for deleting old posts, then how did they write about it in a later thread???

I didn't say they wrote about it later in a thread, I said they were banned for deleting old posts in their thread. So imagine, they realized that their posts were embarrassing, so they deleted those posts but the thread still existed. When a moderator realized that they deleted their posts, which makes the entire conversation of the thread loose continuity and relevance, the person who deleted those posts was banned.

I hope this helps clarify what I said. I'm not going to post on this thread again, I hate feeling like I am beating a dead dog with a stick.

Scott

 

[rickbb]

If your going to collect e-waste from computers you'll find there is more gold than silver. Most of which is easy to get to, fingers on ram, PCI cards, CPU's, etc.

And the AP and Hcl/Cl process, while slower, is very easy, effective and is ideal for computer scrap where the gold is plated over copper.

While silver processes may seem simpler, anything dealing with Nitric is more complex just due to the higher level of safety precautions involved.

(Not to mention that some forms of silver you may encounter during recovery can be explosive.)

 

[butcher]

Gettinthegold,

I think silver is harder than gold, to refine, and nitric is a terribly dangerous acid, in some respects almost more dangerous than some of the acids I use in recovery and refining gold with (depending on the material and process used).

Nitric acid is part of that locomotive coming down that track; you defiantly do not want to be standing on the track in front of, or to be unaware of its dangers.

You seem to be having a hard time here on the forum, a rough start, but much of this you are bringing on yourself, We take safety very seriously, and by your comments (misguided ideas or assumptions) We can see you do not understand these dangers, or the seriousness involved when working with these acids and chemicals, and the reactions involved.

As you study more and gain more experience, you will gain more understanding, and you will see more how wrong your assumptions are at this point, and why there is such a fuss over some of these comments.


I am glad you are collecting material to process, as suggested you will be further ahead in studying how to mechanically separate and prepare the materials, which is a process of its own.

I also study everything I can, but also after several years of studying I can see so much misinformation and sometimes totally wrong things written around this subject of recovery and refining, many time authors who you would think would be very knowledgeable in this area really have little clue and will write things totally wrong or misleading, the more you learn the more you see this in the things you will study, when I first started I made a note book, I still have this note book, it really needs to be rewritten, as about half of those notes need to be revised and rewritten, since I wrote many of those notes from things I was studying I have learned where much of it was wrong, or that there were much better ways, or that many details of the information are missing, it will be a major chore to rewrite my notebook.

I am still studying Hokes book, I read a few pages on nights I am not too tired and when my eyes are still strong enough to make out the words on the page, even after years of reading her book I am still learning things from it.

I think you are doing the right thing by studying at this point, and collecting your scrap, and working on gaining a better understanding of what you are proposing of getting yourself into, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

As you study more and gain more experience, you will look back on these posts, and have a better understanding of what we are talking about, I read some of my first posts and see how much I have learned since making them.

 

[Gold]

I do like his attitude !

Depends. Having a firm conviction is good, but being stupid enough to jump in front of a locomotive when others have cautioned you it most likely would be fatal isn't a quality I respect.

Harold

lol I understand what you mean Harold. I was referring to the fact that most times when people are cautioned against doing something here on the forum we see an immediate out burst from them as far as a defensive attitude. I've learned that in order for someone to learn they have to be open to constructive criticism. I learned that lesson the hard way myself here on the forum. Our job here on the forum seems to have switched from that of educating people who have no knowledge of this field, to reeducating people who have learned what knowledge they have obtained from sources that are less that reliable.