Processing SilverPlate With H2O Cell

[Sancho_n_Pedro]

So, I connected to an auction last week and saw what looked like an antique grain grinder, and was going to sell for £8, I bid and got it for £9. The grinder looks to need a bit of a repair before I can use it, but buried under the other junk items were two large ladles. At first glace they looked stainless steel (probably why nobody was interested), but they were actually plated. They're both "chipped" or "pitted" so won't get used in our house, but are ideal candidates for my H2O cell (although not sure I can fit the head into it, might look at a wider "plastic" vessel to do that?).

The plating on these looks really thick as seen in the 3rd pic (circled where it has a chip), and I'd estimate the head about 10cm x 8cm with the length about 30cm. I recon these will give as much silver alone as what I have collected from the previous batch of forks, spoon, knives, going by the gap in the plate that exposes the base metal.

I'll weigh all the black powder once it's dried to show what has been gained from these, and will keep the weight separate from that of the previous post so I can see if my estimates are anywhere close... Will keep you guys posted on the progress, as I am just waiting on the other lot drying off.

 

[blackcatlettuce]

New guy here. I've also made one of these cells, with a stainless steel cathode. Took a beaker of water and saturated it with table salt (NaCl). I know this will probably produce silver chloride, and I'm ready for that with some lye and sugar, but that's down the road a bit.

I ended up running two cells with the same power source at the same time. Used a variable voltage & amperage transformer to set it to about 2.5V and let it run for a good 5 minutes. Had trouble stripping it, so I bumped it up to 6V. Brushed off the blackish silver with a good stiff brush into a rinse bucket. I repeated this cycle until the flatware had no more black silver on it, then tossed it in a bucket that I'll put in my stock pot later.

Ran through a few pieces of flatware and ended up with this for cells. The yellow stuff settles down to the bottom, and I have a bright blue substance floating on the top. Once it settles further, there will be more a pronounced difference, but this is what I have right now. As I'm reading through this, it sounds like everyone is letting it sit on the power for an hour or more. What's the reasoning behind this? Any comments would be helpful.

Also, any idea what kind of residues these are? I assume they are base metals that were also stripped off, but I don't know which ones. I'm guessing that the yellow is a nickel.

 

[Yggdrasil]

The H2O cell is supposed to be run without salt as far as I know.
There was a discussion here a few years back. Search the forum for H2O cell.

 

[Shark]

Read this entire thread, from the first page. No salt needed as the use of tap water has enough properties to make the cell work. It leaves a very dirty solution of silver that may not convert well with sugar and lye.

 

[blackcatlettuce]

Read this entire thread, from the first page. No salt needed as the use of tap water has enough properties to make the cell work. It leaves a very dirty solution of silver that may not convert well with sugar and lye.

What properties are we exactly looking for? Chlorinated water?

 

[Shark]

Just plain tap water. Pure water is less conductive and most distilled water is as well. Most tap waters are treated with a variety of chemicals that will do the job just fine. The electricity will do the job if the water will conduct well enough. This lead myself to follow the original OP to use plated items as both the cathode and anode. It is all fairly well explained as the additional posts progress. It is not a perfect method but works pretty well for those with minimal starting materials.

What you end up with is a mixture or soup of silver in various forms which is why I use the sulfuric and iron method of recovery to silver metal. It seems to reduce the losses over lye and sugar.

 

[BlackLabel]

I ended up running two cells with the same power source at the same time.

Hi blackcatlettuce,

You can't run two cells parallel properly.
The current will always prefer the more conductive path.

 

[blackcatlettuce]

Hi blackcatlettuce,

You can't run two cells parallel properly.
The current will always prefer the more conductive path.

Thank you for this, I was noticing that one cell was stripping much faster than the other, I was just too lazy to swap the positive electrode over to another side and check it out.

 

[snail]

Cells will run in series, just need higher voltages.

 

[rickbb]

The salt is not needed, it just makes the water a bit more conductive, any mineral will do that which is why plain tap water works.

It won't make silver chloride either, the stripping cell does not dissolve the silver, it simply makes the silver plate flake off the part. It stays as a metal in the cell and is not converted to some other form of silver.

You are basically reverse electroplating, using current to make the metal ions lose their bonding connections and be "pushed", (for lack of a better word), away from the part you are de-plating. You will have all kinds of metals de-plated, whatever the part is made of, copper, steel, white, (pot), metal, etc. along with the silver. Leave it too long and you will have more base metal than silver.

The trick is to stop at the point where the silver is removed before much base metal is removed. This will require some trial and error on your part as no one has the exact same cell or source parts to de-plate.

Whatever you recover when finished you will have to wash and clean well, then refine to get the silver pure. Which is altogether a different ball game.

 

[blackcatlettuce]

The salt is not needed, it just makes the water a bit more conductive, any mineral will do that which is why plain tap water works.

It won't make silver chloride either, the stripping cell does not dissolve the silver, it simply makes the silver plate flake off the part. It stays as a metal in the cell and is not converted to some other form of silver.

You are basically reverse electroplating, using current to make the metal ions lose their bonding connections and be "pushed", (for lack of a better word), away from the part you are de-plating. You will have all kinds of metals de-plated, whatever the part is made of, copper, steel, white, (pot), metal, etc. along with the silver. Leave it too long and you will have more base metal than silver.

The trick is to stop at the point where the silver is removed before much base metal is removed. This will require some trial and error on your part as no one has the exact same cell or source parts to de-plate.

Whatever you recover when finished you will have to wash and clean well, then refine to get the silver pure. Which is altogether a different ball game.

Thanks, this is going to help my refining and recovery processes a lot. I was sure that I would have to take the chlorine out of the silver. Might just try nitric and cementing it out on copper now, I'm not sure.

 

[rickbb]

All you have to do with what you get from the cell is wash it good, (several times), in hot water. If you get the current and time right it will be mostly the silver plating. You could just melt that as is, it will be whatever purity the plating was, usually sterling, 92.5% silver.

Putting that washed flake in nitric will dissolve it, cementing it back out with copper will retrieve most, (not all), of the silver. If you do that right you can get the purity up to the high 99% range. Their other methods that work well too, all require you to do it right.

Just depends on what your intentions are with the recovered silver.

 

[jphayesjr]

So, I connected to an auction last week and saw what looked like an antique grain grinder, and was going to sell for £8, I bid and got it for £9. The grinder looks to need a bit of a repair before I can use it, but buried under the other junk items were two large ladles. At first glace they looked stainless steel (probably why nobody was interested), but they were actually plated. They're both "chipped" or "pitted" so won't get used in our house, but are ideal candidates for my H2O cell (although not sure I can fit the head into it, might look at a wider "plastic" vessel to do that?).

The plating on these looks really thick as seen in the 3rd pic (circled where it has a chip), and I'd estimate the head about 10cm x 8cm with the length about 30cm. I recon these will give as much silver alone as what I have collected from the previous batch of forks, spoon, knives, going by the gap in the plate that exposes the base metal.

I'll weigh all the black powder once it's dried to show what has been gained from these, and will keep the weight separate from that of the previous post so I can see if my estimates are anywhere close... Will keep you guys posted on the progress, as I am just waiting on the other lot drying off.

As you may know, antique Sheffield Plate was made by thermally fusing thin layers of silver sheet to a base metal object. When you find pieces in fairly knackered shape that collectors avoid, you may snap them up at a bargain. I understand you are keen on harvesting the silver, and that's fine. But also consider that the antique silver and the antique base metal, especially nickel, may also contain significant percentages of platinum group metals, so much that they're richer than commercially produced ores. That will be especially true for items produced before the 1820s, the era when the chemist Wollaston first discovered palladium, rhodium, and practical ways to work at tempering platinum to make it more ductile, leading to it's use in manufacturing. That's been my experience, and if that works out for you, I hope you find all you wish. Keep in mind that old gold plate and solid gold is also likely to have similar composition, plus significant silver.

 

[Sancho_n_Pedro]

As you may know, antique Sheffield Plate was made by thermally fusing thin layers of silver sheet to a base metal object. When you find pieces in fairly knackered shape that collectors avoid, you may snap them up at a bargain. I understand you are keen on harvesting the silver, and that's fine. But also consider that the antique silver and the antique base metal, especially nickel, may also contain significant percentages of platinum group metals, so much that they're richer than commercially produced ores. That will be especially true for items produced before the 1820s, the era when the chemist Wollaston first discovered palladium, rhodium, and practical ways to work at tempering platinum to make it more ductile, leading to it's use in manufacturing. That's been my experience, and if that works out for you, I hope you find all you wish. Keep in mind that old gold plate and solid gold is also likely to have similar composition, plus significant silver.

That is very interesting to hear. I was planning to do some experimentation with the other de-plated items, so thin information is very well received.

 

[Sancho_n_Pedro]

All you have to do with what you get from the cell is wash it good, (several times), in hot water. If you get the current and time right it will be mostly the silver plating. You could just melt that as is, it will be whatever purity the plating was, usually sterling, 92.5% silver.

Putting that washed flake in nitric will dissolve it, cementing it back out with copper will retrieve most, (not all), of the silver. If you do that right you can get the purity up to the high 99% range. Their other methods that work well too, all require you to do it right.

Just depends on what your intentions are with the recovered silver.

Hadn't got any real thought on what to do, as I don't have a great deal of it right now, so just storing it until there is a decent amount (maybe a few kilos).

 

[scrappyjoe]

hello people . thanks for the info. what a great thread. newbie here. i too have slowly amassed boxes of holloware and have been reluctant to turn it in as brass or copper . hoping for cure ! i'm going to have to read over it again. and again , and again ....

please keep the tread alive... i'm sure someones been up to something new .

i'm hoping someones come up with something that is actually profitable. has anyone had any luck with the platinum group as was suggested at the end of this tread?

thanks

joe

 

[Yggdrasil]

hello people . thanks for the info. what a great thread. newbie here. i too have slowly amassed boxes of holloware and have been reluctant to turn it in as brass or copper . hoping for cure ! i'm going to have to read over it again. and again , and again ....

please keep the tread alive... i'm sure someones been up to something new .

i'm hoping someones come up with something that is actually profitable. has anyone had any luck with the platinum group as was suggested at the end of this tread?

thanks

joe

It is not PGM per se.
But some of the really old Silver may contain a bit, since the alloys aren't cleaned up like today.

 

[scrappyjoe]

i realize that, but it would be nice to get out a few bonus grams of something .

actually i'm just dreaming, because i havn't really started anything yet.

just starting to read up on the possibility of iodine leaching ...

after reading posts spanning 12 years on removing silver plate on this forum , does anyone have a suggestion as to what may be the best and most economical way for a newbie to start?

which avenue should i take ?

thanks

 

[galenrog]

There are several chemical methods. None are cost effective.

The water cell can achieve 90-95% purity should any of the underlying metal follow the silver, which is common. Unless electrical power is free, it is still not economical.

Mechanical separation, primarily using abrasives, require separation of the abrasive media from the now powdered silver. To minimize losses, this should be done in a sanding box used for sand blasting. Because the separation from abrasive media is typically done chemically, it is also uneconomical.

If you value your time, the economics are far worse.

Time for more coffee.

 

[MooseMan]

The water cell can achieve 90-95% purity should any of the underlying metal follow the silver, which is common. Unless electrical power is free, it is still not economical.

Your words above have just triggered me galenrog thank you!

It was suggested to me by another of you wise ones, in a thread I posted about some large plated tubing I have, that I could use the H2O Silver cell.
I did some research across the forum and got an understanding of it, then mentally bookmarked it to do when I have time.

What I didn't really consider, and I can't quite believe it didn't register in my brain, is that I could use solar power to run the cell!!! Doh!

I have a 120w CIGS panel setup feeding 4x 22ah batteries (Ex UPS system) in parallel, with an inline charge controller that can provide 6/12/24v switched output.
So all is have to do is place a DC/DC device after that to control amps, and I have the "Free electrical power" yes?