50 kilos gold bars x day from Peru

[miningperu]

I got a call 2 weeks ago from a West African living in Jamaica just the other day. The phone call registered Reno Nevada. After telling him I recognized the accent, then argued that he wasn't in the United States, but in a West African Nation he admitted he was in Jamaica, the person who got on the phone after him did have a very strong Jamaican accent. I ended up talking to them and explaining that I could make them good money if they looked for the type of scrap I told them to look for, then send it to me and I would pay them for it.

I'll do the same for you.

You see, I know for a fact because I owned a business called US Closeouts that dealt in international trade. I have literally turned down hundreds and hundreds of scams, just like this one, from all over the world. Scam artists are not just in West Africa, they are anywhere they can make a phone call from, that doesn't cost them a lot of money. Matter of fact, some of the scams are pulled to get minutes for their cell phones so they can talk with you.

I have posted about this exact type of transaction before. I don't know what lead you to believe that people carry around suitcases of money to buy kilo's of gold with, but it's illegal here in the United States to take anything more than $10,000 worth in cash out of the country. You have watched too many movies. Anything more is declared and then you are prevented from taking it out of the country anyway. Things are not done that way in the real world.

You would first sign an NCNDA which would prevent the buyer from negotiating directly with the miners, and forced to negotiate with you, I assume you are the person pretending to be a broker, right?

After the NCNDA is signed, then legitimate documentation is exchanged, a letter of intent to purchase, and a letter of intent to sell. After this, the buyer contacts their trade bank to set up either a wire transfer, or a letter of credit to be paid at the time of inspection. The reason I know you are not offering a real deal is because you never mentioned any banking instruments, and you never mentioned wire transfer.

The banks, the trade bank that belongs to the people selling the gold, and the trade bank of the buyer, then exchange banking information and set up communication between both. When the gold is inspected by a third party, assayed and tested, then the bank enacts the wire transfer after they received the proper documentation. Proper documentation means it's been loaded onto a ship, there is shipping information, insurance has been purchase to cover force majeure or theft, the dock supervisor has signed off on the ship as being safe to transport goods, government documents allowing the gold to leave the country, state department documents to ensure you are not dealing with a terrorist entity.

I can go on and on, point is that no money would exchange hands until either the ship has left the dock, or the ship has arrived at a port of entry.

Documents from the Peruvian Government would be required as proof the gold wasn't stolen, by our customs officials as it entered our country.

You make mention of none of this information. What you are talking about amounts to a shady transaction done in an illegal manor that will probably either end up with the gold being fake or less than promised, someone stealing the gold, or something worse. I cannot see in any way how this transaction could be legitimate. It goes against all common sense to even entertain this as being a real transaction.

If you want payment for your gold right away, bring it here to the United States, if you are real, and your gold is real, and it assays real, I will personally make sure you are paid within 24 hours. But I can only do that if you bring your gold to the United States. I will even agree to a specific price, on assay of the gold, agreed before you even bring your gold here. If you are real, honest, and truly want to sell this gold to someone in the United States, that is the only real way you can make it happen.

Otherwise, I think this is another scam, and there is no truth to anything you are saying. The only other thing I might believe is that you have never attempted to transact a deal of this nature, and have no clue at all what you are talking about.

Scott

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We have no financial capacity, at this time, to sell in port (FOB) 50 kilos of gold bars or CIF. So we need to receive immediate payment when we deliver the gold in the office of the mine. Gold bars can be certified for you, in our own foundry, for any world class laboratory (SGS or ALS) who wants to hire you. After six months, if we can deliver FOB port. And in a year we can deliver right to your own CIF refinery, based on an annual contract.

 

[miningperu]

I looks to me that this person watched the micro miners clips on youtube and came up with a way to get money from it. I also watched these clips and the micro miners work and live in horrible conditions and are paid by the gold buyers ( read pirates) pennies a day.

If you are a gold buyer then shame on you, if you are a land leasor then you should be put to working extracting your own gold. If you are just a scammer with an idea then leave here.

I would like to explain in more detail the proposed gold business. We deliver the gold in the city of Juliaca, Peru. Payment is immediate upon delivery. Gold is owned by independent miners. They require immediate payment. Is your daily work. It's like a salary for them. Microentrepreneurs miners are operating with official permission. They can not send the gold to refineries. They can not wait two days to get paid. They are not like mining companies. They have joined only to melt the gold and get a better buyer. When each sold individually receive 4% of the international price in the local market. They want to have a better chance.

 

[its-all-a-lie]

Get on a plane and bring the gold to America, this is the only way anyone here will deal with you, period.

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

Hahaha,

This guy is just a scam artist, it doesn't make any sense, these types of deals are not transacted this way, the amount of money we are talking about isn't something that is just thrown about in the way he so casually is. This isn't a real deal. Just simply put, to avoid understanding this wrong, lets just generalize what a scam artist is, and assume this is what the poster is. Under no conditions, ever, would it be smart to deal in the country of Puru as a US Citizen.

I once transacted a deal in a South American country. Literally the bank wouldn't release the documents into my hand unless I took prior precautions. I had to hire off duty policia and hire a helicopter to fly rooftop to rooftop from bank to bank. The company he is suggesting to hire, does exactly this. They act as armed security while you are transacting your deal. That is how bad things are in Puru, and how likely that violence will occur directly after the transaction.

There is nothing about this deal that sounds real to me. I dealt in international trade for years, and I have heard stories very similar to this, hundreds of times over. It doesn't matter even if the gold is real, this is not how these deals are operated, and if the gold was real there is a plan to get it back from you before you leave the country, I can promise you that.

The only way a deal can be done in the way this guy is suggesting, is if he flew here, with the gold bar, and it was assayed by a independent entity with an agreement on purchase price to be determined after assay. The bar would have to be drilled clean through or better yet melting in it's entirety then pin sampled. However it's done the gold needs to be verified. Companies that inspect goods, do so with portable equipment, like an XRF scanner. Scanning the bar might reveal 90% gold, but will only tell you what the metal is on the surface, not under what could be a guilded piece of lead.

You can tear this proposed deal apart left to right, up and down, and in every one of the 11 other realities string theory claims exist, and you still come up with red flags and deep feelings of "this is a scam!".

Scott

 

[miningperu]

Peru exported gold bars for over 100 years. the major international mining companies operating in Peru. The 2012 was exported over 10,000 million gold. Juliaca, is one of the centers of Peru's mining production. I understand the doubts generated by my proposal. I understand your distrust. I just wanted to have some ideas to develop this project. The'm sorry if I bothered to members. But it has served me well for my way in this market.

thanks for your tips and alerts. I will always be attentive to any questions or comments.

 

[srlaulis]

I feel like our forum is tainted with this guy as a member. I would personally like to see him removed. It's feels like we are sleeping with the enemy here. Nothing about what this guy has said makes sense or feels right.

 

[Woodworker1997]

Hahaha,


I once transacted a deal in a South American country. Literally the bank wouldn't release the documents into my hand unless I took prior precautions. I had to hire off duty policia and hire a helicopter to fly rooftop to rooftop from bank to bank. The company he is suggesting to hire, does exactly this. They act as armed security while you are transacting your deal. That is how bad things are in Puru, and how likely that violence will occur directly after the transact

Scott

Scott.. it sounds like you have been living a Very interesting life! Almost 007-ish!

Would love to hear more.

Derek

 

[Jimmy]

This is probably legit. I spent a lot of time in that area and what he says it correct.

 

[Palladium]

There is a little truth even in a lie! That's why people believe lies.

 

[jimdoc]

This is probably legit. I spent a lot of time in that area and what he says it correct.

Well then, go for it. Let us know how you make out.

Jim

How did you pick this thread for your second comment, minutes after joining the forum?

 

[Jimmy]

Bad luck I suppose.

 

[kclaptopsrepair]

I may have been born at night, but, it wasn't last night.
You will need to get up earlier in the morning if you think you can fool the members here.
Why would you discount your gold to us when you can get spot or above elsewhere?

I would like to explain in more detail the proposed gold business. We deliver the gold in the city of Juliaca, Peru. Payment is immediate upon delivery. Gold is owned by independent miners. They require immediate payment. Is your daily work. It's like a salary for them. Microentrepreneurs miners are operating with official permission. They can not send the gold to refineries. They can not wait two days to get paid. They are not like mining companies. They have joined only to melt the gold and get a better buyer. When each sold individually receive 4% of the international price in the local market. They want to have a better chance.

We'll pay by cash - one dollar bills only - also I can't even wait two minutes 'till you guys will count all bills - I'm not like bank. Quick trade - from hand to hand.
All bills are owned by independent payers. They got official permission to use all bills they will have. They have joined only to pay for that gold and get a better chance.
Or we can pay by check - it's up to you - same rules - from hand to hand.

 

[srlaulis]

LOL Jimdoc! That is exactly what went through my mind. :lol:

 

[Jimmy]

I know it sounds strange but this sort of business happens all the time in Peru. I used to work there and sold my concentrate to guys who did just this. I originally tried to have someone do the extraction and paid them per ton but you can imagine how that went. It was just easier to sell the concentrate. But you can buy just about any amount that your heart desires there. The 2 companies that he named in the first post are companies similar to Brinks in the states. They provide bonded transportation security. One of the best places to buy is the plaza in front of the Central Bank. I forgot the name of the place. But on any day there are people selling gold.
I would never buy ingots or bars. Only foil. It is very hard to put fillers in foil. Most of the sellers will provide you with gram scales, Graduated flasks and nitric acid for you to test density and purity.
Im not saying to buy from the guy but keep an open mind.
You can generally get even better discounts on the gold. Ive seen up to 10% off of spot. But depends on the day and price.

 

[Anonymous]

I know it sounds strange but this sort of business happens all the time in Peru. I used to work there and sold my concentrate to guys who did just this. I originally tried to have someone do the extraction and paid them per ton but you can imagine how that went. It was just easier to sell the concentrate. But you can buy just about any amount that your heart desires there. The 2 companies that he named in the first post are companies similar to Brinks in the states. They provide bonded transportation security. One of the best places to buy is the plaza in front of the Central Bank. I forgot the name of the place. But on any day there are people selling gold.
I would never buy ingots or bars. Only foil. It is very hard to put fillers in foil. Most of the sellers will provide you with gram scales, Graduated flasks and nitric acid for you to test density and purity.
Im not saying to buy from the guy but keep an open mind.
You can generally get even better discounts on the gold. Ive seen up to 10% off of spot. But depends on the day and price.

Buy some, then upload images and tell us the results.

Gold?.... If I know I can get $1,000 for it, why would I sell it for $600 - $850?

Kevin

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

Hahaha,


I once transacted a deal in a South American country. Literally the bank wouldn't release the documents into my hand unless I took prior precautions. I had to hire off duty policia and hire a helicopter to fly rooftop to rooftop from bank to bank. The company he is suggesting to hire, does exactly this. They act as armed security while you are transacting your deal. That is how bad things are in Puru, and how likely that violence will occur directly after the transact

Scott

Scott.. it sounds like you have been living a Very interesting life! Almost 007-ish!

Would love to hear more.

Derek

Not really 007 at all, I did business through the state department to sell 197 Ford Pickups to the Iraq Government right after we invaded. You want to talk about a weird business transaction? First, you couldn't fly into the country of Iraq, so I went to Jordan first, since we have a free trade agreement with Jordan, this was the country I was bringing the trucks into and then have them shipped up to Iraq. Try dealing with a new Iraqi government, the kingdom of Jordan, the US State Department all at the same time.

It's common practice in a lot of countries that have less than desirable security or police force. In those cases, the company they are suggesting is one of those companies that are hired to protect people who are conducting business in those countries where they would be putting their lives at risk, just going into areas that tourists do not traditional go. He mentioned this company as being able to provide security:http://www.prosegur.com/COMEN/ProsegurinSinGapore/index.htm

Although I never have used that particular company I have used security before. Imagine, you are transporting a document that cannot be sent bank to bank electronically. And that one single document represents futures in sugar worth 12,500 metric tons per month, per 3 years, of icumsa 45 sugar. HUGE in Brazil. That one single document is worth at the very least 67,000,000 USD. That's at $150 per metric ton x 12,500 metric tons x 12 months in a year x 3 years so it would look like 12,500 x 12 x 3 = 67+ Million. This is also the reason why these types of transactions have to be passed through the state department first to ensure those you are doing business with are not crooked or terrorists. That one document represents that much money, and these certificates are traded for goods, like weapons etc. It's not like in the movies where those people are carrying berrabonds, that's really made up. But it's very similar, a few pieces of paper are worth 67 million dollars and can be easily transported, traded, etc.

Thus the reason for the helicopter, roof top to roof top, blah blah blah. The bank that held the certificate was not a trade bank, and didn't have established communications with a trade bank, so no wire confirmation or inspection could take place because the document had to reside with a world trade bank. To get the document their, from Sao Paulo Brazil to Rio Brazil you don't want to drive it. Too many criminals and arbitrary road blocks set up by people, and it would be nothing for them to kill you and roll you into a ditch, specially for a document worth 67 mil.

So while it might sound 007-ish, it really just simply amounts to conducting the transaction so that you don't get literally, killed. This guy is suggesting using one of those companies so that we feel his deal is legit.

What he has not stated is that it would be done at a secure bank, which seems exceedingly odd to me. Or at the least, at an assay office, or anywhere that this gold could reside that was safe and secure. Even within the United States we use armored cars to transport gold. He makes no mention of any of these things, avoids real questions that should be answered, and the list goes on and on.

This deal is not legit, you cannot conduct it unless you belong to a major trade bank, and they are willing to take the risks of a secured, insured letter of credit. SGS does do inspecting, but like I posted before they do not do destructive testing which would include drilling the bar, melting it, etc. So it could be just gold clad.

I have posted on this before, many times. I conducted international trade deals for over 10 years. Whoever this person is knows just enough about international trade to drop the obvious words and companies that everyone uses to conduct real transactions. But he's missing the most important key parts of this type of transaction, and he doesn't even know enough to pretend he knows.

Scott

 

[Jimmy]

Dupe

 

[Jimmy]

Gold mining has a wholesale trade just the same as any other manufactured product. There is always discount for bulk. Much of this business is cash because no one trusts anyone. Even long term clients and sellers tend to screw eachother. The government there really wants everyone to use the bank but it just isnt safe to do so. You dont know the purity of the gold untill it is refined and the miners need their money to pay expences so they sell at discount. There is always a middle man. The gold comes from the miners and needs to be refined. It is impossible to know the purity untill it is refind so there are steep discounts from the miners depending on how desperate they are for cash. The middle man refines it and resells it to someone else who is generally not the end user. So there is always a discount there too.
I go there a few times a year. Ill take photos.

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

I know it sounds strange but this sort of business happens all the time in Peru. I used to work there and sold my concentrate to guys who did just this. I originally tried to have someone do the extraction and paid them per ton but you can imagine how that went. It was just easier to sell the concentrate. But you can buy just about any amount that your heart desires there. The 2 companies that he named in the first post are companies similar to Brinks in the states. They provide bonded transportation security. One of the best places to buy is the plaza in front of the Central Bank. I forgot the name of the place. But on any day there are people selling gold.
I would never buy ingots or bars. Only foil. It is very hard to put fillers in foil. Most of the sellers will provide you with gram scales, Graduated flasks and nitric acid for you to test density and purity.
Im not saying to buy from the guy but keep an open mind.
You can generally get even better discounts on the gold. Ive seen up to 10% off of spot. But depends on the day and price.

What you just stated, if anything, proves this guy's deal is raw.

There is already in place a market in Puru that deals in gold. It sounds like it's very well established and that if they were serious about selling their gold, that's where they would be.

Remember, he stated the miners cannot even wait two days to get payment on what they are suppose to be producing on a daily basis. He's talking about 50 kilos per day production. Just put that into perspective, that's about 31.1 Ozt per kilo, so 31.1 x 50 = 1605 ounces of gold, then figure 90% ( dore) for quantity of 24k gold aprox, that would be 1444.5 ounces per day. Which at today's spot prices ( 1657.80 x 1444.5 = 2,394,692.1. Aprox. So he is leading us to believe that this group of miners needs over 2 million, per day, and cannot wait more than two days for pay out. This post has been on this site for a few days now, I would be interested to know what his desperate miners are doing, how they are coping with loosing over 2 million per day when it seems to be so important.

It's been my experience, and I have never ever seen anything different, that if you can poke a hole in a deal it needs to be re-thought. If you can poke too many holes it's not a good deal and you should walk. If you can tear the deal apart into tiny little parts it's a scam. This has that smell to it, that stench of scam.

There is already a market available, there is already an outlet that their gold can be sold through, and as you stated the prices seem more than fair for the area.

Gold is not sold this way, gold is so sought after, that the people who are selling it don't need to look for customers. They just simply purchase it to one of the many entities, companies or people who are lined up waiting to purchase it. American's do purchase gold in other countries, but they do so through legit channels unless someone is trying to make a TV show, then it gets blown all out of proportion.

Scott

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

Gold mining has a wholesale trade just the same as any other manufactured product. There is always discount for bulk. Much of this business is cash because no one trusts anyone. Even long term clients and sellers tend to screw eachother. The government there really wants everyone to use the bank but it just isnt safe to do so. You dont know the purity of the gold untill it is refined and the miners need their money to pay expences so they sell at discount. There is always a middle man. The gold comes from the miners and needs to be refined. It is impossible to know the purity untill it is refind so there are steep discounts from the miners depending on how desperate they are for cash. The middle man refines it and resells it to someone else who is generally not the end user. So there is always a discount there too.
I go there a few times a year. Ill take photos.

So you are suggesting it's a legit deal walking around with a suitcase of American Money worth over 2 million, and to purchase gold bars that way in the market you suggested?

No, that's not the way these deals are done, the reason the market is across the street from a trade bank, is so that they can conduct the larger deals, AT THE TRADE BANK.

And where are you going to get 2 million USD in Puru? It's not legal to take that kind of money outside this country in paper form. It would have to be declared.

The gold is sold as Dore, and is assayed for gold percentage. It's not refined into pure bars, not unless they are doing so for the tourist trade, but generally speaking the gold is in dore form. I have been talking with a gentleman who fly's to a South American Country, and brings back a small bar every 2 weeks. Some people thing he has a mine, but he's really purchasing it in the way you are suggesting, but they are small bars, and he wire transfers the money into the sellers trade bank account.

He's talking about 2 million + every day. Put it into perspective and understand what the person posting is actually attempting to sell you as truth. It makes no sense, none at all, I don't believe it even for a second.

Scott