What kind of nitrate is this?

[Rreyes097]

Here is the link to the video I seen. I seen a couple of his videos and by what he says he has a background in chemicals. He seems to know what he's doing. When I purchased the bag at Ace it said nitrates. I just can't remember what kind it said it was.

But it really doesn't matter I agree I'll follow what you guys say and I'll find some real nitrates. Possibly home Depot I'll get that stump out. Thanks for setting me on the right path

 

[eaglekeeper]

That is a nitrate that's in the video and that's what I use (mostly)....Where did you read that it's Blood meal?

By the way, that's Geo's video and he's a member here on the forum. I have never made nitric that way so I'm not sure what proportions you need.

 

[Shark]

Different nitrate. Following exact steps is useless if you can’t get your chemicals right. I’m not trying to be harsh just pointing out the need for understanding what you’re trying to do.

Now, as for the video, as mentioned, that is one of Geo’s videos. I have used that same method to process many grams, even pounds, of gold filled. It works when you follow it to the letter. Use the right chemicals, the right volumes, and get the heat within the right range. Just as important is not doing more than he suggests and he explains why to not do so in the video. Every detail is important when working with chemistry. Sometimes even the smallest mistake can become huge and may even be life threatening. Take a minute to breathe, rethink what you just watched or read, then read or watch it all over again. If in doubt ask before doing and someone will try to help you before making the mistakes.

As a side note, that method will leave you with a larger volume of waste, but will allow you to work if you can not get nitric.

 

[Ray Levi]

Www.xelexo.net, a Forum sponsor sells 67% nitric acid as well as sodium nitrate and all other gold refining chemicals.

 

[Rreyes097]

Different nitrate. Following exact steps is useless if you can’t get your chemicals right. I’m not trying to be harsh just pointing out the need for understanding what you’re trying to do.

Now, as for the video, as mentioned, that is one of Geo’s videos. I have used that same method to process many grams, even pounds, of gold filled. It works when you follow it to the letter. Use the right chemicals, the right volumes, and get the heat within the right range. Just as important is not doing more than he suggests and he explains why to not do so in the video. Every detail is important when working with chemistry. Sometimes even the smallest mistake can become huge and may even be life threatening. Take a minute to breathe, rethink what you just watched or read, then read or watch it all over again. If in doubt ask before doing and someone will try to help you before making the mistakes.

As a side note, that method will leave you with a larger volume of waste, but will allow you to work if you can not get nitric.

So I wasn't wrong after all? I knew I didn't see it wrong. I'm sure it may be more difficult or tedious. But it is something that works. So is it a nitrate correct? What kind?

 

[goldshark]

If you are really on a budget, you can collect some horse dung and urine, bury it in the ground, let it ferment, then leach the proceeds. This will give a very low grade nitrate, but if your time is not worth very much, you can spend a lot of time enriching it to usable nitrates. My time is too valuable to do this, and I figure either XOXOXO or Duda Diesel can do it on a commercial scale, for a lot cheaper than I can do it. I appreciate you wanting to make the Nitric on your own, but for all the energy you have put into it, monetarily, you would have been ahead by purchasing from one of the previously mentioned vendors.
The 2 bags in the represented pictures, are 2 different animals chemically. If you insist on making your own Nitric, start with the highest percent of nitrates you can get.

 

[Rreyes097]

Blood meal is worthless, it’s literally just dehydrated Cow’s blood. It’s not any form of nitrate. You have to find a product that specifically says it’s sodium nitrate or potassium nitrate. You could also try at some place that sells supplies for hydroponic growing, or a large nursery supply.

So I wasn't wrong! I just had the wrong bag? But I knew I was close.

 

[Rreyes097]

If you are really on a budget, you can collect some horse dung and urine, bury it in the ground, let it ferment, then leach the proceeds. This will give a very low grade nitrate, but if your time is not worth very much, you can spend a lot of time enriching it to usable nitrates. My time is too valuable to do this, and I figure either XOXOXO or Duda Diesel can do it on a commercial scale, for a lot cheaper than I can do it. I appreciate you wanting to make the Nitric on your own, but for all the energy you have put into it, monetarily, you would have been ahead by purchasing from one of the previously mentioned vendors.
The 2 bags in the represented pictures, are 2 different animals chemically. If you insist on making your own Nitric, start with the highest percent of nitrates you can get.

Yes but I can use nitrates for cheaper then buying the nitric. No? I would like to buy it pre made but I don't have enough money to do that.

 

[orvi]

Yeah I've been buying nitric for roughly 80 dollars a liter. And I can no longer afford it. So if I can get some nitric out of this bag or even the right one, since this one seems to be wrong, then I'll need to do that. I have lots of ic chips left. So it'll have to be nitrates or Clorox bleach/HCl.

80USD/L is way expensive. I have hard time believing you cannot source cheaper acid. The famous Duda company will do, altough still quite expensive.

I cannot truly say how inaccessible the nitrates are for you, as I live in EU, not US... But lots of OTC products could indeed be "refined" into some sort of pure nitrate or even nitric. I cannot purchase nitric on my own, because it is completely restricted here for regular persons to buy in any concentration. In the worst times, I used nitrates instead - and they are actually not so hard to find, if one is creative and proactive.

Best source was the ammonium nitrate fertilizer - 5 kg for 3-4 euros. Easy as that. Then I found chemical suppliers which sell chemicals if you provide ID. I am sure there are some suppliers also in US, selling to regular persons. Chemicals for example related with photography, cyanotype stuff, cleaning supplies etc. They could be able to get you chemicals you want.

PS: if you going to use bleach, use some with higher active Cl2 content, like TCCA or calcium hypochlorite to generate chlorine off of it. Regular bleach is too diluted to be used sanely.

 

[Rreyes097]

80USD/L is way expensive. I have hard time believing you cannot source cheaper acid. The famous Duda company will do, altough still quite expensive.

I cannot truly say how inaccessible the nitrates are for you, as I live in EU, not US... But lots of OTC products could indeed be "refined" into some sort of pure nitrate or even nitric. I cannot purchase nitric on my own, because it is completely restricted here for regular persons to buy in any concentration. In the worst times, I used nitrates instead - and they are actually not so hard to find, if one is creative and proactive.

Best source was the ammonium nitrate fertilizer - 5 kg for 3-4 euros. Easy as that. Then I found chemical suppliers which sell chemicals if you provide ID. I am sure there are some suppliers also in US, selling to regular persons. Chemicals for example related with photography, cyanotype stuff, cleaning supplies etc. They could be able to get you chemicals you want.

PS: if you going to use bleach, use some with higher active Cl2 content, like TCCA or calcium hypochlorite to generate chlorine off of it. Regular bleach is too diluted to be used sanely.

The nitrates aren't hard to acquire but it seems to me I just got the wrong bag.

 

[Yggdrasil]

So I wasn't wrong! I just had the wrong bag? But I knew I was close.

Shit man, you got to stop.
Do you even realize how dangerous that comment is?

 

[Rreyes097]

Shit man, you got to stop.
Do you even realize how dangerous that comment is?

Well apparently I don't since I just wrote it. So instead of cussing at me, please feel free to elaborate.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Well apparently I don't since I just wrote it. So instead of cussing at me, please feel free to elaborate.

I won’t. I NEED you to read your own comment as many times as is needed to find out.

 

[kurtak]

I would like to buy it pre made but I don't have enough money to do that.

Like many things if you buy in bulk it is cheaper

Example; - if you go to duda diesel (they are a chem supply company) & buy a 950ml bottle of their 67% nitic it is $60.43 - (plus shipping I assume) - so about $60/liter

If you buy their 2.5 liter bottle 67% nitric it is $101.69 - so about $40/liter

If you buy a case of 4) - 2.5 liter bottles 67% nitric (so 10 liters) it is $149.95 - so about $15/liter

that is the price for the acid - there will be a shipping charge on top of the

10 liters of 67% will dissolve (about) 20 pounds of gold or silver - or (about) 5 pounds of copper

When I was full time refining I bought my 67% nitric 60 liter SS kegs which cost me (about) $1.75/liter - (there was a $150 deposit on the SS keg but get that back when the keg is returned)

200 liter SS drum of 53% nitric was (about) 40 cents per liter --- $250 deposit on the drum

How did I get the money to make my first bulk nitric buy (& thereby get my nitic dirt cheap) --- sold a truck load of scrap iron/aluminum/copper/brass to the scrap yard

That first bulk nitric buy (60 liter keg) set me on the road to a for profit PM refining business for 10 years

For what it is worth

Kurt

 

[Rreyes097]

Like many things if you buy in bulk it is cheaper

Example; - if you go to duda diesel (they are a chem supply company) & buy a 950ml bottle of their 67% nitic it is $60.43 - (plus shipping I assume) - so about $60/liter

If you buy their 2.5 liter bottle 67% nitric it is $101.69 - so about $40/liter

If you buy a case of 4) - 2.5 liter bottles 67% nitric (so 10 liters) it is $149.95 - so about $15/liter

that is the price for the acid - there will be a shipping charge on top of the

10 liters of 67% will dissolve (about) 20 pounds of gold or silver - or (about) 5 pounds of copper

When I was full time refining I bought my 67% nitric 60 liter SS kegs which cost me (about) $1.75/liter - (there was a $150 deposit on the SS keg but get that back when the keg is returned)

200 liter SS drum of 53% nitric was (about) 40 cents per liter --- $250 deposit on the drum

How did I get the money to make my first bulk nitric buy (& thereby get my nitic dirt cheap) --- sold a truck load of scrap iron/aluminum/copper/brass to the scrap yard

That first bulk nitric buy (60 liter keg) set me on the road to a for profit PM refining business for 10 years

For what it is worth

Kurt

Sound like a success story! And those are always worth a lot. Thanks for the info.

 

[Rreyes097]

I won’t. I NEED you to read your own comment as many times as is needed to find out.

Yggdrasil, I still have no idea what you mean. Nor do I have the time to figure out your riddle. If it is indeed dangerous as you suspect it to be then wouldn't the smart thing be to convey your interpretation and your misgivings about what I said?
Look, for a long time I've allowed you to respond to my threads with thinly veiled contempt at my lack of formal training. But your many responses have conveyed your dislike of me and people like me. I know it must be frustrating to have people just jump on here and demand answers time and time again. For I was or am in many ways one of those people. But I do my best to read all I can find before I ask the forum. I have to bring this up because I didn't want to sound like another rookie refiner that has just watched a few YouTube videos and now demanding answers. Plus you being a moderator I also don't want to say too much and get kicked off. But I must speak how I feel. If you don't for some reason like me then don't respond. It seems like most of the time your responses are negative and condescending anyway. You don't need to help me if you feel this way. As a moderator I feel that you shouldn't be talking to people like they are beneath you. I apologize to the forum for this but I'm just done with his negative attitude and the he's some how superior then me and others. I've never been rude or cussed at anyone here. So if anyone feels like I'm over reacting then I don't expect your help either. For I'm a grown man that's doing his best to learn stuff that many of you have mastered years ago. But I won't be talked down to. That's all I have to say. I'll see if I'm still a member here tomorrow. Good night.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Yggdrasil, I still have no idea what you mean. Nor do I have the time to figure out your riddle. If it is indeed dangerous as you suspect it to be then wouldn't the smart thing be to convey your interpretation and your misgivings about what I said?
Look, for a long time I've allowed you to respond to my threads with thinly veiled contempt at my lack of formal training. But your many responses have conveyed your dislike of me and people like me. I know it must be frustrating to have people just jump on here and demand answers time and time again. For I was or am in many ways one of those people. But I do my best to read all I can find before I ask the forum. I have to bring this up because I didn't want to sound like another rookie refiner that has just watched a few YouTube videos and now demanding answers. Plus you being a moderator I also don't want to say too much and get kicked off. But I must speak how I feel. If you don't for some reason like me then don't respond. It seems like most of the time your responses are negative and condescending anyway. You don't need to help me if you feel this way. As a moderator I feel that you shouldn't be talking to people like they are beneath you. I apologize to the forum for this but I'm just done with his negative attitude and the he's some how superior then me and others. I've never been rude or cussed at anyone here. So if anyone feels like I'm over reacting then I don't expect your help either. For I'm a grown man that's doing his best to learn stuff that many of you have mastered years ago. But I won't be talked down to. That's all I have to say. I'll see if I'm still a member here tomorrow. Good night.

I will elaborate more in an PM at a later stage.
I’m hospitalised for the moment so neither the energy nor the mood is there to tackle this right now.

 

[Shark]

What is being referred to is your picking up the wrong bag. You bought that and did not realize you picked up the wrong stuff. Ok, is that so bad? Only in that you didn’t use it, as you did not know how the stuff would react with your materials. Good thing it wasn’t gun powder, and as it is not you can at least use it on Roses for some pretty flowers, like I do.

If you look at the video image you posted , it clearly shows the proper package you need. This seemingly small mistake is costly, you now get to make another trip, time consuming, you have now used a day or more trying to figure out this mistake and wasted a trip to shop for it. This all things that several people have hinted at hoping you would spot all this on your own. At least I learn better at times this way. I kind of assumed others did also.

At this point, relax a bit, maybe get a coffee or cold drink, watch the video again. Pay close attention to the things you missed the first few times. There is not much I can add to the video as I learned the method from that video myself. One thing I might add is if you have any silver in your material, go ahead and start learning how to deal with silver chloride now as well.

Theses “make do” processes all come at some cost. Sometimes they require more filtering, or it may need more heat or additional chemicals to aid in the conversion process. Doing it chemically correct the first time becomes easier and less costly at times because of all the little extras required.

Take another look at the video or a dozen looks if that’s what it takes. Relax and try to enjoy what you’re learning. It is always easier when we enjoy it.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Happy new year everyone.

I have received a bit of attention due to my Hospital comment here.
That was not the plan so ease things down, I'm quite fine and home now,
just had an infections that managed to overcome me for a while.
So lets get back to what counts, refining and family, not necessarily in that order